INS Vikramaditya (Adm Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

[sayareakd]

that payment cover Nuclear reactor consultancy payment for Arhinant and for its subsystems, payment for lease nuclear sub and for Gorshkov(including MIG29K). If Russia put in one or two goodies with or without it is worth buy.

 

[bengalraider]

I have one question
The Gorshkov had a boiler room accident earlier which nearly destroyed the ship, can anybody enlighten me as to why we have retained a boiler based powerplant for the vessel(mordenized i know) instead of going with a COGAG or CODAG arrangement like the ADS?

 

[ppgj]

too much of confusion about the date of delivery to the indian navy. some say 2012, some say 2013. now this -

the aircraft carrier which, the sources say, is the best value for money, could arrive at a naval dockyard by 2014.

The Hindu : National : Admiral Gorshkov likely to arrive by 2014

 

[AJSINGH]

I have one question
The Gorshkov had a boiler room accident earlier which nearly destroyed the ship, can anybody enlighten me as to why we have retained a boiler based powerplant for the vessel(mordenized i know) instead of going with a COGAG or CODAG arrangement like the ADS?

can you provide us with the link ( about the boiler indicdent )

 

[bengalraider]

can you provide us with the link ( about the boiler indicdent )

The original commissioning was reportedly delayed due to software bugs in the command and control system. Moreover, a boiler explosion led to it being docked for a year for repairs. If this history were to continue after the ship is commissioned into the Indian Navy, instead of being a prestige toy of India it will become an unstoppable economic drain because of the simple reason that major repairs and maintenance works would obviously be beyond the current technological capability within India.

The Gorshkov Deal: Beyond Economic Considerations | Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses

In 1994, following a boiler room explosion, the ship was docked for a year of repairs. Although she returned to service in 1995, she was finally withdrawn in 1996 and offered for sale.

Soviet aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

She suffered extensive damage in 1994 due to a boiler room explosion and a subsequent fire and was docked at Severodvinsk on 02 February 1994 for refurbishing. After extensive repairs, she was finally put back to sea in 1995. However, she was withdrawn from service in 1996 and was put up for sale.

Kiev Class

 

[s_bman]

India, Russia end stalemate over Gorshkov price deal

MOSCOW: After protracted re-negotiations, India and Russia have ended the stalemate over contentious price and technical issues for the Admiral
Twitter Facebook Share
Email Print Save Comment
Gorshkov aircraft carrier which had become an irritant in bilateral ties.

"There has been excellent progress in negotiations on technical issues and there has been a successful conclusion," foreign secretary Nirupama Rao told reporters at the end of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's talks with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev and Prime Minister Vladimir Putin on the second day of his three-day official visit to Moscow.

Details of the final price fixed for the sale of the aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya were not disclosed. Indian officials said a price satisfactory to both sides has been worked out for the refitting and delivery of Admiral Gorshkov.

Indian and Russian defence officials have been negotiating the price for the purchase of the refurbished USD 2.2-billion aircraft carrier for several years.

Moscow was asking for USD 2.9 billion for the aircraft carrier, nearly thrice the price that was originally agreed between the two sides in 2004. But New Delhi wanted the price to be scaled back to USD 2.1 billion.

Delays in refitting the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier and huge cost overruns have been a particular concern with India. It had also put at unease the otherwise time-tested relationship between the former cold war allies.
India, Russia end stalemate over Gorshkov price deal - India - The Times of India

 

[Vladimir79]

I have one question
The Gorshkov had a boiler room accident earlier which nearly destroyed the ship, can anybody enlighten me as to why we have retained a boiler based powerplant for the vessel(mordenized i know) instead of going with a COGAG or CODAG arrangement like the ADS?

The engines and boilers are being converted to use diesel as well as installing Italian Wirtsila generators. Hope that quells your fears.

 

[bengalraider]

The engines and boilers are being converted to use diesel as well as installing Italian Wirtsila generators. Hope that quells your fears.

I already know that the boilers are going to use diesel(see i said modernized), that doesn't solve the issue,The wartsila engines are going to be used primarily for electrical generation for onboard systems ;the problem is the ship is still going to use the same model of boiler as earlier. If a boiler exploded it is more likely to be an issue with pressure safety systems in the boiler than anything to do with whether the boiler is fired by furnace oil or diesel. boilers are supposed to have automatic pressure release valves that release excess pressure(there is no case of a boiler exploding without pressure exceeding parameters). though i have full faith that the engineers of the IN will be checking all the boiler safety's before commissioning i still feel we should have done away with the boilers for a more modern COGAG arrangement . in fact i have looked it up and it looks plausible with Russian marine turbines only let me explain

the gorshkov's boilers produce around 200,000shp(shaft horsepower energy)now as per wiki

Shaft horsepower (shp) is the power delivered to the propeller shaft of a ship or an aircraft powered by a piston engine or a turbine engine (the combination of turbine engine and propeller commonly called a turboprop). This may be measured, or estimated from the indicated horsepower given a standard figure for the losses in the transmission (typical figures are around 10%). This measure is uncommon in the automobile industry, because drivetrain losses can be significant.

i.e we can assume the boilers actually have a rated hp of 220,000 now in my attached pdf and picture i have shown a Russian gas turbine (M21A) rated at 110,000hp i.e two of these systems could power the gorshkov/vikaramditya
. i do not base anything on only one boiler room accident either another kiev class carrier the novobrissk was and i quote

In 1995 the Novorossiysk hulk, which had suffered a serious engine room fire,[2] was sold for scrapping, and was broken up in 1997 at Pohang, South Korea.

and the minsk

The aircraft carrier Minsk was part of the Soviet Pacific Fleet. It had to be retired as a result of a major accident which could only be repaired at Chernomorski's facility, located in the newly-independent Ukraine

in fact the only Kiev class carrier that was not retired due to any accident was the "Kiev" itself , all the rest had some problem or the other. India is already going to be using Gas turbines for the ADS we should have done so on the gorshkov as well.

Note: all information pasted from wikipedia

 

[enlightened1]

India will get Gorshkov in good shape: Russian envoy​

http://in.news.yahoo.com/139/20091214/808/tnl-india-will-get-gorshkov-in-good-shap.html​

http://in.news.yahoo.com/139/20091214/808/tnl-india-will-get-gorshkov-in-good-shap.htmlhttp://in.news.yahoo.com/139/20091214/808/tnl-india-will-get-gorshkov-in-good-shap.html

Mon, Dec 14 05:20 PM

New Delhi, Dec.14 (ANI): It's official now. After India, Russia has also confirmed that problems relating to the price of the aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov has been sorted out, and it will be delivered to India in a good shape.

Talking to reporters here, new Russian envoy Alexander Kadakin said: "The pricing talks is successful and is sorted out, Gorshkov will be supplied to India in a very good shape as razor edge technology as India wants".

The Russian envoy further said:"We are building a new heart into a middle-aged gentleman Gorshkov, which will be called VikramAditya".

The pricing of the Admiral Gorshkov has been a contentious issue in the India-Russia strategic relationship for almost six years.

A deal for purchasing the ship was signed in Januray 2004. The original price was pegged at 974 million dollars, but in November 2007, Russia asked India to pay 1.2 billion USD, and this year, pushed it up to 2.2 billion USD. The eventual cost was pegged at a whopping 2.9 billion USD, which was almost three times the original cost.

Refusing to divulge the final price at which the deal has been struck, Ambassador Kadakin said unnecessary hype has been created over the deal.

Speculation suggests that the final price will be settled at 2.5 billion USD.

The price Issue is believed to have been resolved during Prime MInister Manmohan Singh's recent visit to Moscow.

Both countries signed seven agreements, including a historic broad-based umbrella agreement on the peaceful use of nuclear energy.

According to Ambassador Kadakin, Russia will also supply a new batch of Sukhois. There was also progress on a probable purchase of medium-range transport planes, he added.

By Naveen Kapoor (ANI)

 

[bhramos]

What ever IN gets [ INS Vikramaditya] is the best piece of the Russia and its naval designs and engineering ,
but, India is main Investor of Russian equipment and developments of left equipments of left USSR developments like K-100,Bhramos-II , MTA....... so on....

 

[abhi]

Gorshkov price is settled with Russia at $2.3 billion

The price of aircraft carrier Gorshkov has been finally settled at US $2.3 billion.

Notwithstanding some bitterness, the Indian side finally agreed to pay this price after being told by the Prime Minister's Office that the high level of friendship with Russia has to be maintained and an agreement had to be worked out, preferably before Manmohan Singh left for Moscow Dec 6.

That was indeed done on the morning of Dec 4, Navy Day, with a visiting Russian delegation, according to the latest issue of India Strategic defence magazine. Defence ministry officials refused to comment on the development.

The Indian side had asked for some additional onboard equipment at least as part of the increased price, but within that price, which the Russians agreed to. Details of that were still being finalized with the Russians 10 days later in the Indian capital.

The original agreement with the Russians signed in 2004 was for $974 million for the carrier's refurbishment and upgrade, Gorshkov itself being offered free of cost. The delivery was then set for 2008.

In 2007, Rosoboronexport, the sole Russian agency responsible for selling and exporting weapon systems, indicated a delay in the delivery of the carrier. In 2008, it demanded an additional $1.2 billion in writing saying it had made mistakes in calculations and that it had to many more miles of wiring for instance than it had originally thought.

After that, during the negotiations to settle the dispute arising from this new demand, Rosoboronexport representatives mentioned varying figures asking for still more money, taking the cost of the carrier to $2.9 billion.

Rising prices of oil, which is consumed during the trials, was among the reasons quoted for this second revision of the Gorshkov cost.

The Indian side had agreed to consider the written request for additional $1.2 billion but declined to entertain anything above that.

Well placed sources from Moscow told India Strategic that the Russian government asked Rosoboronexport to come down to $2.4 billion and it also submitted a letter in this regard to the Indian Navy's negotiating team.

Finally, India agreed to pay a total of $2.3 billion but with a request for some additional equipment, and the Russians agreed to that.

India has also agreed for delivery of the carrier, which the Navy urgently needs, by 2012 without any penalty.

It may be noted that the Russian government paid the Sevmash shipyard, which is doing the repair work on Gorshkov, $250 million as credit to ensure that the work did not stop. India had paid $600 million at the time of the contract, and another $122 million in August this year.

India has already paid more than $600 million for 16 Mig 29K carrier borne aircraft, the first four of which have been delivered at the INS Hansa, the naval base in Goa.

The Indian Navy has asked for 29 more Mig 29Ks, the proposal for which has been cleared by the government. An order is likely to be placed soon.

These deals, although related to the Gorshkov, are separate and the Mig 29K aircraft will operate from both the Gorshkov and India's first indigenous aircraft carrier now under construction at the Kochi shipyard in southern India.

There has been no official confirmation of the price from either side but Russian sources said that the agreed price was "close to what the Indian Navy wanted".

The Indian prime minister's delegation did announce though from Moscow that the agreement over the price had been reached.

"We do not know if the two sides shared some vodka over the deal, but there is goodwill between the negotiators on both the sides following the conclusion of the price," said an informed source.

:goodstuff::twizt:

Gorshkov price is settled with Russia at $2.3 billion- Hindustan Times

 

[nitesh]

now can any body guess what those additional equipments are?

 

[bengalraider]

now can any body guess what those additional equipments are?

would be great if we could fit the RIF-M on board

RIF-M

Naval Air Defense System -

The RIF-M system provides protection against threats at altitudes from sea level up to 90,000 feet and at ranges from 7 to 150 km. One of the missiles used with the system is the 48H6E2, which is similar to the type used in the Favorit missile defense system and has a warhead weight of 180 kg. Another option is the 9M96E, which is similar to the missile used by the ground based S-300PMU-2 (Favorit).

These missiles have a range of 2 to 40 km, and are capable of defeating targets from sea level to 70,000 feet. The 9M96E has a smaller yet highly potent warhead, weighing 24 kg. RIF-M can fire missiles at 4 second intervals when engaging one or more targets. The typical interval between missile firings is 2-4 seconds.
RIF-M Naval Air Defense System - Russia

 

[SATISH]

Well I thought we were going for the BARAK-8 system on all our ships...and later replaced by Barak- NG

 

[neo29]

This carrier was given as a free gift .. and india spent 750 mill $ in it for upgradation . so from free gift to 2.3 bill $.
I dont think india has ever been taken for a ride this far . this is history in making.
rather our politicians put 2.3 bill $ into putting the 3 indigeneous aircraft carriers into fast track we can get all the 3 inducted by 2011.
what eats me is we paying so much for a second hand ship. its like buying old maruti esteem and putting honda city engine in it . whats the use . rather we cud have made a new one on our own which we are doing?
mistakes are learnt from .. not repeated.

 

[neo29]

the indigenous acc's were started when we knew gorshkov is gonna delay. so we cud have invested this money b4 / during the decision of buying gorshkov. if that happened we cud have had the acc's that scheduled for 2014-15 around 2 3 years earlier.
this deal sounds like one of those indian companies that give u a free gift deal and then end up making u buy it.
assuming technologically gorkshkov may be good but it has a very old hull .. how many years do u think it can run ? rather am proud of the indigineous aircraft carrier we making. gorshkov is just a mistake we need to live with

 

[nitesh]

neo29 buddy have u seen this thread or not? The carrier is going to last for 30 years minimum. And do understand that Gorshakov deal is not an indivivual deal it is combination of lot of weapon system (hint : akula 2 submarine, MiG 29K, and hidden consultation on ATV) Please go through ATV thread to know about it. Hence before blindly criticizing please look in whole prespective.

 

[bhramos]

Did Adm Gorshkov have or will be fitted with This type Air Defence Guns.

 

[enlightened1]

one of the best CIWS in the world... already installed on many Indian warships

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIEioMy5EU0

 

[nitesh]

some thing is not right:

Sevmash needs more workers - BarentsObserver