INS Vikramaditya (Adm Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

[nirranj]

 

[nirranj]

 

[sayareakd]

Russians who are testing Vikramaditya must be envy of giving it to India.

 

[nirranj]

A P-3 orion flies over Vicky... Bit old.. June 2012...

kuleshovoleg: "Друзья" не спят. INS Vikramaditya.

 

[nirranj]

 

[Crusader53]

Russians who are testing Vikramaditya must be envy of giving it to India.

Russia is also getting the Mig-29K's plus it already has a bigger Aircraft Carrier than the Vikramaditya. So, what's to envy???


Respectfully

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Bigger does not mean always better..

===============

Admiral kuznetsov miss lots of things that newly re-make Vikramaditya has..

1. Better deck layout.
2. Better maneuverability.
3. Better communications.
4. New latest electronics and navigation.

It was said, If IN do not accept Gorshokov then they will use in there own fleet, They never intend to re-sell it, there crew likes it..

Russia is also getting the Mig-29K's plus it already has a bigger Aircraft Carrier than the Vikramaditya. So, what's to envy???

Respectfully

 

[lookieloo]

Bigger does not mean always better..

===============

Admiral kuznetsov miss lots of things that newly re-make Vikramaditya has..

1. Better deck layout.
2. Better maneuverability.
3. Better communications.
4. New latest electronics and navigation.

I'll give you the benefit-of-doubt on all but #1. The Viky has major limitations in its deck layout compared to the Kuznetsov-class...

-It has only one, very-small elevator capable of lifting fighters, and it's mid-deck (Kuznetsov has two proper deck-edge lifts),
-It has no blast deflectors (one can make-do without, but it's not ideal),
-Because of the ship's original function, the island is oversized and awkwardly-placed (again, one can make-do, but it's still not ideal)
-The hanger-deck is rather small relative to the ship's overall size

Note that most (if not all) of the above mentioned issues will eliminated with IAC-1.

 

[sayareakd]

Russia is also getting the Mig-29K's plus it already has a bigger Aircraft Carrier than the Vikramaditya. So, what's to envy???


Respectfully

Having two AC is always better than having one.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

IAC is new, thought out Indian carrier as per Indian demands on other hand Vikramaditya is a remake..

- It does have two elevators, pics are posted in the thread only or you can just google with key words..
- Not needed, It works fine without it..
- Island is fine, as long as Aircraft can parked in so does take off and land..
- Hanger deck is modified too, to hold 15-20 fighter & helos..

Vikramaditya has ability to hold fighters over her front deck unlike Kuznetsov, which incease its carrying capacity compare to Kuznetsov on deck..

I'll give you the benefit-of-doubt on all but #1. The Viky has major limitations in its deck layout compared to the Kuznetsov-class...

-It has only one, very-small elevator capable of lifting fighters, and it's mid-deck (Kuznetsov has two proper deck-edge lifts),
-It has no blast deflectors (one can make-do without, but it's not ideal),
-Because of the ship's original function, the island is oversized and awkwardly-placed (again, one can make-do, but it's still not ideal)
-The hanger-deck is rather small relative to the ship's overall size

Note that most (if not all) of the above mentioned issues will eliminated with IAC-1.

 

[lookieloo]

IAC is new, thought out Indian carrier as per Indian demands on other hand Vikramaditya is a remake..

- It does have two elevators, pics are posted in the thread only or you can just google with key words..
- Not needed, It works fine without it..
- Island is fine, as long as Aircraft can parked in so does take off and land..
- Hanger deck is modified too, to hold 15-20 fighter & helos..

Vikramaditya has ability to hold fighters over her front deck unlike Kuznetsov, which incease its carrying capacity compare to Kuznetsov on deck..

You're trying too hard.

- Only one of the Viky's elevators is rated for the Mig-29K's weight; the other is only good for helicopters.
- Every other navy operating conventional fixed-wing fighters seems to think blast-deflectors are needed (or at least a good idea).
- Yes, island placement is "fine," but it remains sub-optimal.
- 15-20 is decent, but for comparison, France's carrier (a slightly smaller ship) can hanger 20-25... and the Rafale-M's wings don't even fold.

As for deck-parking on the Viky's bow... remember those blast-deflectors you said weren't needed? Kuznetsov can park those planes behind the starboard launch-position without the need to back-taxi prior to takeoff.

Stop trying to make this thing out to somehow be better than a purpose-built carrier... because it's not. Adequate? Yes. Superior? No. Only professionalism/skill will make up for the shortcomings.

 

[pmaitra]

I largely agree.

- Yes, island placement is "fine," but it remains sub-optimal.

The island couldn't be in a better position than where it is now. The deck was extended on the starboard side, and it looks like the island is in the middle of the deck. It is not. One look at the pictures of the Baku will tell it is indeed close to optimal, if not optimal.

Stop trying to make this thing out to somehow be better than a purpose-built carrier... because it's not. Adequate? Yes. Superior? No. Only professionalism/skill will make up for the shortcomings.

True, it is not a purpose built aircraft carrier. I keep saying this again and again. It is essentially a tactical aviation cruiser, modified to function as an aircraft carrier. It is not the best for its size, and I wouldn't expect it to be.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

- Can you provide any link, Why so ?
- That is because of the design they have to use blast deflectors..
- Again its modified as per need, It would be better 20-25 but again have 15 as per need will do the job..
- Look again at the design, The aircraft aren't parked exactly behind the exhaust of others, Deck is angled and the marking on deck is not the same as seen on Chinese and Russian CV..

- Only one of the Viky's elevators is rated for the Mig-29K's weight; the other is only good for helicopters.
- Every other navy operating conventional fixed-wing fighters seems to think blast-deflectors are needed (or at least a good idea).
- 15-20 is decent, but for comparison, France's carrier (a slightly smaller ship) can hanger 20-25... and the Rafale-M's wings don't even fold.

As for deck-parking on the Viky's bow... remember those blast-deflectors you said weren't needed? Kuznetsov can park those planes behind the starboard launch-position without the need to back-taxi prior to takeoff.

============================
============================

Debate then, Go technical will reply ..

You're trying too hard.

Stop trying to make this thing out to somehow.

 

[pmaitra]

Let us wait for the launch of our IAC and we will have more pictures. I think we can open a thread comparing Vikramaditya and IAC. Granted it won't be apples and oranges, but we sure will have a lot of opportunities for brainstorming.

 

[Payeng]

Let us wait for the launch of out IAC and we will have more pictures. I think we can open a thread comparing Vikramaditya and IAC. Granted it won't be apples and oranges, but we sure will have a lot of opportunities for brainstorming.

I was thinking something about something similar, their are rumors about Russian future aircraft carriers and a few pictures of models are around.

I heard that they are evaluating three models ... the following maybe two of the three possible models.

Model 1.
STOBAR angled deck with CATOBAR hybrid design

Model 2.
A double angled deck design.

Model 3.
No idea

 

[pmaitra]

@Payeng, please open a new thread. I would like a discussion on future Russian AC trends. We cannot have it in this thread though.

 

[lookieloo]

- Can you provide any link, Why so ?
- That is because of the design they have to use blast deflectors..
- Again its modified as per need, It would be better 20-25 but again have 15 as per need will do the job..
- Look again at the design, The aircraft aren't parked exactly behind the exhaust of others, Deck is angled and the marking on deck is not the same as seen on Chinese and Russian CV..

- R Vikramaditya [ex-Gorshkov] ...... INS Vikramaditya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
- Carriers are mostly designed with blast deflectors because that's the best way to configure a deck; Viky's configuration is a workaround.
- Actually modified as per limitations of the original design.
- Already explained that to someone else months ago on this very thread, the other configuration is still better for reasons stated in last.

Oh, and I'll add commentary whenever the hell I feel like it (just like everyone else here). >>> While I do think India is getting its money's worth out of Vikramaditya, I also feel that the Indian penchant for recycling may have been taken a bit too far in this case.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

From your source >>

Under the modernization plan, the 20-ton capacity elevator beside the ship's island superstructure will remain unchanged, but the aft lift will be enlarged and its lift capacity increased to 30 tons.

R Vikramaditya [ex-Gorshkov]

^^

MIG-29 loaded weight is 15,300 kg (33,730 lb) MIG-29K weightr lesser as use of composite airframe instead of metal, from both did you made your previous claim up ?

==============================

- Understand design of ship`s deck..
- That is what is told in previous post, read back..
- Flawed ..

As a mod i would advice you be claim and post on .. :cool2:

- R Vikramaditya [ex-Gorshkov] ...... INS Vikramaditya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
- Carriers are mostly designed with blast deflectors because that's the best way to configure a deck; Viky's configuration is a workaround.
- Actually modified as per limitations of the original design.
- Already explained that to someone else months ago on this very thread, the other configuration is still better for reasons stated in last.

Oh, and I'll add commentary whenever the hell I feel like it (just like everyone else here). >>> While I do think India is getting its money's worth out of Vikramaditya, I also feel that the Indian penchant for recycling may have been taken a bit too far in this case.

 

[lookieloo]

MIG-29 loaded weight is 15,300 kg (33,730 lb) MIG-29K weightr lesser as use of composite airframe instead of metal, from both did you made your previous claim up ?

Oh yes, that's right; ramp-launched planes can't be fully loaded. :thumb: In any case, do let us know when you have pics of both elevators being used for the Migs.

 

[arnabmit]

MiGs touch down on the Vikramaditya's deck | idrw.org

SOURCE: INDRUS

The final phase of tests on the INS Vikramaditya commenced on Monday, August 5, with a joint practice mission involving naval aircraft from Russia's Northern Fleet. The mission, in which MiG-29s performed several approaches at different altitudes and a touchdown on the aircraft carrier's deck, was led by RSK MiG chief pilot Mikhail Belyayev.

Around this time a year ago, Belyayev flew over the Vikramaditya's deck together with test pilot Nikolai Diorditsa, who has been accorded the Hero of the Russian Federation title. The test pilots flew 517 sorties – including 41 landings and 41 take-offs from the aircraft carrier's deck – in July and August 2012, testing the aircraft, the fuelling and flight support equipment, the aircraft lifts, its launch assist systems and arresting gear.

Overall, the commissioning team had no complaints about the work of the aircraft wing or the operation of the ship's support systems. Representatives of the Indian Navy were also satisfied. But the testing wasn't completed in full; night-time take-offs and landings did not take place, for example, because of a serious failure of the ship's power plant. The fire-proof protection of all eight boilers gave in to extreme temperatures.

As a result, the aircraft carrier was returned to Sevmash last autumn to undergo a complicated nine-month overhaul with assistance from representatives of the Baltic Shipyard (where the boilers were manufactured). The deadline was duly met, and the aircraft carrier, complete with repaired boilers, sailed into the White Sea on July 3. The ship passed every other trial a day before Navy Day and developed the top speed of 29.3 knots under regular load at full displacement.

According to earlier plans, the full testing cycle involving an aircraft wing and maritime training for the Indian crew is scheduled for completion by October 15. After that, one month will be allotted to eliminate any minor flaws. The INS Vikramaditya should be handed over to the Indian Navy in November.

Delay in air defence system

The Vikramaditya will have to wait another 3 years for a air defence weapon, The New Indian Express reported on Monday.

The delay in getting the Long Range Surface-to-Air Missile or LR-SAM will be at the Indian end, the paper said, adding that India decided to develop it jointly with Israel and the project is facing delays.

The aircraft carrier will be retrofitted with a Russian-origin AK-630 rapid fire gun, during its first and immediate refit on arrival in India, the paper said.