INS Chakra/Akula II

[p2prada]

Propellers are covered for protection against rust and heat. Nothing to do with state secrets.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Those props that are really exotic or needs to be guarded are covered quite well from prying eyes as you have posted those two pictures.

@Austin,
Its no secret about propellers of Akula Sub there are few on net BUT as Indian Navy Akula`s are updated and its known about its propeller, IN gone for some new deign for propellers which must be important for Indian net-citizen related to defense to hide it as state secrecy..

These new propeller can be 7 blades. 5 blades or etc, As its a Indian boat and a very important assets, The pics you posted was of Indian so I hided it..

 

[Austin]

If you have ever interacted with Submariners of Indian Navy and I had the previliged to interact with both the T-209 and Kilo commander and crew they would tell you that propellors pictures or videos really do not have an impact or revel any secret , much like you cant look at a stealth aircraft with your eyes and can judge its rcs , in the same way you can look at a prop and judge its performance.

Any way here is a nice video on Sindurakshak and you will see the propellors of Sindurakshak as it gets repaired in docks

Индийская субмарина "Синдуракшак" покинула эллинг - YouTube

 

[vishwaprasad]

DD, may be its posted but this matter, It just not some regular boat, this is Indian navy Nuclear boat..

I may sound paranoid but i have reason to be..


I also have huge collection of photos but i dont publish them if it danger security of personal or material..

+1. Totally agreed

 

[Kunal Biswas]

If you have ever interacted with Submariners of Indian Navy and I had the previliged to interact with both the T-209 and Kilo commander and crew they would tell you that propellors pictures or videos really do not have an impact or revel any secret , much like you cant look at a stealth aircraft with your eyes and can judge its rcs , in the same way you can look at a prop and judge its performance.

Any way here is a nice video on Sindurakshak and you will see the propellors of Sindurakshak as it gets repaired in docks

Индийская субмарина "Синдуракшак" покинула эллинг - YouTube

I would highly disagree on that if they say so, If they did send me some contact in my PM so i will chat with them personally..

You cannot compare export Kilo class to the Nuclear Akula class..

 

[p2prada]

Orion class propellers

Improved Los Angeles class propellers

Virginia class - Latest sub from the US

 

[Austin]

The virginia pumpjet model is certainly wrong , Virginia pumpjet has never been pictured in open and the model does not show a pumpjet but a ducted propeller.

 

[p2prada]

The virginia pumpjet model is certainly wrong , Virginia pumpjet has never been pictured in open and the model does not show a pumpjet but a ducted propeller.

Hmm, is that so. But yeah, it is not pumpjet.

This one is, it's on one of the Triomphant subs.

 

[p2prada]

Some more.

Borei class

Type 212

Scorpene/S-80

I think there is a seven blade version too.

Chinese Song class

 

[Drsomnath999]

well i dont think showing propeller blades pics in a submarine in the internet would enable any signature discloser .well it's the realtime motion & sound produced by the propeller blades in water which is more important .

 

[vishwaprasad]

^^ whatever...nobody is noticing KB's CONCERN for the security OUR NATION

 

[Austin]

P2P , The Le Triomphant class is certainly pumpjet propulsion and the pictures shown above they have actually covered it from prying eyes

The Borei model is the official one which Rubin displayed it in some conference , ofcourse the model has some deliberate mistakes in sail and pumpjet design

 

[p2prada]

I wouldn't disagree. Seawolf/Virginia, Borei and Triomphant are not old enough.

 

[Austin]

To give an idea how challenging it is to track an Akula sub even for a very vastly superior US and NATO ASW community to quote Commander Leo Murphy who was operations officer to Commander, Iceland ASW Group

To Catch A Quite One

Russian advances in submarine quieting are well documented, but published estimates tend to emphasize a general impact on overall noise levels. 6 If we consider the submarine's median detection range (MDR)—the distance at which there exists a 50% probability of target detection on a single sonobuoy—we get a more accurate illustration of the challenge: Russian submarine MDRs are only a third of what they were ten years ago. Search patterns that once were spaced several miles apart today are spaced in yards. Individual sonobuoy contact time that once was measured in minutes now is measured in seconds. Reduced MDRs also have made dual aircraft operations nearly mandatory to increase the probability of detection on large-area search patterns to acceptable levels. It also is important to note that the high-speed capabilities of Russian submarines are of less concern to the ASW tactician, because MDRs increase significantly as speed increases. Slow-speed operations, however, are lethal. The MPA community myth regarding the short MDR Russian submarine may be somewhat inflated, but no one, including our allies, tracks an Akula class submarine at patrol speeds for long.

 

[p2prada]

From the article,

Our allies continue to be amused by our attempts to use nuclear tactics against the modern diesel submarine.

Diesel-electrics are more quieter after all.

As we seek to measure our ASW effectiveness and preserve our slim ASW margin of superiority,

So, Russian capability in detection vis a vis American capability isn't very wide.

 

[john70]

Just few days back there was a news of ACTUV : Automated Submarine Stalker : US defence research agency DARPA has awarded a contract to Science Applications International Corporation (SAIC) to develop an unmanned vessel that will track and quell the threat of a quiet diesel-electric submarine cruising near national waters.

The ACTUV would not detect the submarine, but would relieve ASW forces of the task of keeping tabs on the boat once it has been picked up.

It will track a quiet diesel-electric submarine overtly for months over thousands of kilometers with minimal human input.

At-sea testing of an operational prototype is planned for mid-2015.

It is a "ferrari" following a "truck" to keeps it track.

This is the future of ASW.

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/naval-warfare/40705-actuv-automated-submarine-stalker.html#post562055

 

[Kunal Biswas]

To give an idea how challenging it is to track an Akula sub even for a very vastly superior US and NATO ASW community to quote Commander Leo Murphy who was operations officer to Commander, Iceland ASW Group

Thanks, very interesting but bit old article ( 1997 )..

I am sure now in 2012 there are measure to track such subs, No wonder IN requested deep update of Nepra as per Indian needs..

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USN talking lesson from previous incident and practices improve ASW capability of its Ships and Airborne capability, Such as P8I..

In this way as for we Indians we got one of the best SSN from Russia and One of the best ASW platform..

It will be great when both are face off in drills, Will be great opportunity for us to learn about flaws and advantages and then use it for our own developments....

 

[Austin]

Submarine ASW is very complex and quitening of sub is one of the key parameter among the equally important few other.

US-Russia Detection/ASW capability reduced a lot after Victor 3 SSN came into picture , Akula-1 narrowed the gap to a very narrow margin and Three plus generation Akula-2 gave Russia narrow lead in quitening over the lastest sub at that time which was late model Improved LA class , Akula-2 also equalled 4th ggeneration US subs in other key parameter like Depth and Weapons capability but lagged a bit in quietining when compared to US 4th Gen Sub which was Seawolf and Virginia , both SeaWolf and Virginia has similar quitening but the latter is cheaper and some what less capable in blue water warfare but is better than Seawolf in Littoral environment.

With the Yasen Class SSGN , Russia quitening capability will be on par or better than US 4th gen subs according to many informed western observers.

Rubin has disclosed that Boeri SSBN would be atleast 5 times quiter than Akula-1/Oscar-2 class submarine and Yasen would be many time more but it would be twice as costly as Borei so all this capability comes with a steep price tag and enormous national capability invested into it.

One area where Russian had advatnage even when their subs were acoustically not on par with Western submarine was Non-Acoustic means of detection.
Not much is known and it has been a very closely guarded secret on how it works. Since passive means of detection has now come down to few hundred meters over couple of Km in 80's due to quitening in Subs ....Non Acoustic means of detection is a key area for submarine detection and tracking.

Even Indian Chakra lacks the SOKS Non-Acoustic sensors seen on Russian Submarine plus they also lack the MG-74 decoys tubes that Russian Submarine have.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Even Indian Chakra lacks the SOKS Non-Acoustic sensors seen on Russian Submarine plus they also lack the MG-74 decoys tubes that Russian Submarine have.

Can you provide more detail on this ?

 

[p2prada]

Then we gotta buy it. Two for each Pakistani sub...