INS Chakra/Akula II

[bengalraider]

buying is not allowed but is leashing is allowed? i want to know about i akula class submarine leashed by russia to india ,how so ? what are conditions on leashing a nuclear powered submarine.

if we can one submarine on leash of akula type then we can get other also

Primary condition in leasing a Nuclear Submarine being we cannot fiddle with the reactor at all,(at least on paper) no nuclear fuel can be removed from the reactor and the reactor itself and the controls will be subject to checks by the leasing country(in this case the Russians), also the owning nation remains liable for any nuclear mishap on board the vessel unless it is conclusively found to be due to human error by the leasing nation.

 

[bengalraider]

we could actually ask french for help in making scorpene nuclear powered....we have the expertise and nuclear reactor...all we need is a little design change n voila r very own nuclear sub...without violating any treaties, in short span of time n i guess french have no problem if its SSBN or SSGN they love money....

Good point , in fact the Brazilians are already well into building a nuclear powered scorpene with the french building the enlarged hull based upon the scorpene design and also fitting all electronics and weapons systems, however as per the NPT regulations the Brazilians will have to build and install their own reactor power plant in the hull, though the french will provide consultancy and help in installing the same.

a model of the Future Brazilian Nuclear Scorpene.

 

[Param]

Good point , in fact the Brazilians are already well into building a nuclear powered scorpene with the french building the enlarged hull based upon the scorpene design and also fitting all electronics and weapons systems, however as per the NPT regulations the Brazilians will have to build and install their own reactor power plant in the hull, though the french will provide consultancy and help in installing the same.

a model of the Future Brazilian Nuclear Scorpene.

Earlier,I used to think that the reason India bought scorpenes is that those subs can be fitted with a small nuclear reactor.

 

[sayareakd]

Earlier,I used to think that the reason India bought scorpenes is that those subs can be fitted with a small nuclear reactor.

even French was advertising it that way.

 

[SATISH]

Well I thought the Scorpene was derived from the Rubin class submarine.

 

[sayareakd]

get this SSBN from Russia on lease and then use own missiles (non nukes) that will be enough for us.

 

[SATISH]

get this SSBN from Russia on lease and then use own missiles (non nukes) that will be enough for us.

Whoa man! it is one huge sub and needs a huge complement of officers and Russia will be putting it in reserve and no way is going to dismantle it yet. We can wait for one more decade for that to happen.

 

[Armand2REP]

They will be scrapped, no question about it. Average age is 30 years old, no missiles for it and are in horrible condition. The Dmitriy Donskoy is the only one that can get underway, is the oldest and pretty much done as a test platform. Cost to maintain and run is twice as high as other SSBNs. They talk about adding cruise missiles but they have nothing to put on it and the time and cost to refit is unacceptable.

 

[Armand2REP]

Earlier,I used to think that the reason India bought scorpenes is that those subs can be fitted with a small nuclear reactor.

It has to have a hull extension for either AIP or nuke reactor. You can't just drop one in the legacy Scorpene.

 

[Param]

It has to have a hull extension for either AIP or nuke reactor. You can't just drop one in the legacy Scorpene.

Extended hull for AIP? So what does that mean for Indian Navy's plan for including AIP in scorpene in the future. Would they have to tear the sub open that takes another decade?

 

[Neil]

Good point , in fact the Brazilians are already well into building a nuclear powered scorpene with the french building the enlarged hull based upon the scorpene design and also fitting all electronics and weapons systems, however as per the NPT regulations the Brazilians will have to build and install their own reactor power plant in the hull, though the french will provide consultancy and help in installing the same.

a model of the Future Brazilian Nuclear Scorpene.

absolutely...it will be very cost effective considering the amount of money that is required for R&D n then construction...

BR sir...even for the nuclear reactors if we throw extras dollars we can get a reactor from either russians or french - money matters not NPT after all...

 

[Armand2REP]

Extended hull for AIP? So what does that mean for Indian Navy's plan for including AIP in scorpene in the future. Would they have to tear the sub open that takes another decade?

The ones they are converting to AIP are getting the hull extension into the build. The first ones will be conventional. That is the problem with IN being wishy-washy in requirements. To make the conventionals AIP, they would have to be unwielded and replace the engine compartment with the longer one.

 

[bengalraider]

absolutely...it will be very cost effective considering the amount of money that is required for R&D n then construction...

BR sir...even for the nuclear reactors if we throw extras dollars we can get a reactor from either russians or french - money matters not NPT after all...

We also got a lot of help from the Russians with "Arihant" however we wanted our own design to be an SSBN as well as a totally unique design whose capabilities would be a secret(as they are till date), the Brazilians are content with having a SSN scorpene whose capabilities can be pretty much judged by any nation that operates a regular scorpene.Different thought patterns require different approaches.
Also
What makes you think we already haven't tried to buy Naval reactors from the Russians or the french before?
Also don't you think if naval reactors were for sale half the world would be running nuclear boats by now?The Koreans and the Aussies also have enough cash you know, not to mention the Saudis and the emiratis!

 

[nrj]

No plans to retire Typhoon class subs soon - Russian military


A high-ranking source in the Russian Defense Ministry has denied rumors of a planned scrapping of Typhoon class strategic submarines in the near future.

Several media sources reported recently that the Russian military had decided to scrap the world's largest nuclear-powered subs by 2014.

"The Defense Ministry has not made such a decision. The submarines remain in service with the Navy," the official told RIA Novosti on Thursday.

The Typhoon class submarines entered service with the Soviet Navy in the 1980s. Three of the six vessels built are still in use.

The Dmitry Donskoy submarine has been modernized as a test platform for Russia's newBulava submarine-launched ballistic missile and will remain in this capacity for a long time, the source said.

Two reserve vessels, the Arkhangelsk and the Severstal, are awaiting overhaul at a naval base in Severodvinsk in northern Russia.

"The problem is that they do not have the arsenal of R-39 [SS-N-20 Sturgeon] submarine-launched ballistic missiles anymore, as the production of these missiles in Ukraine stopped in 1991," the source said.
The Typhoon class subs have a maximum displacement of 33,800 tons and were built to carry 20 SS-N-20 SLBMs, all of which have been retired.

Nevertheless, these subs will most likely be modernized to carry new-generation sea-based cruise missiles to match the U.S. Ohio-class submarines.

 

[Armand2REP]

Nevertheless, these subs will most likely be modernized to carry new-generation sea-based cruise missiles to match the U.S. Ohio-class submarines.

What missile would that be?

 

[SpArK]

Russia to lease N-submarine to India in November

Moscow: A Russian nuclear submarine, in which 20 people were accidentally killed during a sea trial in 2008, will be leased to India in November, a Russian defence industry source said Tuesday. The delivery will make India only the sixth to operate nuclear-powered submarines after France, China, Russia, Britain and the US.


The Nerpa was to have been leased in 2008 but the transfer was put on hold after a fatal mishap three years ago, when a freon gas fire suppressant system was accidentally set off. The $650 million lease contract was signed in 2004.


The source said all the defects "will have been eliminated before November, after which the Nerpa will be transferred to Delhi".


In late September, a jury dropped negligence charges against the Nerpa's captain Dmitry Lavrentyev and engineer Dmitry Grobov. They were charged with professional negligence resulting in death or injury for allegedly setting off the sub's fire safety system "without authorization and for no reason". The Nerpa had 208 people aboard.




Manorama Online | Russia to lease N-submarine to India in November

 

[pmaitra]

MODs, could you please merge another related thread with this one?

http://defenceforumindia.com/global-defence/25644-future-akulas-doubt.html

Let me clear the confusion.

Project 941: USSR/RF Akula (Акула) = NATO Typhoon.
Project 971: USSR/RF Shchuka-B (Щука-Б) = NATO Akula.

References:
Akula class submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Typhoon class submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, let us make sure what we are talking about, because NATO nomenclature is wrong:

Akula:

Shchuka-B:

 

[pmaitra]

Wrong Akula... Akula is Russian designate for the NATO Typhoon SSBN. The Akula you are looking for is the NATO designated Akula SSN.

Armand2REP, that indeed is the correct Akula. We are talking about Soviet/Russian submarines, so Soviet/Russian nomenclature is correct and NATO nomenclature is wrong. NATO calls the Shchuka-B as Akula, which is wrong. Please see my other post. In the Russian Navy, there is nothing called Typhoon.

 

[Koovie]

Finally: Nerpa nuclear submarine sets sail from Russia for India

Russia has handed over a new nuclear powered submarine armed with torpedos and cruise missiles to India and the vessel has set sail for home with a mixed crew of Indian and Russian sailors.

The Akula class nuclear attack submarine on a ten year lease to the Indian Navy left its base on the Pacific coast earlier this week, bound for India, RIA Novosti and Interfax news agencies reported.

With the expected induction of Nerpa by year-end, it will be after 19 years that the Indian Navy would have a nuclear submarine in its fleet.

India's indigenous nuclear submarine INS Arihant is presently undergoing sea test trials.

However, an official of the shipyard said that the submarine was still undergoing final sea trials. The Russian Navy's Pacific Command refused to comment.

Reports said that the Nerpa submarine which has been re-christened INS Chakra leased at a cost of USD 650 million is accompanied by Russian instructors, who will help Indian naval crew to bring it to the new port of deployment.

"The Nerpa has not been yet handed over to the Indian Navy," an official of the Amur Shipyard in Russia's far eastern Khabarovsk region said over phone.

"Presently the joint Indian-Russian naval crew is completing the combat training on the high seas," the shipyard official added.

But experts here do not rule out that the Russian Navy wants to formally hand over Nerpa to the Indian Navy on the Indian coast and the so-called training mission could be a cover for security reasons.

The submarine has been handed over two years after an accident onboard during testing killed 20 people. The Amur shipyard, the builders of the sub said the vessel was now completely retrofitted after the November 2008 accident

Russia's Akula-II class submarine is considered to be the quietest nuclear submarine and during its trials by the Russian Navy since January its acoustic noises have been further reduced by the Amur Shipyard, which was initially to deliver the submarine in 2007.

 

[maomao]

Great News!!!!!!