INS Chakra/Akula II

[Galaxy]

It's very old news (more than 1 year). All latest news related with Nerpa already posted. I don't see anything new in the above news.


Aug 20, 2010

Nerpa nuclear submarine sets sail from Russia for India - Brahmand.com



India to get nuclear submarine Nerpa by year-end

MOSCOW, July 31, 2011​

Russia will transfer the Akula-II class 'Nerpa' nuclear attack submarine to India on a 10-year lease by the end of 2011, Russian Naval Chief Vladimir Vysotsky has said.

"There are no obstacles for the transfer of the submarine to the Indian Navy by the end of this year," Admiral Vysotsky was quoted as saying by Interfax. He said the Indian crew had undergone the full course of training and the submarine was being prepared for delivery trials.

Under the lease contract, estimated to be between $650 million and $900 million, India had funded the completion of the Nerpa nuclear submarine at Amur Shipyard before the Soviet collapse.

The Nerpa was to be inducted into the Indian Navy like INS Chakra by mid-2008 but on November 8, 2008, shortly after the sea trials commenced, as many as 20 sailors and technical workers were killed onboard, while they were asleep, due to the release of toxic Freon gas following a technical problem in the automatic fire suppression system.​

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article2311146.ece

 

[ace009]

It's very old news (more than 1 year). All latest news related with Nerpa already posted. I don't see anything new in the above news.


Aug 20, 2010

Nerpa nuclear submarine sets sail from Russia for India - Brahmand.com



India to get nuclear submarine Nerpa by year-end

MOSCOW, July 31, 2011​

The Hindu : News / National : India to get nuclear submarine Nerpa by year-end

What route is it taking? Around the world and being tugged by a fishing trawler? If it set sail in Aug 2010, then how come it is not in India by now? And why would it take a year and a half to arrive?

 

[SPIEZ]

What route is it taking? Around the world and being tugged by a fishing trawler? If it set sail in Aug 2010, then how come it is not in India by now? And why would it take a year and a half to arrive?

Russian submarine K-152 Nerpa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The article doesn't talk highly of the Nerpa. It even says that it's made out of steel from China and hence had leaking problems.

 

[pmaitra]

Russian submarine K-152 Nerpa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The article doesn't talk highly of the Nerpa. It even says that it's made out of steel from China and hence had leaking problems.

I don't think it is a problem with the steel, but the welding of two steel pieces. That is what it sounds like when I read this:

An unnamed worker at the Amur shipyard told Komsomolskaya Pravda that there were "questions about the quality of the metal that was used in building the nuclear submarine", some of which had been bought from China, and alleged that "when the first trials of the submarine were carried out water was leaking in between the seams! So it is not surprising that the work dragged on."

 

[LETHALFORCE]

This is being leased and I doubt that this is even true Russians have been building subs for 6 decades.

 

[SPIEZ]

I don't think it is a problem with the steel, but the welding of two steel pieces. That is what it sounds like when I read this:

I hope it's true and good, otherwise we should invest more on indigenous nuclear submarines for which our experience is less.

 

[Galaxy]

INS Chakra Akula II nuclear sub?


The following GOI Press release is interesting, because, l believe, no IN sub in service can launch missiles.

Objection to Test Firing of Missiles from A&N Islands

Indian Navy proposal for temporary use of Tillanchang Island for missile firings from submarines was discussed at the 23rd Meeting of Standing Committee of National Board of Wildlife (NBWL) on 14th October 2011. The expert panel noted that the test firing was likely to have an impact on the lifecycle of the Nicobar Megapode. A joint inspection by the expert and Chief Wildlife Warden, A & N Islands has been ordered by the Standing Committee of National Board of Wildlife.

This information was given by Defence Minister Shri AK Antony in a written reply to Shri A. Elavarasan in Rajya Sabha today.

 

[bhramos]

INS Chakra Akula II nuclear sub?


The following GOI Press release is interesting, because, l believe, no IN sub in service can launch missiles.

Objection to Test Firing of Missiles from A&N Islands

Indian Navy proposal for temporary use of Tillanchang Island for missile firings from submarines was discussed at the 23rd Meeting of Standing Committee of National Board of Wildlife (NBWL) on 14th October 2011. The expert panel noted that the test firing was likely to have an impact on the lifecycle of the Nicobar Megapode. A joint inspection by the expert and Chief Wildlife Warden, A & N Islands has been ordered by the Standing Committee of National Board of Wildlife.

This information was given by Defence Minister Shri AK Antony in a written reply to Shri A. Elavarasan in Rajya Sabha today.

IN's Kilo's can fire Klub AshCM, so IN Submarines have Missile firing Capability

 

[pmaitra]

INS Chakra Akula II nuclear sub?


The following GOI Press release is interesting, because, l believe, no IN sub in service can launch missiles.

Objection to Test Firing of Missiles from A&N Islands

Indian Navy proposal for temporary use of Tillanchang Island for missile firings from submarines was discussed at the 23rd Meeting of Standing Committee of National Board of Wildlife (NBWL) on 14th October 2011. The expert panel noted that the test firing was likely to have an impact on the lifecycle of the Nicobar Megapode. A joint inspection by the expert and Chief Wildlife Warden, A & N Islands has been ordered by the Standing Committee of National Board of Wildlife.

This information was given by Defence Minister Shri AK Antony in a written reply to Shri A. Elavarasan in Rajya Sabha today.

• Nuclear propulsion? Yes.
• Nuclear missiles? No.
• So, is INS Chakra a nuclear sub? Yes and No.

 

[Galaxy]

Russian n-sub for Indian Navy coming soon: Envoy

 

[Galaxy]

• Nuclear propulsion? Yes.
• Nuclear missiles? No.
• So, is INS Chakra a nuclear sub? Yes and No.

I think, Since Missile is not yet tested, So It's won't have nuke missile in starting.

Once Objection to Test Firing of Missiles from A&N Islands will be cleared, Testing will be done. Then it will be equipped with nuke missile.

In Short, It is capable but after testing only it will be operational I suppose.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Russian submarine K-152 Nerpa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The article doesn't talk highly of the Nerpa. It even says that it's made out of steel from China and hence had leaking problems.

To be fair, I believe leaking more likely would be due to bad welds, not where the steel came from.

[And pmaitra already said that. D'oh!]

 

[ace009]

To be fair, I believe leaking more likely would be due to bad welds, not where the steel came from.

[And pmaitra already said that. D'oh!]

Yeah - actually Chinese steel is not of bad quality. They have imported/ modified and developed some very advanced steel making technologies. They may still lack the processes for a few very special steel types, but what they can make is actually pretty good.
Welding techniques on the other hand is extremely labor-specific. Even one shift of untrained/ less trained labor will screw up the welding process.

 

[pmaitra]

I think, Since Missile is not yet tested, So It's won't have nuke missile in starting.

Once Objection to Test Firing of Missiles from A&N Islands will be cleared, Testing will be done. Then it will be equipped with nuke missile.

In Short, It is capable but after testing only it will be operational I suppose.

No missile testing on INS Chakra.

1. We are not getting this: The Project 941 or Akula, Russian "Акула" ("Shark") class submarine (NATO reporting name: Typhoon)
2. We are getting this: The K-152 Nerpa (Russian: К-152 «Нерпа») is a 8,140-tonne (8,010-long-ton) Project 971 Shchuka-B (NATO: Akula II)

The submarine we are getting is not the nuclear ballistic missile capable Akula but the Nuclear Powered Attack Submarine Shchuka-B. So no, we will not be testing any nuclear capable ballistic missiles from INS Chakra.

 

[Adux]

It has Missile Firing capability from Torpedo Tubes, so Klub and Nirbhay are definite possibilities

 

[Galaxy]

No missile testing on INS Chakra.

1. We are not getting this: The Project 941 or Akula, Russian "Акула" ("Shark") class submarine (NATO reporting name: Typhoon)
2. We are getting this: The K-152 Nerpa (Russian: К-152 «Нерпа») is a 8,140-tonne (8,010-long-ton) Project 971 Shchuka-B (NATO: Akula II)

The submarine we are getting is not the nuclear ballistic missile capable Akula but the Nuclear Powered Attack Submarine Shchuka-B. So no, we will not be testing any nuclear capable ballistic missiles from INS Chakra.

It's Nuclear capable Cruise Missile and not Ballistic Missile.

Russian Navy's Akula-II could be equipped with 28 nuclear-capable cruise missiles with a striking range of 3,000 km (1,620 nmi; 1,864 mi), the Indian version was reportedly expected to be armed with the 300 km (162 nmi; 186 mi)-range 3M-54 Klub nuclear-capable missiles..Missiles with ranges greater than 300 km (162 nmi; 186 mi) cannot be exported due to arms control restrictions, since Russia is a signatory to the MTCR treaty.

 

[pmaitra]

It's Nuclear capable Cruise Missile and not Ballistic Missile.

Russian Navy's Akula-II could be equipped with 28 nuclear-capable cruise missiles with a striking range of 3,000 km (1,620 nmi; 1,864 mi), the Indian version was reportedly expected to be armed with the 300 km (162 nmi; 186 mi)-range 3M-54 Klub nuclear-capable missiles..Missiles with ranges greater than 300 km (162 nmi; 186 mi) cannot be exported due to arms control restrictions, since Russia is a signatory to the MTCR treaty.

I doubt it. See post #233.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

WWII submarine forces had the primary mission of sinking enemy shipping, and the measure of success was always tonnage sunk. In current doctrine for submarines (of any country) the mission seems to have changed to launching missiles to attack land targets or large naval targets such as aircraft carriers. Is sinking of enemy shipping not important now because nobody thinks a war will last long enough for that mission to have much importance?

US Gato Class submarine

http://www.history.navy.mil/library/online/sub_doctrine.htm (1944)

 

[pmaitra]

WWII submarine forces had the primary mission of sinking enemy shipping, and the measure of success was always tonnage sunk. In current doctrine for submarines (of any country) the mission seems to have changed to launching missiles to attack land targets or large naval targets such as aircraft carriers. Is sinking of enemy shipping not important now because nobody thinks a war will last long enough for that mission to have much importance?

US Gato Class submarine

Current Doctrine Submarines (USF-25(A)) (1944)

From what I understand about the Indian PoV, we are trying to complete out Nuclear Triad of land, air and sea based deterrence. Therefore, we need to have submarines around in the oceans with nuclear tipped ballistic missiles that can hit targets as retaliation in enemy countries, especially those that have the capability to launch a preemptive strike and disable all out land based and air assets.

INS Arihant is the right step in the right direction. INS Chakra, however, will impart valuable training to the crew about operating, operating in and surviving in a nuclear powered submarine, regardless of whether it delivers nuclear missiles or bouquets of flower. That is the primary motivation towards acquiring the Soviet (now Russian) Shchuka-B/Nerpa, not launching nuclear tipped missiles. In fact, that could also be a violation of MTCR.

 

[Eiffe]

This will be a good move.. we need to integrate SLBM capacities as soon as possible on our submarines