India's Moon Exploration Program

[Bleh]

If the lander is unable to send data inspite of the having a comm link with the orbiter what will the orbiter do ?

The onboard TX/RX system requires the onboard data processing package to process data and format it for transmission over the same and vice versa after receiving the data. TX/RX system is working but the backend system which processes the data to be sent or be received seems not to be working at the he moment.

Voltage surge or transient leakage might be a reason , however systems can recover if it has the firmware installed to reboot.

Eg in a normal oscilloscope if it is subjected to out of range voltage beyond instrumented range , the output readings flatlines and shuts down to recover and then reboots if the surge voltage is no longer present.

Same recovery can happen with the landers malfunctioning components provided the anomalous cause ceases to exist .

But ISRO chief said "...the communication channel is on between the lander and the orbiter. It should be intact."

 

[porky_kicker]

what are the chances it landed on an inclined surface (like edge of crater?) , it might have tumbled down .. causing irregular or weak signals-- as lander might be in shadow and incorrect orientation?

Possible

But even weak signals can transmit or recieve information if everything is working fine.

Comm channel open means the TX/RX system is still working which means lander is kind of intact , but in what condition I cannot say.

But no flow of information through the open comm channel means the lander is not processing data onsite to relay back or receive them externally to process the same onsite.

This is the long story short as per my understanding

 

[porky_kicker]

But ISRO chief said "...the communication channel is on between the lander and the orbiter. It should be intact."

Bhai any system consists of multiple sub systems , some sub systems might be working some might not. Hence overall the complete system might work but not in the intended way.

In this case

TX/RX ( transmission / recieving ) portion is working - hence comm channel open.

But one or some of the backend systems are not working - hence no information flow over the open comm channel.

 

[Kra]

I have been reading reports about the velocity being 50 m/s above 400 metres from the ground. I don't know if they are true but if they are then it is possible that the lander crashed and whatever comm signals are received from orbiter are from whatever is left of it. Praying that the lander survived though

 

[ganesh177]

PATHETIC Low Level of Journalism of
@ndtv
NDTV Journo Pallava Bagla waa CLUELESS while questioning ISRO Chief K Sivan. THEN see his Attitude & Tone -SHOUTING & Insulting #ISRO Scientist who was briefing the Press

oh boy, in that second video some journalist is shouting like a animal and the juniour scientist just did not knew how to respond. Why cant journalist understand they are scientist/engneer not trained for mud sligging.
If he is so fond of mud slinging then why dont he be present in front of arnab goswami at 9 am today. Arsehole.

 

[porky_kicker]

Please don't mention porkies and their quotes here . Science and technology is above their pay grade.

And importantly when anybody quotes pigs they bring themselves to the pigs level.

When one goes down the street stray dogs will bark , is it sense to reply to them ?

Post them in porky musings thread .

Note : I apologise to all 4 legged stray dogs and 4 legged pigs , for comparing them to pakis

 

[Shredder]

Oh maan i literally shred a tear after this setback , but i am glad whole country was awake for ISRO , this organisation has filled Indians with pride. When was the whole country awake at 2am last time??never but ISRO could do it.
We have always succeeded after such setbacks , remember i will call it a setback and not a failure cz 90% mission successful with no glitch.
Successful at
seperating lander from orbiter in 1st attempt
De orbiting maneuver for lander in 1st attempt.
Next time we will achieve it 100% , lets hope this setback propels government to give even more funds to ISRO.
Jai hind

Exactly. I remember the days when our The Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme (Agni series, Prithivi missiles) kept on failing. It took more than 3 decades for DRDO to master the tech; and now we have the capability to have ICBM and medium-range SLBMs.

What ISO has done with such a minuscule budget is truly remarkable; minimum input with maximum throughput. Never pay heed to the naysayers and trolls. And for gods-sake my request to my fellow Indians is to stay away from filth like peedeef during times like this; remember, visiting such sites is equivalent to putting money in their pockets in terms of ad revenue.

 

[AnantS]

@porky_kicker for your deleted post: dont worry there will CY Lander 2 experiment repeated again! Remember they need to prove this lander technologies as more complex future ISRO's Venusian or Martian lander depend on the learning and experience gained in this program. So they need to validate CY2 again

Right now lot of hard work lies ahead for ISRO to find out cause for malfunction. I just wish right now they learn a lot a lot of what they missed, how they missed and what could have been differently etc And come out much stronger and better again

 

[porky_kicker]

@porky_kicker for your deleted post: dont worry there will CY Lander 2 experiment repeated again! Remember they need to prove this lander technologies as more complex future ISRO's Venusian or Martian lander depend on the learning and experience gained in this program. So they need to validate CY2 again

Right now lot of hard work lies ahead for ISRO to find out cause for malfunction. I just wish right now they learn a lot a lot of what they missed, how they missed and what could have been differently etc And come out much stronger and better again

Yes and good luck to us for that

But the biggest joy will be if the Vikram lander suddenly comes online . It will be a thriller of this century.

And I am still hoping it will

 

[Aaj ka hero]

To add to it

" We have to find out from the communication data whether it is a soft landing or it is a crash landing.In my opinion,it is not a crash landing because the communication channel is on between the lander and the orbiter. It should be intact. ” - Fmr Isro chief

As I said earlier the lander has landed but one or some of the comms components must have malfunctioned due to the hard transition before landing.

So why then Sivan sir was so distraught?
Even, PM sir is saying win and losses occur in life.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Yes and good luck to us for that

But the biggest joy will be if the Vikram lander suddenly comes online . It will be a thriller of this century.

And I am still hoping it will

So what do you think is next in line? A presser to clarify doubts and clear the confusion?

Frankly I think they are trying to reboot the lander remotely so that they can get the communication array to work.

Hence why DSN Madrid picked up that transmission from Lander for 1 second.

 

[porky_kicker]

So why then Sivan sir was so distraught?
Even, PM sir is saying win and losses occur in life.

Same situation like below

The results of your exam came , it said you failed in all subjects , will you cry or not , or be distraught or not ?

And your friends and teachers will sympathize with you or not ?

Does that mean all hope is gone ?

Afterwards there is option of re-evaluation of exam papers , it is possible you actually passed all your papers isn't it ?

Or next year you pass with flying colours.

 

[porky_kicker]

So what do you think is next in line? A presser to clarify doubts and clear the confusion?

Frankly I think they are trying to reboot the lander remotely so that they can get the communication array to work.

Hence why DSN Madrid picked up that transmission from Lander for 1 second.

No idea but I am hoping they leave no stones unturned to get the lander online.

Rebooting should be autonomous in the lander , that's how fail safe systems work in deep space equipments.

Let's wait and see, I am not informed on how space systems maintain redundancy in near vaccum with high ionisation background

 

[Indx TechStyle]

So why then Sivan sir was so distraught?
Even, PM sir is saying win and losses occur in life.

Your dream project went entirely good till 3.844 lakh kilometers but you lost at last 2 kilometers. Won't you cry then?

 

[Indx TechStyle]

So what do you think is next in line? A presser to clarify doubts and clear the confusion?

A pressor will come after analysis of data.

For me, there is no point trying same mission once again. US is going to land humans on Moon and multiple private space agencies are preparing for moon rovers. Attempting same mission will project us backward.


We should rather develop a sampling robot & return mechanism (won't be difficult as we made strong thrusters) after correcting the malfunction of Vikram in our follow on lunar mission.
Launch a sample return mission next time!!
Very much practical.

 

[Kashmiri Pandit]

Can we Create a crowd funding movement for ISRO. We should launch a new mission ASAP.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Can we Create a crowd funding movement for ISRO. We should launch a new mission ASAP.

Another mission launched ASAP will meet same fate. At least let us rectify issues.

 

[AnantS]

A pressor will come after analysis of data.

For me, there is no point trying same mission once again. US is going to land humans on Moon and multiple private space agencies are preparing for moon rovers. Attempting same mission will project us backward.


We should rather develop a sampling robot & return mechanism (won't be difficult as we made strong thrusters) after correcting the malfunction of Vikram in our follow on lunar mission.
Launch a sample return mission next time!!
Very much practical.

Nobody is going to share the experience and techniques. Stakes are higher for future. Will Nasa/JAXA etc share FCS Lander, Avionics, sensor, Lander technology with us? Never. They might share ready made lander but not technologies. So yes , we will need to redo it

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Nobody is going to share the experience and techniques. Stakes are higher for future. Will Nasa/JAXA etc share FCS Lander, Avionics, sensor, Lander technology with us? Never. They might share ready made lander but not technologies. So yes , we will need to redo it

I think you need to read my post again. Nowhere I mentioned of need of foreign support. I said our landing failed at last moment. We are mostly successful except a little rectification. There is no point sending same thing for that reason. Send something extra. If not sample return, at least a sampling mission.

 

[here2where]

Lets keep this thread pork-free please.
This is a moment for us to hunker down, show solidarity and respect and look ahead.
Looking forward to constructive scientific posts.