Indian Woman for Combat Duties

[undeadmyrmidon]

It would be really interesting if ITBP is also getting 105mm guns besides BSF and Army, The picture is taken from ITBP official page at FB ..

Kunal Bhai what is your idea of women in direct ground position like USA? Will we have any benefit? Please clarify....

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Woman in support arms will be beneficial, Artillery, Supply, Medical, Signal, Cyber wing and aviation ..

They already exists there ..

Kunal Bhai what is your idea of women in direct ground position like USA? Will we have any benefit? Please clarify....

 

[undeadmyrmidon]

Woman in support arms will be beneficial, Artillery, Supply, Medical, Signal, Cyber wing and aviation ..

They already exists there ..

Sir, as per Israeli,US and UK data women due to their shorter stature experience problems with vertical force with regard to artillery shells. The stress fractures may affect their reproductive system and can cost the taxpayer a lot in terms of medical bills. There is always the threat to being taken POW by enemy ehich will lead to rape,violence. Also in artillery, the battalion headquarters stands a chance of being overrun if there is 'Blitzkreig'. I know in AAD,Signals, Medical they are there but army aviation they face 'airborne cavalry' type missions with exposure to indirect combat. Isn't this the domain of IAF?

BTW, I like the idea of a cyber command with so many unemployed B.Tech holders in market today. Even education corps can get govt. polytechnic education and get shifted to this field. Veterans from respective fields can give lectures for recruits than dedicated but poorly utilised staff.

 

[Bahamut]

BTW, I like the idea of a cyber command with so many unemployed B.Tech holders in market today.

Cyber army is not about quantity but quality. It is just pure brain power. Better to have single excellent person then to have 100 dumb person.

Sir, as per Israeli,US and UK data women due to their shorter stature experience problems with vertical force with regard to artillery shells. The stress fractures may affect their reproductive system and can cost the taxpayer a lot in terms of medical bills.

More and more system are going to have automatic loading so it will not make a difference

 

[undeadmyrmidon]

Cyber army is not about quantity but quality. It is just pure brain power. Better to have single excellent person then to have 100 dumb person.

More and more system are going to have automatic loading so it will not make a difference

That is factually untrue. Autoloader systems are not 100% reliable. If it jams up then you have to extract the casing and shell weighing 43.2 kg minimum and for a women with body weight ~ 55kgs - 65 kgs she will most definitely have stress fractures essentially in a crouching position. That's why US army till now has no autoloader in M1 series tank and even in the new M777 howitzers. The thumb rule is heavier a piece of equipment, the greater the power to weight ratio. Thus transmission requirements make designing an autoloader more difficult.

I work as an engineer in an IT firm and I can assure you that you are giving too much credit to us engineers. Most of us just edit Macros, monitor a closed control system for error and data fragmentation and ping an 'OK' to server every now and then. You need bodies to work in shifts and crunch this grind.

This is a typical day at work for me:

 

[Bahamut]

I work as an engineer in an IT firm and I can assure you that you are giving too much credit to us engineers. Most of us just edit Macros, monitor a closed control system for error and data fragmentation and ping an 'OK' to server every now and then. You need bodies to work in shifts and crunch this grind.

Sir, I am a engineer too but in cyber army is different from IT firm. There is a excellent documentary on Isreal cyber army and they are just about 1000 strong, but they are highly trained. Cyber army needs to have excellent programmer and maintain a database of zero day and other exploits. Just look at Julian Assange, he single handled got access to all nasa file.

That is factually untrue. Autoloader systems are not 100% reliable. If it jams up then you have to extract the casing and shell weighing 43.2 kg minimum and for a women with body weight ~ 55kgs - 65 kgs she will most definitely have stress fractures essentially in a crouching position. That's why US army till now has no autoloader in M1 series tank and even in the new M777 howitzers. The thumb rule is heavier a piece of equipment, the greater the power to weight ratio. Thus transmission requirements make designing an autoloader more difficult.

Autoloader are getting better day by day. They Russian have it in most of their tanks and spg, the European are also moving in that direction. Autoloader means less crew and are excellent for shoot and scoop.

 

[undeadmyrmidon]

Sir, I am a engineer too but in cyber army is different from IT firm. There is a excellent documentary on Isreal cyber army and they are just about 1000 strong, but they are highly trained. Cyber army needs to have excellent programmer and maintain a database of zero day and other exploits. Just look at Julian Assange, he single handled got access to all nasa file.

Autoloader are getting better day by day. They Russian have it in most of their tanks and spg, the European are also moving in that direction. Autoloader means less crew and are excellent for shoot and scoop.

A jam in battle is still deadly will not account for human error.

A snippet :

A well trained and veteran tank loader can easily outperform an auto loader which always has to wait for a machine to reload the tank's main gun. In addition by having a loader in American and British tanks allow their crews to switch among different ammunition types at a much faster rate then being stuck with whatever rounds are in the auto loader. It has also been shown in combat that the auto loader is slower in a battle less than 20 miles from Baghdad at point-blank skirmish range of less than 50 yards saw 7, T-72 tanks destroyed by American Abrams with no loses on the American side. Unlike in the Gulf War this was not a situation where the Abrams destroyed the T-72's beyond their range, this was solely due to better reload speed, ammunition, and training on the part of the American crews against the Iraqi crews. The more interesting thing would be how American and British tanks would do against a modern Russian tank like the T-90 which still uses an auto loader but can fire more advanced rounds than what old T-72's could and has armor similar to that of modern U.S. and British tanks. There is also some military tradition involved American and British tank crews have almost always included a loader for the tanks the only exception being the American T22 medium tank, however, nearly all Soviet and Russian tanks have been auto loaders. Military's tend to be very conservative and set in their ways unless or until an auto loader proves itself to be vastly superior to a human loader the British and Americans won't change and the same is true for the Russians as well.

P.S: Cyber armies are small but data crunching requires slog work thus more 'bodies'. I had to pull 14 hour shifts sometimes as a greenhorn. Plus this can lead to R&D potential as well

 

[Kay]

A jam in battle is still deadly will not account for human error.

A snippet :

A well trained and veteran tank loader can easily outperform an auto loader which always has to wait for a machine to reload the tank's main gun. In addition by having a loader in American and British tanks allow their crews to switch among different ammunition types at a much faster rate then being stuck with whatever rounds are in the auto loader. It has also been shown in combat that the auto loader is slower in a battle less than 20 miles from Baghdad at point-blank skirmish range of less than 50 yards saw 7, T-72 tanks destroyed by American Abrams with no loses on the American side. Unlike in the Gulf War this was not a situation where the Abrams destroyed the T-72's beyond their range, this was solely due to better reload speed, ammunition, and training on the part of the American crews against the Iraqi crews. The more interesting thing would be how American and British tanks would do against a modern Russian tank like the T-90 which still uses an auto loader but can fire more advanced rounds than what old T-72's could and has armor similar to that of modern U.S. and British tanks. There is also some military tradition involved American and British tank crews have almost always included a loader for the tanks the only exception being the American T22 medium tank, however, nearly all Soviet and Russian tanks have been auto loaders. Military's tend to be very conservative and set in their ways unless or until an auto loader proves itself to be vastly superior to a human loader the British and Americans won't change and the same is true for the Russians as well.

P.S: Cyber armies are small but data crunching requires slog work thus more 'bodies'. I had to pull 14 hour shifts sometimes as a greenhorn. Plus this can lead to R&D potential as well

Autoloaders are the future. It is likely western tanks to upgrade to 130 mm ( Raytheon is building 130mm tank gun). As ammo becomes heavier, autoloaders are must.
Also APFSDS are getting longer and penetration increasing - ManpatGMs are becoming ubiquitous needing better armour. This.means more weight. Manual loaders cannot continue.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Woman are active in artillery specially in AD section, there are no such problems here ..

Its a occupational hazard and part of duty ..

Sir, as per Israeli,US and UK data women due to their shorter stature experience problems with vertical force with regard to artillery shells. The stress fractures may affect their reproductive system and can cost the taxpayer a lot in terms of medical bills. There is always the threat to being taken POW by enemy ehich will lead to rape,violence. Also in artillery, the battalion headquarters stands a chance of being overrun if there is 'Blitzkreig'. I know in AAD,Signals, Medical they are there but army aviation they face 'airborne cavalry' type missions with exposure to indirect combat. Isn't this the domain of IAF?

BTW, I like the idea of a cyber command with so many unemployed B.Tech holders in market today. Even education corps can get govt. polytechnic education and get shifted to this field. Veterans from respective fields can give lectures for recruits than dedicated but poorly utilised staff.

 

[Kay]

Autoloaders are the future. It is likely western tanks to upgrade to 130 mm ( Raytheon is building 130mm tank gun). As ammo becomes heavier, autoloaders are must.
Also APFSDS are getting longer and penetration increasing - ManpatGMs are becoming ubiquitous needing better armour. This.means more weight. Manual loaders cannot continue.

Sry..I meant Rheinmettal.

....

 

[undeadmyrmidon]

Woman are active in artillery specially in AD section, there are no such problems here ..

Its a occupational hazard and part of duty ..

Sir, Indian Army currently does not employ women in combat services. I fear if you give an inch the 'Feminazis' will snatch a mile. They will use courts and media to build case to case for further combat openings which are both unnecessary and a waste of resources and money and more threat variables to account for. We lose a lot in terms of infrastructure costs, mediclaim costs and even investment in lighter combat equipment that will also inevitably reduce standards or have dual standards. In AD we have 40mm shells that are not as heavy but honestly oversized DsHk shells.

In artillery such as 203/155mm and below we risk massive problems when inducting women in combat arms. We gain nothing and lose potential munitions workers in theatre conflicts (WW2 Victory Program).

Sorry sir, I respect your seniority but I must call out factual errors in strategem. Nothing personal sir.

 

[undeadmyrmidon]

Autoloaders are the future. It is likely western tanks to upgrade to 130 mm ( Raytheon is building 130mm tank gun). As ammo becomes heavier, autoloaders are must.
Also APFSDS are getting longer and penetration increasing - ManpatGMs are becoming ubiquitous needing better armour. This.means more weight. Manual loaders cannot continue.

If your autoloader jams in battle you are dead! Ammo to the contrary is becoming lighter owing to composites and DU being used instead of tungsten APFSDS. A simple hydraulic transmission can assist load with heavier shells (155mm+) in Artillery.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Army operate 95% of tanks which have auto-loader, It require intensive maintenance but has its own benefits ..

If your autoloader jams in battle you are dead! Ammo to the contrary is becoming lighter owing to composites and DU being used instead of tungsten APFSDS. A simple hydraulic transmission can assist load with heavier shells (155mm+) in Artillery.

 

[12arya]

ombate

Female pilot unnecessary increases risk. Say if like US Bin Laden raid helo crashes, then female POW in the hands of LeT is a disaster. Think of Saurabh Kalia x 100.

come on buddy. this is bollywood....these r the pepl who push for women in combat & even in SF!

remember this......its propoganda and we all know it.

it does not villify our military and this is a welcome change since we all know bollywood is a jihadi mouthpiece! i will welcome this with open arms, despite its faults, for the very reason that it has triggered presstitutes!

 

[vampyrbladez]

ombate

come on buddy. this is bollywood....these r the pepl who push for women in combat & even in SF!

remember this......its propoganda and we all know it.

it does not villify our military and this is a welcome change since we all know bollywood is a jihadi mouthpiece! i will welcome this with open arms, despite its faults, for the very reason that it has triggered presstitutes!

Madamji, fact is dead and raped women make very bad headlines in war. During Vietnam certain images like these sparked protests against US govt. and doomed their war effort thanks to sickular media then.

WARNING: DISTURBING IMAGES AHEAD

Spoiler

If helo crash happened and she was taken POW aka this fictional IAF officer, India would have 1000x worse situation than Kulbhushan Yadav but in terror hands she will be essentially sex slave. How demeaning would it be to the country!

Idea is to minimize risk and maximize possibility of success. We have many brave men and women in our armed forces and each has a role to play. Each of us are after all just a brick in the the wall.

 

[12arya]

Madamji, fact is dead and raped women make very bad headlines in war. During Vietnam certain images like these sparked protests against US govt. and doomed their war effort thanks to sickular media then.

WARNING: DISTURBING IMAGES AHEAD

Spoiler

If helo crash happened and she was taken POW aka this fictional IAF officer, India would have 1000x worse situation than Kulbhushan Yadav but in terror hands she will be essentially sex slave. How demeaning would it be to the country!

Idea is to minimize risk and maximize possibility of success. We have many brave men and women in our armed forces and each has a role to play. Each of us are after all just a brick in the the wall.

lets move this discussion to the proper thread

https://defenceforumindia.com/forum...ic-hypernationalism.81368/page-2#post-1466076

 

[rkhanna]

come on buddy. this is bollywood....these r the pepl who push for women in combat & even in SF!

Sidebar - a number of countries field Women in Combat Duties and even Special Forces. And historically a number of cultures (including the Subcontinent) have women fought on the battlefield.

 

[ALBY]

There is nothing wrong in fielding women in combat roles if tthey passed the test. All those who undermine the capabilities of women should remember that there are many women with Olympic level physical qualities which most of us the regular men can't attain.

 

[vampyrbladez]

There is nothing wrong in fielding women in combat roles if tthey passed the test. All those who undermine the capabilities of women should remember that there are many women with Olympic level physical qualities which most of us the regular men can't attain.

Idea is in law of averages. You cannot design army around Rambo's and GI Janes. By law of averages top 8 - 10% of men are ideal for military service. Women as per capability meet bottom 25% of men recruiting pool for top their top 25%.

A streamlined, efficient and mission focused military is what we need. Political correctness and gender guilt be damned.

 

[rkhanna]

Idea is in law of averages. You cannot design army around Rambo's and GI Janes. By law of averages top 8 - 10% of men are ideal for military service. Women as per capability meet bottom 25% of men recruiting pool for top their top 25%.

A streamlined, efficient and mission focused military is what we need. Political correctness and gender guilt be damned.

Where are you getting your data from ?

PS- Women are already in combat roles in India. - airforce + ships + CAPFs + SFF

Women have served in combat with special forces units in America , Israel and as intelligence officers across a host of countries.

There is no political correctness. If a woman can do a job better than a man she should be hired.

Don't forget that the subcontinent has along history if women on the battlefield going back 3000 years.

So political non-correctness if any is from a Victorian Western filter.