Indian tri-Services, joint and theatre commands

[sthf]

BC yeh sunne ke liye kaan taras gaye the. Never thought that this day will come.

Whenever this gets implimented, I'll open the bloody single malt I have been saving for past 3 months or something even better.

 

[aditya g]

There is tremendous pressures and lobbies within GOI to not let these things happen. It is only this government who can do this. I really hope Namo and Parrikar make this happen.

Seeking to bring in major reforms in the country's defence forces, Prime Minister Narendra Modi has asked the Ministry of Defence to initiate steps towards creating theatre commands for the military.

Under a theatre commands, all the troops and resources of the three forces - Army, Navy and Air Force - would be combined and put under the command of one officer, who would be from either of the three serivces and who would determine their use.

At the combined commanders conference headed by the prime minister, the Integrated Defence Staff under the Defence Ministry was asked to prepare a roadmap for theatre commands and new initiatives would be taken by this year-end, senior Defence Ministry sources told India Today.


Appointment OF NEW FOUR STAR GEN ALSO BEING CONSIDERED

The three services had made a detailed presentation to the prime minister at the conference, which was held recently. As part of defence reforms, the government is also appointing a new four star general to looking after the issues related to three services.

All these structures of proposed command would be provided in the roadmap by the military officers under the guidance of political leadership the sources stated.

At the conference, the IAF had raised questions over the command structure and equipment integration under the theatre commands but everybody recognised the need for creating new military structures.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...es-commands-for-indian-military/1/879902.html

Long time overdue i say man i am surprised at the pace and boldness of the present government in the relems of defence

 

[abingdonboy]

Seeking to bring in major reforms in the country's defence forces, Prime Minister Narendra Modi has asked the Ministry of Defence to initiate steps towards creating theatre commands for the military.

Under a theatre commands, all the troops and resources of the three forces - Army, Navy and Air Force - would be combined and put under the command of one officer, who would be from either of the three serivces and who would determine their use.

At the combined commanders conference headed by the prime minister, the Integrated Defence Staff under the Defence Ministry was asked to prepare a roadmap for theatre commands and new initiatives would be taken by this year-end, senior Defence Ministry sources told India Today.


Appointment OF NEW FOUR STAR GEN ALSO BEING CONSIDERED

The three services had made a detailed presentation to the prime minister at the conference, which was held recently. As part of defence reforms, the government is also appointing a new four star general to looking after the issues related to three services.

All these structures of proposed command would be provided in the roadmap by the military officers under the guidance of political leadership the sources stated.

At the conference, the IAF had raised questions over the command structure and equipment integration under the theatre commands but everybody recognised the need for creating new military structures.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...es-commands-for-indian-military/1/879902.html

Are these the space, cyber and spec ops tri-service commands or entirely different theatre commands?

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Seeking to bring in major reforms in the country's defence forces, Prime Minister Narendra Modi has asked the Ministry of Defence to initiate steps towards creating theatre commands for the military.

Under a theatre commands, all the troops and resources of the three forces - Army, Navy and Air Force - would be combined and put under the command of one officer, who would be from either of the three serivces and who would determine their use.

At the combined commanders conference headed by the prime minister, the Integrated Defence Staff under the Defence Ministry was asked to prepare a roadmap for theatre commands and new initiatives would be taken by this year-end, senior Defence Ministry sources told India Today.


Appointment OF NEW FOUR STAR GEN ALSO BEING CONSIDERED

The three services had made a detailed presentation to the prime minister at the conference, which was held recently. As part of defence reforms, the government is also appointing a new four star general to looking after the issues related to three services.

All these structures of proposed command would be provided in the roadmap by the military officers under the guidance of political leadership the sources stated.

At the conference, the IAF had raised questions over the command structure and equipment integration under the theatre commands but everybody recognised the need for creating new military structures.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...es-commands-for-indian-military/1/879902.html

Why this forum is not being shown in main list?
It's correct place to discuss such issues.
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/s/military-strategy.12/

 

[Willy2]

There is tremendous pressures and lobbies within GOI to not let these things happen. It is only this government who can do this. I really hope Namo and Parrikar make this happen.

What these ppl want by not let this happen ??

 

[Adioz]

Wow. 10 feb ki khabar ab padh raha hoon.

But I am happy. Best news of this year. This is bigger than any platform acquisition or anything else.

I was anxiously anticipating this news ever since the commander's conference. When no news came out even a week later, I got depressed thinking "ab ki baar kisne tang ada di beech main". But this is good news.

As expected, Air Force is the one most insecure about the changing setup. All I hope for is that by the next conference, all kinks be worked out and only appointments to new posts are left. Then, by 2018 end, we might have at least some of the theater commands operational and a 4-star Chief of defense as well (ideally should be a 5-star general, but oh well. We'll get there some day).

@Kunal Biswas Please make this thread a sticky and merge with this thread:-
Military to propose setting up US-style unified commands

 

[Bahamut]

Next step should be a cyber army for electronic warfare and espionage. Good step, it was due for a long time

 

[aditya g]

What these ppl want by not let this happen ??

Basically civilian bureaucracy.

?..............

 

[sthf]

Are these the space, cyber and spec ops tri-service commands or entirely different theatre commands?

This essentially means that CO of a theater command will be the foremost authority in his area of operation and all the combined assets will be under his operational control.

Which means as per current scenario, CO, Northern Command, Udhampur gets to decide how to use air power in the mountains and valleys and CO of A&N gets to decide how to use land forces when defending the islands.

IAF looks like a net loser and may get something by MOD to pacify them.

 

[Willy2]

Basically civilian bureaucracy.

?..............

I mean , what these ppl really want ??what type of benefit they expected to lose after tri-service command ?? is export mafia benefited by current system ?? or some nation don't want unified command for India ??these corrupt bureaucracy u talk about must work with them, is't ??

 

[pringles]

I mean , what these ppl really want ??what type of benefit they expected to lose after tri-service command ?? is export mafia benefited by current system ?? or some nation don't want unified command for India ??these corrupt bureaucracy u talk about must work with them, is't ??

It's not that stark like foreign powers interfering. It's actually inertia. There have been instances in the past where people who take quick decisions were penalized, so no one takes fast decision. For example, there was a road to be built in North East, but as per government rules to get clearance to build a road anywhere in India, there is a rule that the area/village through which the road passes must have [X] population. Now, the road that was to be built went through a lot of barren land where there was no population. Put yourself in the shoes of the bureaucrat. You understand that the logical thing to do is to build the road anyway because the road is primarily for transporting army convoys and it truly doesn't matter which village it passes through and what their population is. The logical thing to do is to build the shortest path possible, to reduce time.

But if you do that, there will be inquiry commission set up against you. They will ask you "why did you break the rules to award the contract to a company which built the shortest route? why didn't you follow the rules to build the road only in areas where the village population is more than [X]?" they will audit your accounts, they will see if the company you awarded the contract to belongs to your relatives or something. And even the person doing your audit understands that all of this auditing is a stupid exercise, but even he is scared that if he doesn't do the audit, then another agency like CAG will do his audit.

You see what I'm saying here? the system of checks and balances is so strong that common sense has no place here. Everything needs to be followed as per rule. The story narrated above is not a hypothetical story. This is what Nitin Gadkari said on Lok Sabha TV interview just 2 days back. When he found out, he made sure that whatever exceptions needed to be made were made and the road was built. Now, this was just one aspect. Imagine this happening for EVERY little thing from weapon acquisition to foreign diplomacy to tri services command. If you are a bureaucrat who wants to retire peacefully without any audit/inquiry, the best thing is to do nothing, and take no decision at all, keep forwarding the file and keep citing rules. That is why work gets stuck.

There is very little moles in bureaucracy (unlike the media and IAF), our IAS and IPS people are honest cadres.

 

[abingdonboy]

This essentially means that CO of a theater command will be the foremost authority in his area of operation and all the combined assets will be under his operational control.

Which means as per current scenario, CO, Northern Command, Udhampur gets to decide how to use air power in the mountains and valleys and CO of A&N gets to decide how to use land forces when defending the islands.

IAF looks like a net loser and may get something by MOD to pacify them.

I understand that, so Modi is talking about theatre commands. But what about the three poposed tri-service commands (Cyber, Space and special operations) that have been pending for years now?

 

[sthf]

I understand that, so Modi is talking about theatre commands. But what about the three poposed tri-service commands (Cyber, Space and special operations) that have been pending for years now?

Yes, "JOINT" theatre commands.

As for the three Tri service commands, Gen. Katoch clearly said that MOD babus won't let that happen though he is a very glass half empty kind of guy.

 

[aakash_2410]

This essentially means that CO of a theater command will be the foremost authority in his area of operation and all the combined assets will be under his operational control.

Which means as per current scenario, CO, Northern Command, Udhampur gets to decide how to use air power in the mountains and valleys and CO of A&N gets to decide how to use land forces when defending the islands.

IAF looks like a net loser and may get something by MOD to pacify them.

There won't be no losers or winners. The most senior officer of either of the three services will be the commander. Similar to US Unified Combatant Command.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Combatant_Command

 

[sthf]

Not in India they won't.

1) US services are closer to each other in size than their Indian counterparts. Theoritically, all services are equal but the massive difference in size dicates that army will have roughly 10-20 times as Lt. Gen as navy's Vice Admirals.

2) US commands are global commands. Don't think it'll be possible for a Navy officer to hold a command in the Himalayas.

3) Only way for IAF to not lose is that it contest Navy only domain which is peninsular India.

 

[Screambowl]

Are these the space, cyber and spec ops tri-service commands or entirely different theatre commands?

entirely different theatre command where cyber, space and special ops will be dealt too. That's why a new post is being created.

 

[Adioz]

I mean , what these ppl really want ??what type of benefit they expected to lose after tri-service command ?? is export mafia benefited by current system ?? or some nation don't want unified command for India ??these corrupt bureaucracy u talk about must work with them, is't ??

There won't be no losers or winners. The most senior officer of either of the three services will be the commander. Similar to US Unified Combatant Command.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Combatant_Command

My guess on what the theater commands will look like:-

• Northern Command (or Himalayan command) [J&K, to Sikkim (excluding Sikkim)] <Army commander>
• Eastern Command [North East + Sikkim] <Army Commander>
• Western Command [International border with Pakistan] <Army Commander>
• Southern Command [Peninsula+Andaman Nicobar+Lakshadweep] <Navy Commander>
• Central Command [Strategic Reserve and Out of Area Operations] <Air Force Commander>

Now, for all these commands, the Air Force assets will be under an Army commander (except southern and central commands). That is a problem for the air force brass. The priorities of target elimination are separate for the army and the air force.The air force believes that by putting air force assets under the command of an army officer, the air force's priority of establishing air superiority will receive a set-back as the primary responsibility of an army commander would be stuff like saturating enemy defenses along the axis of advance, protecting against enemy flanking maneuvers, attacking the enemy's supply lines, etc. The tasks such as airfield seizure and destruction, SEAD, destruction of enemy air craft maintenance infrastructure, etc would be secondary goals and would be contingent to their importance with regards to the primary goals.

Conversely, if an Air force commander has command of army assets, he will most likely use these to establish air superiority. He will change priorities of ground offensive to fit his prime aim of achieving air superiority first, everything else later. Ground forces would be used to hit airfields or air defence sites as priorities, instead of supply lines of enemy ground forces. It is a well established fact that no belligerent that has lost its air superiority has tasted victory even on the ground. This logic makes air force choose achieving air superiority as their prime objective.

Army and Air force have their own ways of fighting a war, and none of them are "wrong". They are simply different owing to the difference in the type of assets that they possess. The different ways to fighting the same war is what retarded the implementation of theater commands and this is also the very reason why theater commands are important.

IMHO, ARTRAC will have to create a new academic course for theater commanders: one that teaches joint operations and war as fought by a joint force structure. The service-specific bias in the minds of commanders will remain even after they complete such a course, but the effects will be substantially reduced.

 

[abingdonboy]

entirely different theatre command where cyber, space and special ops will be dealt too. That's why a new post is being created.

Cyber,space and special ops need their own dedicated commands, distinct from any theatre commands given their strategic nature.

 

[Screambowl]

Cyber,space and special ops need their own dedicated commands, distinct from any theatre commands given their strategic nature.

I think they will establish a department within it's jurisdiction.

 

[abingdonboy]

I think they will establish a department within it's jurisdiction.

That would be a sub-optimal solution. All need their own dedicated commands, entirely unrelated to theatre commands.