Indian Special Forces

[Waanar]

Are you comparing Kargil War to the Daily Counter Insurgency Operations inside Kashmir?

Yeah, that's totally what I said in my comment. It's totally not like you're trying to twist my words.

 

[rohit b3]

Lanka was different thing, the military failed collectively there .
And how did Lankan succeed when they took 25 or 30 more years to finally end the insurgency ?
Sf is capable, fir to aap ye bi kahoge ki army is failing in kashmir and so is sf .
Because tangos don't stop , what can sf do in these instead of killing them?
So how is Lankan sf better than indian sf ?

Sri Lanka is surrounded by water. they dont share borders with Pakistan/Afghanistan. Never the less they did end an insurgency and they deserve full credit for that. Which is again completely ignored by fanboys.

 

[Waanar]

Sri Lanka is surrounded by water. they dont share borders with Pakistan/Afghanistan. Never the less they did end an insurgency and they deserve full credit for that. Which is again completely ignored by fanboys.

Vro, that makes it ten times easier to defeat the insurgency. Then why did Indian SOFs not absolutely mop the floor with LTTE while Sri Lankan SOFs did it?

 

[Arjun Mk1A]

The Sri lankan civil war is more brutal than we think, IPKF is ill fated decision and still our SF survived the Jaffna university siege. Even at that time our SF is ill prepared and in general IA inability to update equipment's.

After IPKF fiasco . The next 2-3 decades the war changed completely. Sri lankan army started to indiscriminately wipe out the entire tamil people in northern Srilanka, they simply stop checking whether the person is an innocent or LTTE folk. At the near end of the war, the battle is literally fought on so called No fire zone since LTTE entrenched themselves there and srilankan army simply started to destroy the regions without evacuating the civilians.

How Srilankan Army won the battle?
They stopped caring about people and started to wipe them out indiscriminately.


Better lock this thread and let members to cool down.

Our SF is still ill equipped and our army is not interested in modernizing both regular infantry and SF's. They will train whatever they have access.

The structural change which will revamp the SF (AFSOD) is still a few years away to properly operational.

 

[shouryav105]

I heard somewhere that arun bahuguna sir have a big hand in modernizing marcos?

 

[Waanar]

Not getting into your bullshit argument of "which SF is better" , clearly it comes from your deep inferiority complex which you share with a lot of other Indians.

But you know right how Srilanka wipped out LTTE. Literally bombing their own civilian tamil population to oblivion.

They bombed schools, hospitals, murdered families that were suspected to house LTTE. People were literally running away from their own military than the LTTE. They used fire arms against unarmed civilians.

Now in what sense you want the Indian SF to act to mirror the result of the Lankan military in their own country.

Why don't these [REDACTED] read the context or follow up comments before they reply?

You cannot blame SOFs for a particular decision.

Do you want to apply the same logic to Sri Lanka?

Let's apply the same logic to Sri Lanka.

No one cares what 10th Para did in Sri Lanka. They failed in wiping out LTTE which Sri Lankan SOFs did after India withdrew.

Thus, clearly, Sri Lankan SOFs are better trained than Paras.

Main inhi bhai sahab ka logic laga raha hun. He's saying Americans failed in Afghanistan and India succeeded in Kashmir so naturally Indian SOFs need no lessons from Americans.


Similarly, where India failed in front of LTTE, why shouldn't we concede to the superiority of Sri Lankan SF who actually ended it?

Do you guys just read the comment and write as fast you can without understanding the crux of the discussion?

Or do I have to add /s on every comment because you guys are tone deaf and can't read what's clearly written ironically?

 

[The Saffron Knight]

Why don't these [REDACTED] read the context or follow up comments before they reply?




Do you guys just read the comment and write as fast you can without understanding the crux of the discussion?

Or do I have to add /s on every comment because you guys are tone deaf and can't read what's clearly written ironically?

Ya obviously when people make stupid comments like "why Indian SF didn't wipe out LTTE" like comment.

[Redacted] you know right what the Lankns did to wipe out LTTE ?

 

[rohit b3]

Because Israel is barely the size of Goa, outnumbered and surrounded by much more numerous and hostile force and still beats them soundly?
Do you not factor in the size and budget of their military and compare it to ours or their neighbors?

No, you're not a villain for bringing out 50 year old success stories. You are a villain for deluding yourself and your own people by claiming Indian forces stand equal to troops with far more budget, training and sophisticated pipeline. This induces complacency and complacency kills.
If I start bringing out failure stories, you'll be bleating away with anger because it involves our troops dying. It's a touchy topic so I stay away from it.

I'm taking about the past (pre 2010) as it pertains to the discussion. Americunts had better education back then.
Pura comment padh bhai.

Main inhi bhai sahab ka logic laga raha hun. He's saying Americans failed in Afghanistan and India succeeded in Kashmir so naturally Indian SOFs need no lessons from Americans.


Similarly, where India failed in front of LTTE, why shouldn't we concede to the superiority of Sri Lankan SF who actually ended it?

Toh unka neighbors kaunsa badha "Pakistan/China" hain? And how much direct/indirect support does Israel get from the West in these wars? Btw fun fact : Even Indian troops are deployed in those areas under UN caps. Most likely some contingents of PARA/PARA SF too.
Never the less, not taking any credit from them. Israeli forces are highly capable. But so are their Indian counterparts.

"Far more training and sophisticated pipeline" toh aap computer screen aur keyboard ke peeche se bol rahe ho naa. PARA SF ka 1 year basic training hota hain. Post that almost 2 years of advanced training in various institutions. How many days of that training you have attended to come to the conclusion?

Again i am repeating for the 1102324th time. Most of their equipment/training/ethos, etc are classified. I am not trying to pretend to be an expert and know what goes on behind closed doors. i am only concerned about the success...be it 50 year old 1971...or 21 Year old Sierra Leone or 7 year old ...Pakistan raids.
And most importantly. The stability even after 40 year old ongoing COIN in Kashmir and 50 year old ongoing in NE and thousands for ops linked to it.


And Indian SOF need no lessons from US SOFs? Hell no, i never said that! Weapons/Equipment training, logistics training and implementation, etc, etc bahut sare aise areas hain where we benefit from them. there are surely other areas too which are discovered during the joint exercises.

But other areas...training, tactics , Sops and many more.. They take away from us.

You gave a funny example. Let me also give one. Take a group of experienced US Army Special forces with their best equipment and excellent marksmanship. From the Indian Side, take a similar number of Gorkhas with their average equipment.

When you drop both of them at 15,000-18,000 ft mountains to take out enemy positions.....and within the first day US units start getting sick and collapsing ...whats the use of those "sophisticated" equipment. Whats the use of your marksmanship training when ur not in a position to shoot at all?
You cant even reach your enemy
Meanwhile the Gorkhas.....well, do i need to say more?

 

[Arjun Mk1A]

This is reality of Civil war in Srilanka. Had few srilankan friends during school days, all of them ran away from their house since the army if found will kill all Male members and raped female members. Kill children without mercy, arrest folks for unknown reasons and he will never return. People died in seas since the illegal vessel which carried them capsized. There are families still today searching for their relatives after the decade of Civil war ended. Your house will be ransacked and only the walls will be remain since from Doors, windows to all valuables will be plundered.

Why this all happened because the LTTE is simply entrenched within normal people (something we are seeing in Kashmir, Naxals etc) . Initially SA tries to battle it out like we are doing in Kashmir but it does not work for them. But they don't have patience and decided to wipe them out.

If we want to happen. Then within months we can indiscriminately destroy the valley without checking, within a year expect refugee crisis similar to Lanka. After a decades we have an empty valley where we can fill them with some folks.

But you will loose your face in world stage. Something Sri lanka had like a badge.

 

[vidhwanshak]

Again i am repeating for the 1102324th time. Most of their equipment/training/ethos, etc are classified. I am not trying to pretend to be an expert and know what goes on behind closed doors. i am only concerned about the success...be it 50 year old 1971...or 21 Year old Sierra Leone or 7 year old ...Pakistan raids.
And most importantly. The stability even after 40 year old ongoing COIN in Kashmir and 50 year old ongoing in NE and thousands for ops linked to it.


But other areas...training, tactics , Sops and many more.. They take away from us.

kaha hai bhai idhar equipment?
andhera tha dikha nahi inhe aur civilians ko thok diya inhone.... kaha gya SOP? tactics? identify nhi kar paaye civvies ko ye log?

 

[Waanar]

Ya obviously when people make stupid comments like "why India SF didn't wipe out LTTE" like comment.

[Redacted] you know right what the Lanks did in to wipe out LTTE ?

रोहित जी का कहना है कि कश्मीर में भारतीय सेना जीत गई परन्तु अफगानस्तान में अमरीकी सेना और उनके विशेष गुथ और गिरोह हार गए। उनके हिसाब से यह एक प्रमाण है कि भारतिय सेना के विशेष बल अमरीकी सेना के विशेष बलों से ज़्यादा सक्षम हैं। जब हमने कहा कि वह एक अलग परिस्थिती में लड़ रहे थे तो रोहित की ने कहा कि उन्हें केवल अंतिम परिणाम स्वीकार है।
उनके इस जवाब पे मैंने यह कहा कि अगर हम आपके तर्क को अपना के चलें, तो श्री लंका की सेना भारतीय सेना से बेहतर हुई क्युकी उन्होंने तमिल एलाम को जंग में हरा दिया जो कि भारतीय सेना नहीं कर सकी।

अगर आप पिछले कमेंट्स पढ़ के बहस करेंगे तो शायद आपका दिल बदल जाए और आपका बहस करने का मन ही ना करे क्युकी जिस कारणवश आप हमसे बद्तमीज़ी कर रहे हैं, उस कारण का मैं स्वयं विरोधी हूं।

मुझे बक्ष दें।

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

43:10
@rohit b3
Ex major 4 para sf saying , we have long way to go and we are not better than sas or seals but we can be there "someday" .

Blunt as it is... Most people dont make it to the top because they have a problem.

Even if you are average the Army tries that you atleast retire with a rank of Lt Col and earn decent pension.

Anyone retiring below that would have had some problem in him or in the system.

And i am sorry to say that but its mostly correct.

The Army doesnt need people who talk loose and are cocky.

Such people get others killed in war.

Have a false superiority complex of themseves and are no good for the system.

System needs people who say less study more.

 

[rohit b3]

This is reality of Civil war in Srilanka. Had few srilankan friends during school days, all of them ran away from their house since the army if found will kill all Male members and raped female members. Kill children without mercy, arrest folks for unknown reasons and he will never return. People died in seas since the illegal vessel which carried them capsized. There are families still today searching for their relatives after the decade of Civil war ended. Your house will be ransacked and only the walls will be remain since from Doors, windows to all valuables will be plundered.

Why this all happened because the LTTE is simply entrenched within normal people (something we are seeing in Kashmir, Naxals etc) . Initially SA tries to battle it out like we are doing in Kashmir but it does not work for them. But they don't have patience and decided to wipe them out.

If we want to happen. Then within months we can indiscriminately destroy the valley without checking, within a year expect refugee crisis similar to Lanka. After a decades we have an empty valley where we can fill them with some folks.

But you will loose your face in world stage. Something Sri lanka had like a badge.

Did not know about these facts. Makes me respect the Indian Armed forces even more now.

 

[shouryav105]

Blunt as it is... Most people dont make it to the top because they have a problem.

Even if you are average the Army tries that you atleast retire with a rank of Lt Col and earn decent pension.

Anyone retiring below that would have had some problem in him or in the system.

And i am sorry to say that but its mostly correct.

The Army doesnt need people who talk loose and are cocky.

Such people get others killed in war.

Have a false superiority complex of themseves and are no good for the system.

System needs people who say less study more.

Are you indicating at him or the "other" major or both ?

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

This is reality of Civil war in Srilanka. Had few srilankan friends during school days, all of them ran away from their house since the army if found will kill all Male members and raped female members. Kill children without mercy, arrest folks for unknown reasons and he will never return. People died in seas since the illegal vessel which carried them capsized. There are families still today searching for their relatives after the decade of Civil war ended. Your house will be ransacked and only the walls will be remain since from Doors, windows to all valuables will be plundered.

Why this all happened because the LTTE is simply entrenched within normal people (something we are seeing in Kashmir, Naxals etc) . Initially SA tries to battle it out like we are doing in Kashmir but it does not work for them. But they don't have patience and decided to wipe them out.

If we want to happen. Then within months we can indiscriminately destroy the valley without checking, within a year expect refugee crisis similar to Lanka. After a decades we have an empty valley where we can fill them with some folks.

But you will loose your face in world stage. Something Sri lanka had like a badge.

So when Indian Army went first to Kashmir it raped too and so did it in Sri Lanka.

If i am not wrong Sikh regiment was the one in Sri lanka as well as in Kashmir.


Early 90s was such a time.

Then officers who were strict with discipline were called in the valley from outside and things changed slowly.

Point being every Army does rapes. I think it almost human nature to win wars.. feel invincible and to plunder and loot

India . sri lanka.. pakistan.. usa.. russia... everyone has done it

Why we shouldn't do it is because we need kashmir to be us.. and we cannot do such things in own territory.

Wars are brutal... There are many things an army does which is not correct but karna padta he. (i dont mean rape here)

 

[vidhwanshak]

Again i am repeating for the 1102324th time. Most of their equipment/training/ethos, etc are classified. I am not trying to pretend to be an expert and know what goes on behind closed doors. i am only concerned about the success...be it 50 year old 1971...or 21 Year old Sierra Leone or 7 year old ...Pakistan raids.
And most importantly. The stability even after 40 year old ongoing COIN in Kashmir and 50 year old ongoing in NE and thousands for ops linked to it.

Haan ab failures bhi to dekh
1. Arunachal and Naga me civilians killed
2. yaad hai pampore encounter 2016 jab building me chuppe the ye log? 3 of 9 para sf killed
3. OP sarp vinaash, pata nahi idhar kya hi hua tha... double digit casualty for para sf.
There are n ops jaha pe fails hue hai koi nahi bataayega vo. files me humesha dabb ke rah jaaenge. aur kabhi kabhi to saale failed ops ke liye bhi de dete hai ye log medals. jo mayanmar me surgical strike hue the. 1 hi sucessful tha second wala fail tha poora. ye bhi nahi pata ki vo log sach me mayanmaar me gai the ke nahi.

Lt. Col Nectar Subraminum was awarded KC for a failed ops. kahe ka chutiya bana rahe ho yaar ?

Equipment hai nahi, fir kaise hue special aap? bas normal infantry se zaada goli chaliyi hai aur thoda jaada endurance and strength hai baan gaye special hum log lag gaya "Special Forces" ka tag.

 

[rohit b3]

रोहित जी का कहना है कि कश्मीर में भारतीय सेना जीत गई परन्तु अफगानस्तान में अमरीकी सेना और उनके विशेष गुथ और गिरोह हार गए। उनके हिसाब से यह एक प्रमाण है कि भारतिय सेना के विशेष बल अमरीकी सेना के विशेष बलों से ज़्यादा सक्षम हैं। जब हमने कहा कि वह एक अलग परिस्थिती में लड़ रहे थे तो रोहित की ने कहा कि उन्हें केवल अंतिम परिणाम स्वीकार है।
उनके इस जवाब पे मैंने यह कहा कि अगर हम आपके तर्क को अपना के चलें, तो श्री लंका की सेना भारतीय सेना से बेहतर हुई क्युकी उन्होंने तमिल एलाम को जंग में हरा दिया जो कि भारतीय सेना नहीं कर सकी।

अगर आप पिछले कमेंट्स पढ़ के बहस करेंगे तो शायद आपका दिल बदल जाए और आपका बहस करने का मन ही ना करे क्युकी जिस कारणवश आप हमसे बद्तमीज़ी कर रहे हैं, उस कारण का मैं स्वयं विरोधी हूं।

मुझे बक्ष दें।
View attachment 161630

I just learnt about the Sri Lankan case from some of the comments. If thats the story behind it, then the "End result" is not a success.
And im not misbehaving with anyone. .I have even accepted many of the points thrown at me. No one is 100% gyaani. Even im learning new things as we go.

But my view still stands. US/Uk forces are over rated. Indian forces are under rated. Lets rate them as they deserve.

 

[rohit b3]

kaha hai bhai idhar equipment?
andhera tha dikha nahi inhe aur civilians ko thok diya inhone.... kaha gya SOP? tactics? identify nhi kar paaye civvies ko ye log?

100% success hona hain..nahi toh pura ZERO? hmm?
SF carry a 30 kgs battle load. I guess they should have opened their back packs aur ek bagpack tour de diya hota on camera.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Are you indicating at him or the "other" major or both ?

I havent seen the other Majors interviews honestly because such interviews are getting boring and monotonous for me.

I am not a16 year old wanting to join Army. So for me something sensible, educative, thoughful would be more interesting.

I am Rambo.. I am Rambo makes me bored.

 

[India Super Power]

If you know anything about what Western SOFs have done in the last 20 years you’d never question which is more successful.

Forget Afghanistan and Iraq that saw 10,000s of successful Ops most far far more dynamic than the type of COIN/CT ops Indian SFs have done in the same period. They’ve conducted the ‘true’ SOF missions (behind enemy lines small team Ops, long range CSAR of downed aircrew, hostage rescues on foreign soil, elimination of HVT etc etc) whilst Indian SFs are at best launching daytime CASOs. OBL, captain Phillips, Baghdadi etc etc. Indian SFs haven’t conducted anything so significant in living memory. Almost everything Indian SFs have done in the last 30 years could’ve been achieved by infantry or law enforcement of a developed country aside from the odd few

Every year such idiots come derail thread and we waste our time trying to make them understand
He thinks everything is war many things are beyond it and below and to maintain your sovereignty power and security u need most sharpest force that is sf
Our sf is pathetic and not made for modern war and they are deem to lose with this attitude