Indian Special Forces

ALBY

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And low-vis EDC holsters are easily available to the soldiers here in India?
This might have been true 30 years ago but you can get low-vis EDC holsters easily nowadays, tucking a pistol into your waistband is not only stupid it's impractical.

And it's a fact that the Glock specifically is designed to be holstered at all times when not needed, the makers will tell you that.


Again, people need to stop making excuses for the indefensible, the waistband stuff is amateur and illiterate behaviour.
Manytimes guys ask their friends or cousins in USA to buy holsters for Glocks as standard issue ones not that good..
 

ManhattanProject

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Nope. Only partially true. If there is only a slight pressure and not full squeeze of both triggers the gun wont fire.
The presence of foreign object will result in fire if that foreign objects pressure is enough to fully squeeze the socalled passive trigger system.In real life situations while the glock is tucked into the right side of your jeans chances of such accidents is minimal.
Holsters are made for a purpose. Yes. But in a covert work especially when yiu are in plain clothes, holsters wont be a practical thing, also tucking pistols into shoes and all those things arr comfortable only in movies. In real life you are taught to tuck the pistol into right side of waist under tge shirt and i had never heard of any accidental firing in doing so.
Yes if you dont pull "both triggers" the gun wont fire, its a passive safety which means the operator does not have to worry about disengaging any kind of safety before pulling the trigger. It was never meant to be a manual safety, it was only meant to make the gun drop safe which means you can drop it from a building and it wont fire. You point and shoot, no manual safety. This makes trigger discipline and firearms safety very very important while operating a glock. Holsters are made to cover the trigger guard, so no foreign object or even you finger gets into the trigger guard and cause a negligent discharge.
Inside the waist holsters and new techniques like appendix carry are especially meant for concealing a gun.

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ALBY

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Manytimes guys ask their friends or cousins in USA to buy holsters for Glocks as standard issue ones not that good..
Dont know it is taught in military academy but in various police academies holsters are not issued while training. Anyway thanks to youtube many trainers are askjng cadets to hold the pistols just like official site of glock says how to do or like many other sites says to hold. Its not a leap forward but something is slowly changing
 

ManhattanProject

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They’ll have to pay a ridiculous amount on customs duty (40-45% of its value for most goods), which becomes extremely unaffordable. I remember @AVINASH4061 sir saying on one of his podcasts that he was lucky his wife worked in Air India on flights to the US, so he was able to purchase his gear at reasonable prices(already out of reach for most jawans and leaving officers who can afford it).
Why arent these things provided by the army?
Send a c17 to USA buy in bulk😂.
 

rkhanna

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Ya'll Nibbiars

Ironically most SF veterans will agree with the critisism (most) on this thread.

Conversely training of a Man will always work within the confines of tactics and equipment which are inturn dictated by National strategy.

No national SOF strategy = mediocre training infra and Medicore kit = results in confused selection and utilisation of resources.
 

ManhattanProject

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Ironically most SF veterans will agree with the critisism (most) on this thread.

Conversely training of a Man will always work within the confines of tactics and equipment which are inturn dictated by National strategy.

No national SOF strategy = mediocre training infra and Medicore kit = results in confused selection and utilisation of resources.
You remember when @AVINASH4061 came in and actually agreed with us over the mistreatment and criminal neglect faced by para sf?
Before that the Jai Ho types insisted para sf had a secret stash of equipment which they only used during "secret missions".
 

Bhumihar

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In 1971 we were spending 7% of GDP and in an economic crises with sub Saharan level eco indicators.

Guns Vs Butter - butter always wins because history has shown that growing GNP is the singular best national defence strategy.


How about butter from guns, the American model, butter in India isn't under pressure because of misplaced priorities but institutional corruption.
 

rkhanna

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How about butter from guns, the American model, butter in India isn't under pressure because of misplaced priorities but institutional corruption.
The above graph is a time stamp. only guns over a long period leads to a Soviet style economic collapse. Pakistan js a living example.

And it's not about corruption. We spend less on education and healthcare per capita than military. How many people died during Covid not because of Covid but because hospitals were shut it djdnt have infra ?

The ONLY ones who have merged guns and butter is the Chinese where the CCP owns bkth industry and the Military. Sadly I wouldn't touch such a society with a barge pole

Again National Security is not just the purview of the military. Increase GNP and Natsec solves itself to a large extent.


Anywys all this is OT. Back to SF.

We don't have a sniper school, combat medic school, shit comms, shit isr and/or mobility to power project in our neighborhood. We have ZERO night fighting capability today. Giving nods means squat if the rest of logistics chain is night blind.

If we have none of the above how can our training be up to par ? Because our boys can run 100 miles up and down a mountain in battle gear ?
 

rkhanna

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You remember when @AVINASH4061 came in and actually agreed with us over the mistreatment and criminal neglect faced by para sf?
Before that the Jai Ho types insisted para sf had a secret stash of equipment which they only used during "secret missions".
The Major simply reiterated what my family members have said for sometime now.

Somewhere along the way in the 2000s with the sudden expansions we have lost our way. Even SF battalions today are not equal or treated equal or even have a standard selection process.
 

Marliii

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The Major simply reiterated what my family members have said for sometime now.

Somewhere along the way in the 2000s with the sudden expansions we have lost our way. Even SF battalions today are not equal or treated equal or even have a standard selection process.
Now I am more inclined if we start our SF from a clean state and build new forces that can co exist with the existing ones
 

rkhanna

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Now I am more inclined if we start our SF from a clean state and build new forces that can co exist with the existing ones
My 2 paisa worth. Carve out the current SF from Para. The. Raise a SOF force from within the current battalions and split them 40/60. Convert the 60% Commando force into a Ranger Type Tier II SOF support unit. The 40% will be the primary SOF unit. From that raise 1 battalion worth of a tier 1 capability along with a support unit like ISA

Complement this with a complete paradigm shift in training infra and kit.
 

SGOperative

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The above graph is a time stamp. only guns over a long period leads to a Soviet style economic collapse. Pakistan js a living example.

And it's not about corruption. We spend less on education and healthcare per capita than military. How many people died during Covid not because of Covid but because hospitals were shut it djdnt have infra ?

The ONLY ones who have merged guns and butter is the Chinese where the CCP owns bkth industry and the Military. Sadly I wouldn't touch such a society with a barge pole

Again National Security is not just the purview of the military. Increase GNP and Natsec solves itself to a large extent.


Anywys all this is OT. Back to SF.

We don't have a sniper school, combat medic school, shit comms, shit isr and/or mobility to power project in our neighborhood. We have ZERO night fighting capability today. Giving nods means squat if the rest of logistics chain is night blind.

If we have none of the above how can our training be up to par ? Because our boys can run 100 miles up and down a mountain in battle gear ?
Sniper School is coming and Night Fighting SF is lacking is not blind Avinash Sir did clarify this. Combat Medic School?
 

rkhanna

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Sniper School is coming and Night Fighting SF is lacking is not blind Avinash Sir did clarify this. Combat Medic School?
It 2021 and we are setting up a sniper school for Infantry now. That's how far behind we are. Do we even know the purpose of a sniper ?

Nighting fighting is not about doing CQB with NVGs and suppressors. Can our ISR operate at night ? Will the qrf? Our helos ? An SOF unit does not fight in isolation.

PS Google the capabilities of US SOF combat medics , navy corpsman etc. Eye opener really. In an article I read they shoot a cow or a goat and then the operator has to literally do surgery in the field to save the animals life
 

SGOperative

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It 2021 and we are setting up a sniper school for Infantry now. That's how far behind we are. Do we even know the purpose of a sniper ?

Nighting fighting is not about doing CQB with NVGs and suppressors. Can our ISR operate at night ? Will the qrf? Our helos ? An SOF unit does not fight in isolation.

PS Google the capabilities of US SOF combat medics , navy corpsman etc. Eye opener really. In an article I read they shoot a cow or a goat and then the operator has to literally do surgery in the field to save the animals life
They are not blind at night, Army and AF helos pilots use NVGs.. Our major platforms are not lacking. What we have been lacking was on personal soldier level. AMC is there for the most part. We do not have PJs thats what i agree to.
SF personal are lacking in Night but not Blind.
 

rkhanna

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They are not blind at night, Army and AF helos pilots use NVGs.. Our major platforms are not lacking. What we have been lacking was on personal soldier level. AMC is there for the most part. We do not have PJs thats what i agree to.
SF personal are lacking in Night but not Blind.
Sirji I would request you to talk to any AAC pilot on their NVG capabilities in the fleet, their training levels on the same and their ability to apply those NVGs in SOF battlefield spectrum (i.e nap of the earth flying )

Our BMPs don't have NVGs.

Again SF soldiers having NODs is one tiny piece of night fighting. Across the logistics chain er have near zero capability. Even if we have it now it's new and nacasent and will take us sometime to master it on a combined arms level.

Taking an SOF solider in isolation and removing him from a combined arms set up is mising the forest for the trees. All the Gucci gear in the world will not result in a quantum jump in capability
 

SGOperative

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Sirji I would request you to talk to any AAC pilot on their NVG capabilities in the fleet, their training levels on the same and their ability to apply those NVGs in SOF battlefield spectrum (i.e nap of the earth flying )

Our BMPs don't have NVGs.

Again SF soldiers having NODs is one tiny piece of night fighting. Across the logistics chain er have near zero capability. Even if we have it now it's new and nacasent and will take us sometime to master it on a combined arms level.
Talking on the same, Army has a dedicated sqd for SOF now. Ofc you dont master them in one day and takes time and with limited resources it becomes harder. But to say that SF are just plain blind in night is an overstatement.
 

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