Indian Special Forces

[Fire and groove]

I was watching collateral (excellent movie/ John wick but better) the other day and remembered that Vincent uses the Mozambique drill, I feel like we should have a discussion regarding it's efficacy in combat. I've always been skeptical about lining up a headshot when dealing with a threat.

 

[rkhanna]

AFSOD needs 3000 commnados so to arm them some purchases have to be made.hope they go for some good equipment and lead the way for other SFs

IMO AFSOD should not be more than 600 assault troops divided into 4 teams of 150 each. 2 units deployed and 2 in training and rotating on 4-6 month basis. 150-200 more for Intelligence and logistics support or work very closely with SG for the ISA type function.

Anything more is the same pig with new lipstick.

 

[Marliii]

I was watching collateral (excellent movie/ John wick but better) the other day and remembered that Vincent uses the Mozambique drill, I feel like we should have a discussion regarding it's efficacy in combat. I've always been skeptical about lining up a headshot when dealing with a threat.

2 chest shots +1 head shot is enough to put any mullah out so Mozambique is effective

 

[Aditya Roy]

NSG...most probably 51 SAG

 

[Inderjeet Singh]

IMO AFSOD should not be more than 600 assault troops divided into 4 teams of 150 each. 2 units deployed and 2 in training and rotating on 4-6 month basis. 150-200 more for Intelligence and logistics support or work very closely with SG for the ISA type function.

Anything more is the same pig with new lipstick.

Yes they prefer quantity over quality take a example Dutch special forces they are 300-400 in strength top notch equipped and deployed in all major conflict areas like Afghanistan , Africa Mali

 

[Marliii]

Yes they prefer quantity over quality take a example Dutch special forces they are 300-400 in strength top notch equipped and deployed in all major conflict areas like Afghanistan , Africa Mali

If they equip them well they will be a gamechanger for all special forces units in india.if it is the usual then they are just para sf +marcos+garuds

 

[Scramjet]

whats the point of a non ballistic helmet of you are not going to mount anything to it?

Most likely for blunt trauma protection while para jumping instead of these helmets :
Edit: just got to know that marcos are using bump helmets during jumps too

 

[Aditya Roy]

Yes they prefer quantity over quality take an example Dutch special forces they are 300-400 in strength top-notch equipped and deployed in all major conflict areas like Afghanistan, Africa Mali

Yes, but we need more Airborne infantry battalions and standardization of weapons, tactical equipment and training. Indian army lacks the culture of developing training manuals i.e. handbooks. The army should pioneer research and innovation. Such temperament is missing in India.

 

[Aditya Roy]

Also, we depend too much on government organizations like the DRDO etc. What's stopping the army to go and invest in scientific research institutes like IITs, IISC etc. Give the university some grant, hire the researchers, engineers etc. temporarily and get them to work on the things you want instead of relying upon slow orgs. like DRDO and others. Also, the defence forces can learn a lot from the IIMs in terms of HRM and lean management.

 

[t 90s]

Also, we depend too much on government organizations like the DRDO etc. What's stopping the army to go and invest in scientific research institutes like IITs, IISC etc. Give the university some grant, hire the researchers, engineers etc. temporarily and get them to work on the things you want instead of relying upon slow orgs. like DRDO and others. Also, the defence forces can learn a lot from the IIMs in terms of HRM and lean management.

Defence manufacturing is a complicated matter. Chinese students are stealing know how from US universities left right and centre & taking it back to China.

 

[rkhanna]

Defence manufacturing is a complicated matter. Chinese students are stealing know how from US universities left right and centre & taking it back to China.

Every country does that from one another. The American, Brits south Koreans japnese Australians. Google something called the Echelon program. What's our excuse?

 

[Aditya Ballal]

Defence manufacturing is a complicated matter. Chinese students are stealing know how from US universities left right and centre & taking it back to China.

Even our guys who go there get the same know how, but they don’t comeback to India unlike the Chinese ,as I feel our guys assimilate more easily to the American culture and not wanting compete to the level they’d need to here and not deal with the lack of initial opportunities and bureaucracy. The Chinese students have a lot more incentive to go back to their home country and get well paying jobs and opportunities.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

Every country does that from one another. The American, Brits south Koreans japnese Australians. Google something called the Echelon program. What's our excuse?

@rkhanna i think I’ve partially answered your question.

 

[Killbot]

Who do you propose takes over the bulk of the Anti Naxal, Anti Riot, VIP Protection duty, Election security etc?
You can’t have the local police do anti riot once the situation goes upside down as they’re viewed as the opponent and central forces are seen as neutral forces to an extent. For election duties I don’t trust the State Police forces of any state during elections.
For a country as diverse as India we need strong central forces as state forces are not really effective in all cases.

The above roles should be all of CRPF's jurisdiction. Rest should be delegated to state police. CRPF does not need 3 lakh plus, underequipped, under-trained soldiers. It should be much leaner, no more than a third of it's current size.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

The above roles should be all of CRPF's jurisdiction. Rest should be delegated to state police. CRPF does not need 3 lakh plus, underequipped, under-trained soldiers. It should be much leaner, no more than a third of it's current size.

What do you think their strength needs to be? @Fire and groove @Killbot
Also i think we should move our discussion to the CAPF or police forces thread.

 

[Aditya Roy]

Defence manufacturing is a complicated matter. Chinese students are stealing know how from US universities left right and centre & taking it back to China.

We don't have researchers from hostile countries working in our top institutes. Unfortunately, there's no comparison between India and the USA. Moreover, there are confidentiality, NDA etc. agreements that come under the legal domain, that up to the agencies to sort out.

 

[aystle]

Beyond unprofessional and just plain dumb

Those bullets go up and come back down again, are they jihadis in Pakistan/Iraq or well trained disciplined soldiers?

Genuinely disturbed to see this, if there was any integrity or sense inside the Army HQ everyone involved in this debacle would be facing disciplinary action and strict revised SOPs would be enforced

I think those are captured Ammos' of Terrorist.

 

[aystle]

NSG...most probably 51 SAG

They're still looking like Nude infront of European Counter Terror Agencies/ptu.

 

[abingdonboy]

Does anyone else think the NSG patch on their uniforms are bit too bright if they wear them during ops?

You won't find any images of NSG SAG in an operational role (on a mission/drill) with any such badges, this is for public displays only.


The only things they wear are low vis (grey) rank epaulets

recently they've had "NSG" identifying patches on their quarter zips

SAG also have small role identifying patches on back of their helmets but I won't get into this on a public forum

I think a large portion of CRPF should be dissolved into regular police. It's an outdated and extremely bloated force that's eating funds like no other. It would be much smarter for us to have localized SWAT teams on rotation (regular policing one week, SWAT duty next kinda thing) across the country instead of having a force that's barely deployed beyond Kashmir and NE. It'll cut down on deployment time, and make us far more flexible. Oh and I totally agree with this Mahilla battalion pandering. Either implement a proper system or just don't bother.

What CRPF is actively doing is going from a largely unskilled entity to carving out more and more specialist capabilities/sub-units from its own manpower, from the top of my head:

PDG
SDG
VSG
CoBRA
RAF
QAT*

*not actually raised at a battalion strength


so basically they are trying to convert as many of their "vanilla"/regular battalions into force multipliers/specialists with specific mandates so they can do more than just flag marches and stand around with a lathi

My hope would be that CRPF transforms itself into a professional police force- no longer a paramilitary force. They should be present in every state to assist local/state law enforcement in law enforcement tasks, the days of India needing paramilitary forces in large numbers is largely over, heavy attention though needs to be given to improving law and order and the policeman per capita figures.

I'm sure CRPF will change a lot in the coming decades, MHA actually seems to have quite a bit of dynamism these days.

AFSOD needs 3000 commnados so to arm them some purchases have to be made.hope they go for some good equipment and lead the way for other SFs

IMO AFSOD should not be more than 600 assault troops divided into 4 teams of 150 each. 2 units deployed and 2 in training and rotating on 4-6 month basis. 150-200 more for Intelligence and logistics support or work very closely with SG for the ISA type function.

Anything more is the same pig with new lipstick.

Once again people are forgetting what AFSOD is- it is NOT a new unit, it is a new C&C structure being tried out on a small scale with the expectation it will one day be expanded into a full-fledged Command (IN-SOCOM/SOCOM-IN). So one day operational and command control Garuds/MARCOs/PARA (SF) will hopefully be moved out out of their respective service HQs and directly under a SF CO so that SFs are represented in the same way as conventional area commands.

What you are describing is a new special missions unit carved out of the SF community, that's an entirely different effort and has not got anything to do with AFSOD's remit.

 

[abingdonboy]

Then we got the mahila battalions and mahila commando battalion. I mean why?

I am all for women equality but is this equality or show bazi? Will a female terroist come and ask us if she can only fight mahila commando as it would be haram to fight males?

This has got to be the most ret@rded thing I have seen in a while, more female police officers on patrol is a good thing to make women feel safer and to be more open in approaching police but

West Bengal and Delhi (I'm sure there are others) are raising all female SWAT/CT police units, what exactly is the role of this unit? To fight the notoriously all-female terrorist squads that attack? It's an objective fact that females are weaker and less competent in combat positions, creating an all female CT unit means you are already fighting with one hand tied behind your back all for what? To pose on social media?

And now CRPF is bragging about sending women to CoBRA battalions?

This WILL get men (and maybe even these very females) killed

Combat is the ultimate equaliser, Indians are too soft and stupid these days.

I can only imagine soon this nonsense will spread to the Army and there will be all female infantry battalions acting as a noose around the necks of division commanders soon enough, imagine if the Indian side at Galwan had been made up of small desi chicks


It seems like 99% of the 'work' of these all-female units is to stand around posing for cameras


there was a recent op in WB to take out Khalistanis, who Kolkata police give all their best gear to:

who they sent: