Indian Special Forces

NoobWannaLearn

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I really wish he does. Introduces more modularity like Spiritus!
Well the news is Cobras bought PCs yay Armasen and Olive planet ones only few units ofc great they bought Armasen Idk what to say about Olive planet they promise quality will increase but it never does so I will just keep mum and yes I mean Armasen is bound to expand maybe slowly but surely with the success they have achieved will try to ask if they have any plans for chest rigs
 

Jedi Operator

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NoobWannaLearn

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damn if anything it should be 2 instead of 13 joining the SF Regiment. What has 13 done ? 2 was in Cactus as well in Warwan valley but who am I to judge. At this point if they create an SF regiment I'd be more than happy
Yeah surely 2 has done much more as compare to the recently raised 13 but the thing is both the units have different specializations

If we transfer all the OG units like 2 and others than the remaining battalions under the PARA Regiment will have mostly recently raised units like 12,23&29!

Plus the recently converted units like 5,6&7 will be on their own with no experience as a SF!

And the thing is 13 will get the much needed experience apart from the recent in stints and will make up the manpower required for the new SF Regiment!
 

Alligator

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I have question.
People here keep saying para sf is too big after latest conversion but if you look at green beret operational structure, they have 7 sf groups out of which 5 groups have 4 battalions & 2 groups have 3 battalions for a total of 26 battalions .
In contrast para sf has only 15 battalions despite Indian army being nearly 3x the size of us army . Why is this so ?
 

kaboom

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I have question.
People here keep saying para sf is too big after latest conversion but if you look at green beret operational structure, they have 7 sf groups out of which 5 groups have 4 battalions & 2 groups have 3 battalions for a total of 26 battalions .
In contrast para sf has only 15 battalions despite Indian army being nearly 3x the size of us army . Why is this so ?
From what i understand , what SF means for US and IA are different .They use them differently .

US deploys a lot of SF elements to various parts of the world as it is directly or indirectly involved in all the conflicts out there , Green B are deployed actively in numerous locations and thus have a large size . Also apart from deployment they are actively operating too in jobs that is actually meant for SF also they have a humongous budget thus their all men are properly trained and equipped .
Fun fact : some men from each green team is specialized is some foreign languages.( can't find something like that in here ), this jus shows how externally oriented they are .

On the case of India , we almost never deploy SF elements abroad to do active ops . The teams existing are also mostly deployed in CI/CT of which many of the ops should not be their jobs .A large chunk of them are poorly equipped, trained and commanded and controlled . We are virtually wasting fine men who could have been damm good operators . They are not even spending a fraction of what is needed to keep them effective .
So, the thing is if you are underutilizing and underequipping your most elite troops and are planning to use them as specialized infantry , whats the point of converting them to SF let them be as airborne . Also a lot of the recently converted units are nowhere fit to be even considered as SF .
 
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JConline

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I have question.
People here keep saying para sf is too big after latest conversion but if you look at green beret operational structure, they have 7 sf groups out of which 5 groups have 4 battalions & 2 groups have 3 battalions for a total of 26 battalions .
In contrast para sf has only 15 battalions despite Indian army being nearly 3x the size of us army . Why is this so ?
Mandate, responsibility etc etc. Indian SF mandate is a tiny fraction of what it is for the Green Berets. The GBs act on many roles spread far and wide across the world. Indian SF donot. In the AO that Indian SF operate in, we are too large in number. To the point that multiple battalions are operating in the same AO. The recent conversion of Airborne to SF has also diluted the SF pool. Moreover, it also leads to uneven standardization due to a lot of unit purchases. We only recently have AFSOD which doesn't even function like JSOC. So the setup we have now, Para SF is definitely too big for that setup. Moving forward if we really do have a functional AFSOD, a separate SF and another Airborne SF distinction then we'll able to properly divide and distribute the mandate and equip accordingly which is starting to happen now.
I predict that the newly formed SF comprising of the top teams will get the latest and greatest. Arads, binods, belts etc etc. The Airborne SF will get the old M4s, new Flat Top tavors, PCs, high cuts and maybe mono NVGs. The likes of what we saw on Army Day this year. And the old Tavors will be moved down to the Ghatak Units.
 

NoobWannaLearn

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I have question.
People here keep saying para sf is too big after latest conversion but if you look at green beret operational structure, they have 7 sf groups out of which 5 groups have 4 battalions & 2 groups have 3 battalions for a total of 26 battalions .
In contrast para sf has only 15 battalions despite Indian army being nearly 3x the size of us army . Why is this so ?
The thing is US Army SF operates all over the word, Each Command spread across the World has its own SF groups!

US SF which has almost 55-65K SF operatives which include, Army SF, DEVGRu, SFOD-D, Rangers, Navy Seals, 24STS, MARSOC!

Here PARA SF has approx 15SF + 1 CDO batallion which forms a 15K strong force!

PARA SF operates inside India only(UN missions excluded) where for example NE has 3 dedicated SF units plus 2 units under the 50 PARA brigade serving their in tenures and Paramilitary like Vikas battalions and SG along with CRPF COBRAs and State police STFs also operating in the same AOR!


Here in Kashmir, 4&9 is constantly here as they are under the NC!

Units like 5,7&23 also spend have tenures here along with small teams from 1,6,10,12& 23 also wandering for some kills...

With offcourse JKP SOG, NSG CRPF QAT, SG, other SFF units also gaining experience!
 

Alligator

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From what i understand , what SF means for US and IA are different .They use them differently .

US deploys a lot of SF elements to various parts of the world as it is directly or indirectly involved in all the conflicts out there , Green B are deployed actively in numerous locations and thus have a large size . Also apart from deployment they are actively operating too in jobs that is actually meant for SF also they have a humongous budget thus their all men are properly trained and equipped .
Fun fact : some men from each green team is specialized is some foreign languages.( can't find something like that in here ), this jus shows how externally oriented they are .

On the case of India , we almost never deploy SF elements abroad to do active ops . The teams existing are also mostly deployed in CI/CT of which many of the ops should not be their jobs .A large chunk of them are poorly equipped, trained and commanded and controlled . We are virtually wasting fine men who could have been damm good operators . They are not even spending a fraction of what is needed to keep them effective .
So, the thing is if you are underutilizing and underequipping your most elite troops and are planning to use them as specialized infantry , whats the point of converting them to SF let them be as airborne . Also a lot of the recently converted units are nowhere fit to be even considered as SF .
Yes , sf mandate for USA and India are different, USA doesn't have 2 active borders with nuclear armed neighbours , we do . Pak have 9 ssg battalions, china has 2 sf brigades facing India doesn't that necessitate having parity with our adversaries ?
As far as foreign deployments go , it's almost a given that we have some form of sf presence in SAARC countries atleast, with growing foreign policy engagement and rising economy don't you think we'll want to extend that reach to South East asia , middle East and Africa atleast? Both these points justify expansion of para sf imo.
I do agree with you about ci/ct , but if you look at the current trend entire northern and eastern commands are re orienting to the china threat from ci/ct focus , this would hopefully bring a change in sf deployments in the years to come
 

boris

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The US Army SF has a completely different mandate, tbf they're a very unique force and can't be compared to the SF's around the world. Their main jobs are UW and FID i.e linking up with indigenous forces, training them, and fighting alongside them. At the start of GWOT, they were dropped in for linking up with the Northern Alliance and fighting alongside them to topple the Taliban. This is precisely the kind of ops they're meant for and that's why it's crucial for them to know the language and culture of the area they operate in, otherwise they won't be able to do UW and FID very well. While they do have units capable of DA, that isn't their primary focus.

Most other SF units around the world specialize in all the various types of ops expected to be done by an SF units, the US Army SF focuses majorly on UW and FID alone because of the sheer size of USSOCOM, budget and the fact that they've multiple units to strictly focus on certain specializations.
 

Kumaoni

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Yaar I have a feeling that we might learn from other people's mistakes but seeing that we have historically been pretty bad at doing that I am doubtfull. All I can think is that Kashmir, if errupts wont happen until 2029-2030. That would be like Operation Parakram 2.0 but different

This new type of war would use special operations forces combined with proxies, drones, advanced technology, and social media to attack an enemy simultaneously in military, political, and social spheres. Its tactics include the use of proxy organizations, state-sponsored bombings, transnational terror organizations, information warfare, and the manipulation of media.
You overestimate Kashmir. Go in India Pak conflict thread. All 2024 there hasn’t been one encounter since January. These PAFF ran back and struggling to re enter. They bit off far more than they could ever chew.
As far as PAFF guys are not eliminated the threat is still there and insurgency of kashmir is not going anywhere it will popup every now and then
The threat is still there but it seems to be dying down. Expect something around the time of april-may if you do expect anything.
 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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These PAFF ran back and struggling to re enter. They bit off far more than they could ever chew.
This is a very biased view.

Those ranges have thick snow these days..i was in Srinagar last week..saw entire pir panjal covered in thick snow from my own eyes.

PAFF are hiding until summer comes...

Lets just agree we couldnt hunt them.
 

NoobWannaLearn

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This is a very biased view.

Those ranges have thick snow these days..i was in Srinagar last week..saw entire pir panjal covered in thick snow from my own eyes.

PAFF are hiding until summer comes...

Lets just agree we couldnt hunt them.
It may look like a biased view but it is what it is!

Yeah there is snow these days and the entire Pir Panjal is covered in it, without going into the details I can tell you that something is going on...

PAFF is just the Social media wing of the joint LET-JEM-Al Badr cadre...

They are roaches hiding in caves in the forest range... They surely will try do something in the summers but will be dealt appropriately!

Our boiz are all over there doing what they are meant to do...

My view the op we started probably showed some results
 

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