Indian Special Forces

AVINASH4061

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@AVINASH4061 sir how much importance is given to unarmed combat in sf? Can u share about type of unarmed combat training in Indian sf, if you want to.
The morning PT includes a few basic and essential moves of unarmed combat. The onus lies on the operator to practice and invest time to master whatever he feels is important
 

abingdonboy

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Took me a while to get to this

so what exactly is this guy’s issue? All the top (domestic) CT units in Europe (like GIGN, GSG9, DSI etc) are made up 100% of police personnel. What is so unique about army personnel that they cannot be replaced in this specialist role?SPG doesn’t recruit any army personnel.

and the ultimate irony here is that for years there’s been friction between MoD and MHA on army deputations to NSG, the army has made it increasingly restrictive for their members to join NSG

Anyway NSG knows what it is doing, their modernisation has put the PARA (SF) to shame, they are far more innovative and adopt technology across the board, this al under IPS leadership.

the NSG has also re-organised so that CT roles are not exclusive to SAG (hence army personnel) anymore. Their hubs are home to SCGs (special composite groups) which are a mix of SAG and SRG personnel and are exclusively meant for CT ops.

within 5-10 years CAPF personnel could easily replace all army personnel within NSG and I think this should be pursued, having army members inside NSG has long since outlived its value
 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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Took me a while to get to this

so what exactly is this guy’s issue? All the top (domestic) CT units in Europe (like GIGN, GSG9, DSI etc) are made up 100% of police personnel. What is so unique about army personnel that they cannot be replaced in this specialist role?SPG doesn’t recruit any army personnel.

and the ultimate irony here is that for years there’s been friction between MoD and MHA on army deputations to NSG, the army has made it increasingly restrictive for their members to join NSG

Anyway NSG knows what it is doing, their modernisation has put the PARA (SF) to shame, they are far more innovative and adopt technology across the board, this al under IPS leadership.

the NSG has also re-organised so that CT roles are not exclusive to SAG (hence army personnel) anymore. Their hubs are home to SCGs (special composite groups) which are a mix of SAG and SRG personnel and are exclusively meant for CT ops.

within 5-10 years CAPF personnel could easily replace all army personnel within NSG and I think this should be pursued, having army members inside NSG has long since outlived its value
The core issue is the same like Indian society ie Casteism.

Only we(Faujis) can deal with it cos we are upper caste in warfare.

All this nonsense has to leave if we have to have a effective unit.

Army should focus on SOCOM and not make it a Amphibious Brigade type of circus once in few years for exercises.

I have no hope from SOCOM.I feel in the 80s we were less mentally challenged than we are today where our SF sent operators to learn and train all across the world and bring back lessons and adopt.
 

abingdonboy

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The core issue is the same like Indian society ie Casteism.

Only we(Faujis) can deal with it cos we are upper caste in warfare.

All this nonsense has to leave if we have to have a effective unit.

Army should focus on SOCOM and not make it a Amphibious Brigade type of circus once in few years for exercises.

I have no hope from SOCOM.I feel in the 80s we were less mentally challenged than we are today where our SF sent operators to learn and train all across the world and bring back lessons and adopt.
It’s typical institutionalism- they favour the status quo and will try to keep others off what they perceive as ‘their’ turf.

that said the ‘CAPFisastion’ of NSG I would’ve thought would be welcomed by IA officers who have consistently moaned and b!tched about the cream of their units wanting to go off to NSG for 3 years. Unless they are concerned that it’ll mean that NSG starts to operate more independently from the IA in places They have traditionally considered ‘their’ turf aka JK and NE.

there’s a NSG detachment in JK but hasn’t been used in even a single operation there to date

SOCOM won’t help reform the mindset of the military but it’ll give MoD SF units a fighting chance of getting more specialist kit and in a timely manner

it’s up to the SF commanders after that to reform their capabilities and specialise their mission set
 

ManhattanProject

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It’s typical institutionalism- they favour the status quo and will try to keep others off what they perceive as ‘their’ turf.

that said the ‘CAPFisastion’ of NSG I would’ve thought would be welcomed by IA officers who have consistently moaned and b!tched about the cream of their units wanting to go off to NSG for 3 years. Unless they are concerned that it’ll mean that NSG starts to operate more independently from the IA in places They have traditionally considered ‘their’ turf aka JK and NE.

there’s a NSG detachment in JK but hasn’t been used in even a single operation there to date

SOCOM won’t help reform the mindset of the military but it’ll give MoD SF units a fighting chance of getting more specialist kit and in a timely manner

it’s up to the SF commanders after that to reform their capabilities and specialise their mission set
NSG are far more flexible, willing to learn, adopt and change with new technology and training.
 

abingdonboy

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The section splits in to a support gp and aslt gp when required. Also remember the tasking dictates the kind of equipping too. Unfortunately the equipment profile is obsolete to have further divisions that can let a 4 man team achieve it's task. Also fighting the actual combat is very very different from clicking the mouse to fire a shot and pressing 'Ctrl C' to crouch. A 4 man team never wants to get in to an independent fire fight, doesn't matter which SF they are. Even the Green Berets have a 12 member fighting unit with all kinds of specialists.
At least in JK PARA (SF) often operate in 6 man squads though right?
 

abingdonboy

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Do you even know what STRATEGIC OPS mean???
Sir, how often do PARA SF battalions train as a battalion? Something that was supposedly borne out after the 2015 strikes in Myanmar was how often (or lack thereof) SF battalions trained above a team/platoon level. It was northern command’s instructions to rectify this for their SF battalions that enabled there to be high readiness for the 2016 post Uri surgical strike missions.

Has this been institutionalised or post 2016 with operational tempo being so high have they reverted to small team deployments?

IIRC during 2015 a 21 btn SF team had to be recalled to conduct the ops in Myanmar, I would posit that SFs being strategic assets need to have higher readiness to-be able to respond at a moment’s notice to any op that could come up, if they are spread that thin then options become very limited.

NSG has ready teams inside each hub and obviously the main CTTF based in Delhi, does each SF battalion have something similar (a team/platoon/company) ready year round (on a rotating basis of course)?
 

abingdonboy

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6 PARA (airborne), interesting to see the 716s in their hands, it wasn’t mentioned until now that anyone but conventional units would get the 716s, does this mean it’s also going to land in the hands of the SFs (in limited numbers)?

the IWI cans on the Tavor make it about as long as an M16, this is another area where Indian units are decades behind.
 

Automatic Kalashnikov

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6 PARA (airborne), interesting to see the 716s in their hands, it wasn’t mentioned until now that anyone but conventional units would get the 716s, does this mean it’s also going to land in the hands of the SFs (in limited numbers)?

the IWI cans on the Tavor make it about as long as an M16, this is another area where Indian units are decades behind.
It is already in limited numbers with Para SF, pics were posted on this thread or the previous one.
 

Maitreya Shyam

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Took me a while to get to this

so what exactly is this guy’s issue? All the top (domestic) CT units in Europe (like GIGN, GSG9, DSI etc) are made up 100% of police personnel. What is so unique about army personnel that they cannot be replaced in this specialist role?SPG doesn’t recruit any army personnel.

and the ultimate irony here is that for years there’s been friction between MoD and MHA on army deputations to NSG, the army has made it increasingly restrictive for their members to join NSG

Anyway NSG knows what it is doing, their modernisation has put the PARA (SF) to shame, they are far more innovative and adopt technology across the board, this al under IPS leadership.

the NSG has also re-organised so that CT roles are not exclusive to SAG (hence army personnel) anymore. Their hubs are home to SCGs (special composite groups) which are a mix of SAG and SRG personnel and are exclusively meant for CT ops.

within 5-10 years CAPF personnel could easily replace all army personnel within NSG and I think this should be pursued, having army members inside NSG has long since outlived its value
No their is police counterpart of gign that is RAID
 

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