Indian Special Forces

thefewthefearless

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So full of cr@p. They show the new stuff they’ve ordered in a handful of numbers (or not at all like FICV, ATAGS)
Sig-716
K9
Dhanush-45
Arjun
LCH etc etc


whilst their backbone continues to be soviet era junk like the BMP, T72/90, Grad etc.

as this is in the SF thread- also proudly showing off their ‘SF’ which looks barely better equipped than a state police force SWAT team at this point.
do they use suppressors?? except mp5
 

abingdonboy

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While the T-90s don't have swivel launchers for their grenades, they have gotten new IR smoke grenades and have been fitted with APS+MAWS since 2016. I am not aware of this upgrade being applied to T-72s, however since HVF's T-90s are replacing T-72s in multiple regiments, I'm not surprised
Again, not a single image exists of a T72/90 with APS/LWCS in Indian service
 

Corvus Splendens

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Again, not a single image exists of a T72/90 with APS/LWCS in Indian service
The only recent update the T-90S got was APU and Commander's Thermal Imaging Sight. The new batch of tanks get a better intercooler and air conditioning from the factory. Rafael's APS offer remains in powerpoint and scale models. It's been almost a year since the DAC meeting that sanctioned procurement of Hard Kill APS for the entire MBT fleet, no follow up yet.
1672852784548.png

1672852798773.png
 

abingdonboy

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While the T-90s don't have swivel launchers for their grenades, they have gotten new IR smoke grenades and have been fitted with APS+MAWS since 2016. I am not aware of this upgrade being applied to T-72s, however since HVF's T-90s are replacing T-72s in multiple regiments, I'm not surprised
any idea where the 1000+ TI equipped panoramic sights bought from Alpha for the T72s are? Almost every image of a T72 in the field shows them of the same spec they were 15 years ago

it doesn’t seem like many of the updates bought for the T72/90 since 2015 have got to the users even in 2022
 

ManhattanProject

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any idea where the 1000+ TI equipped panoramic sights bought from Alpha for the T72s are? Almost every image of a T72 in the field shows them of the same spec they were 15 years ago

it doesn’t seem like many of the updates bought for the T72/90 since 2015 have got to the users even in 2022
I am getting bored of tanks, lets talk about special forces..😩
 

abingdonboy

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I am getting bored of tanks, lets talk about special forces..😩
I’m far more interested in Indian tanks these days than Indian SF considering this seems to be the same priority set as the Indian military leadership

SF in the Indian context have now been positioned as an incredibly niche capability that won’t play any sort of outsized role in a conflict. MARCOs will embark on INS and carry out hostile VBSS to enforce blockades

Garuds will act as QRT for strategic airbases in case of enemy SF/paratroop attempts to seize/destroy (minor CSAR role also)

Paras will be airborne infantry/recce

pretty dull really.

it’s more interesting to consider if the IBGs will hold up to enemy defences and maintain their survivability against the kind of modern threats seen in Ukraine (ATGMs, UAVs etc)
 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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I’m far more interested in Indian tanks these days than Indian SF considering this seems to be the same priority set as the Indian military leadership

SF in the Indian context have now been positioned as an incredibly niche capability that won’t play any sort of outsized role in a conflict. MARCOs will embark on INS and carry out hostile VBSS to enforce blockades

Garuds will act as QRT for strategic airbases in case of enemy SF/paratroop attempts to seize/destroy (minor CSAR role also)

Paras will be airborne infantry/recce

pretty dull really.

it’s more interesting to consider if the IBGs will hold up to enemy defences and maintain their survivability against the kind of modern threats seen in Ukraine (ATGMs, UAVs etc)
Modern SF is using Jet packs, liquid suits for body armour, digital camo.

As most of us think its budget problem its not.. Its intelligence aka brain problem.

Quality of men is not there.. self bragging unfortunately doesnt show up in the modernisation.

Early man hotey toh think tha.. todays warfare has evolved.

rigid fauji thoughts and being brittle to changes like how our afsars are dont lead to anything good.
 

abingdonboy

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Modern SF is using Jet packs, liquid suits for body armour, digital camo.

As most of us think its budget problem its not.. Its intelligence aka brain problem.

Quality of men is not there.. self bragging unfortunately doesnt show up in the modernisation.

Early man hotey toh think tha.. todays warfare has evolved.

rigid fauji thoughts and being brittle to changes like how our afsars are dont lead to anything good.
As time goes on this is abundantly apparent. The Indian military (mostly the army really) at its core never moved on fundamentally from the imperial British army’s mindset. They are groomed to think conventionally and traditionally, things like SF don’t even enter into their awareness unless they are watching Bollywood depictions of commandos

the irony is the British army has transformed itself multiple times since independence and the Indian army holds onto traditions that even the British ditched as being outdated decades ago.

the latter is just as much a fault of the civilian leadership or lack thereof. Such was the paranoia in the Nehru govt and beyond that the military and civilians were kept as far apart as possible so you’d be hard pressed to find a single MP that actually knows what a special operation is vs a ninja. Systemic military failures in most Western nations are addressed by immense scrutiny from the legislature who conduct an oversight role, in india the services are a law onto themselves, literally walking themselves off from the rest of society and failing to keep up with the times.

I recently re-watched a part of a doc on para SF and I was reminded that the SF officers have junior ranks serve them effectively as housekeepers- giving them wake up calls, serving them chai and the like. No fighting force in 2022 is war ready with such nonsense going on and that too in their supposed most warrior minded units.

then you see the senior brass (and COAS no less) strutting around in foreword areas with chests full of ribbons and shiny medals (in complete violation of the updated uniform code they themselves enacted a few months ago) with their bright gorget patches and beret badges, this is not a serious military. They are just waiting to get to their retirements and personalised 3/4* memorabilia (golf carts, number plates and I saw the last COAS wearing a set of 4* cuff links in his ANI podcast appearance)

meanwhile you have Ukrainian officers (some of the least trained and least professional in the ‘western’ world) telling their newest recruits never to salute them or call them ‘sir’
 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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As time goes on this is abundantly apparent. The Indian military (mostly the army really) at its core never moved on fundamentally from the imperial British army’s mindset. They are groomed to think conventionally and traditionally, things like SF don’t even enter into their awareness unless they are watching Bollywood depictions of commandos

the irony is the British army has transformed itself multiple times since independence and the Indian army holds onto traditions that even the British ditched as being outdated decades ago.

the latter is just as much a fault of the civilian leadership or lack thereof. Such was the paranoia in the Nehru govt and beyond that the military and civilians were kept as far apart as possible so you’d be hard pressed to find a single MP that actually knows what a special operation is vs a ninja. Systemic military failures in most Western nations are addressed by immense scrutiny from the legislature who conduct an oversight role, in india the services are a law onto themselves, literally walking themselves off from the rest of society and failing to keep up with the times.

I recently re-watched a part of a doc on para SF and I was reminded that the SF officers have junior ranks serve them effectively as housekeepers- giving them wake up calls, serving them chai and the like. No fighting force in 2022 is war ready with such nonsense going on and that too in their supposed most warrior minded units.

then you see the senior brass (and COAS no less) strutting around in foreword areas with chests full of ribbons and shiny medals (in complete violation of the updated uniform code they themselves enacted a few months ago) with their bright gorget patches and beret badges, this is not a serious military. They are just waiting to get to their retirements and personalised 3/4* memorabilia (golf carts, number plates and I saw the last COAS wearing a set of 4* cuff links in his ANI podcast appearance)

meanwhile you have Ukrainian officers (some of the least trained and least professional in the ‘western’ world) telling their newest recruits never to salute them or call them ‘sir’
The babugiri is very much a part of Indian Army.

You have to keep lot of people happy to be in the senior levels.

So that is the kind of people that are getting selected.

I have no fear in saying that a Indian Army Major who is my age doesnt have half the exposure or awareness as me and i dare say that coz my Best friend is.

Maybe a little bit if corporate culture will help here.

Misusing Bateman and gypsy is a topic better left alone.
 

ALBY

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Modern SF is using Jet packs, liquid suits for body armour, digital camo.

As most of us think its budget problem its not.. Its intelligence aka brain problem.

Quality of men is not there.. self bragging unfortunately doesnt show up in the modernisation.

Early man hotey toh think tha.. todays warfare has evolved.

rigid fauji thoughts and being brittle to changes like how our afsars are dont lead to anything good.
Apart from testing which units in reality uses jetpacls and liquid jackets and stuff in real oos?
 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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Apart from testing which units in reality uses jetpacls and liquid jackets and stuff in real oos?
If its in good way you ask i would say testing is leading to many black projects which will develop Iron man type suits for future use in their military. So its progressive.

If its sarcasm then what are we testing? Armasen helmet covers?
 

ALBY

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If its in good way you ask i would say testing is leading to many black projects which will develop Iron man type suits for future use in their military. So its progressive.

If its sarcasm then what are we testing? Armasen helmet covers?
I was serious . Had seen this youtube videos about some next gen stuffs but never came across anything like that in anyof the insta pages dedicated for SFs.May atleast some are into blackops already.
 

Marcus Aurelius

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Modern SF is using Jet packs, liquid suits for body armour, digital camo.

As most of us think its budget problem its not.. Its intelligence aka brain problem.

Quality of men is not there.. self bragging unfortunately doesnt show up in the modernisation.

Early man hotey toh think tha.. todays warfare has evolved.

rigid fauji thoughts and being brittle to changes like how our afsars are dont lead to anything good.
It all depends on the quality of men (especially those joining the officer cadre) the armed forces attract. Furthermore, the exposure of the men to latest technology and thinking. At West Points cadets specialising in economics are taken to the US Federal Reserve in order to make them understand the importance of a central bank to the national security of a country. Unfortunately in India, we work in silos. There is hardly any inter-service collaboration. Moreover our civilian establishment disdain the presence of faujis and the armed forces do not entertain civilian experts (except Shujfuji perhaps). The thinking of future officers should be shaped in their academies by elite scholars, perhaps this is why someone like Samuel Huntington taught at the US Naval Academy.
 

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