Indian Special Forces

[BlackViking]

Days ago I saw a Tender for AK mod-kit (I think it's same which SSS won recently, for 600+ units). They were asking for an Foldable Pistol Foregrip and an pointing grip. I was just wondering why do they need a pointing grip when the don't even have basic foregrips for the SIGs?

Also doesn't a folding grip works just fine as a pointing grip?

And then there was another requirement for a picatinny rail compatible Pistol Grip. I don't know what to make out of it.

 

[Blademaster]

So this is your fantasy i assume? We are not there yet mate, we cant just dope up female soldiers with steroids just for politics and virtue signalling, nor do we have captain america injections. Lets talk about reality here.
Maybe in 500 years we will have mech suits, but not today.

View attachment 186068

Science fiction is the basis for tomorrow's technology because it communicates concepts and ideas of what the technology can be tomorrow. Don't mock science fiction or out of the box thinking. That out of the box thinking is what allowed and made the British the dominant power and gave them the ability to take over the Indian subcontinent with a force of 50k soldiers and rule the subcontinent with less than 20k men for 200 years.

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

Days ago I saw a Tender for AK mod-kit (I think it's same which SSS won recently, for 600+ units). They were asking for an Foldable Pistol Foregrip and an pointing grip. I was just wondering why do they need a pointing grip when the don't even have basic foregrips for the SIGs?

Also doesn't a folding grip works just fine as a pointing grip?

And then there was another requirement for a picatinny rail compatible Pistol Grip. I don't know what to make out of it.

My guess is that these kits are for special forces. 3 Para SF purchased a few dozens, than eastern command gave orders for a few hundred and now northern command

 

[ManhattanProject]

Science fiction is the basis for tomorrow's technology because it communicates concepts and ideas of what the technology can be tomorrow. Don't mock science fiction or out of the box thinking. That out of the box thinking is what allowed and made the British the dominant power and gave them the ability to take over the Indian subcontinent with a force of 50k soldiers and rule the subcontinent with less than 20k men for 200 years.

wtf

 

[Blademaster]

So this is your fantasy i assume? We are not there yet mate, we cant just dope up female soldiers with steroids just for politics and virtue signalling, nor do we have captain america injections. Lets talk about reality here.
Maybe in 500 years we will have mech suits, but not today.

View attachment 186068

something more closer to home and more realistic would be drone operator.

 

[abingdonboy]

IAF decides to allow women officers to join its Garud commando force

The IAF raised the Garud commando force in 2004, three years after four heavily armed terroristsattempted to force their way into the air force’s Awantipora fighter base near Srinagar

www.hindustantimes.com

Para-SF is next.

Saying they won’t dilute standards is an utter lie. Give it 2-5 years and 0 women are selected on merit and they’ll be forced to lower the standards in order to appease their political masters

no female has even been able to pass into an infantry unit as of today but these jokers open the doors to woman straight away, as usual no sense, no planning just optics.

On one hand they say SF are elite, on the other they pull this rubbish. No wonder india gets humiliated by pakis constantly

 

[abingdonboy]

whatever. It doesn’t matter as long as they figure out to make it meaningless. You can still require a special force team because it still means specialized skill set. Just not physical prowess superiority. Look at navy seals and green berets. You don’t see them as big hulking ripped with 6-8 abs. Sure they have strength but they have superior stamina superior marksmanship and specialized skill set of getting in and out unnoticed while achieving their objectives. Technology will progress to the point where strength takes on a secondary role while more specialized skill sets such as stamina, targeting aptitude or recon ability etc takes on more importance etc.

There are drug enhancing and booster shots that allow soldiers to become super soldiers for a period of time albeit not a perfect one. My point is that once they figure out how to make average soldiers like special forces on the cheap it will be superior to other armies that cannot figure that part out

Utter horse $hit. So SF/SOF are not an athletic job?

as Rob O’Neil (former DEVGRU) said about the time he and some conventional forces had to go over a mountain to reach the red wings CH-47 crash site- this is way selection is so physical. If you give up on the side of a mountain you’re dead.

I’ve heard it all now, just to justify weaker, inferior soldiers to gain woke points from sections of society who couldn’t even name an SF unit in india.

and remember this is INDIA not a super mechanised western military with super optimised lightweight gear and almost infinite support.

look at this picture and tell me SF job isn’t physical. There’s NO woman on earth that wouldn’t be a liability in these situations and remember everyone of the SF guys in this pic died fighting male terrorists hand to hand. The enemy aren’t going to start sending women across so why weaken your ability to fight?

 

[ALBY]

Saying they won’t dilute standards is an utter lie. Give it 2-5 years and 0 women are selected on merit and they’ll be forced to lower the standards in order to appease their political masters

no female has even been able to pass into an infantry unit as of today but these jokers open the doors to woman straight away, as usual no sense, no planning just optics.

On one hand they say SF are elite, on the other they pull this rubbish. No wonder india gets humiliated by pakis constantly

Forget infantry,even in police and CAPFs the standards of men and women arr different.And there is this commando wings in police units which have women who don’t have same endurance or strength levels of their male counterparts in regular units just too showcase gender equality.
Even the cadets in military academies couldn’t attain the standards what their male counterparts are attaining.So whats the point?

 

[abingdonboy]

Forget infantry,even in police and CAPFs the standards of men and women arr different.And there is this commando wings in police units which have women who don’t have same endurance or strength levels of their male counterparts in regular units just too showcase gender equality.
Even the cadets in military academies couldn’t attain the standards what their male counterparts are attaining.So whats the point?

Tokenism

just pathetic that these guys care so little about their services that they’ll play these games just to appease nut jobs.

 

[Blademaster]

Utter horse $hit. So SF/SOF are not an athletic job?

as Rob O’Neil (former DEVGRU) said about the time he and some conventional forces had to go over a mountain to reach the red wings CH-47 crash site- this is way selection is so physical. If you give up on the side of a mountain you’re dead.

I’ve heard it all now, just to justify weaker, inferior soldiers to gain woke points from sections of society who couldn’t even name an SF unit in india.

and remember this is INDIA not a super mechanised western military with super optimised lightweight gear and almost infinite support.

look at this picture and tell me SF job isn’t physical. There’s NO woman on earth that wouldn’t be a liability in these situations and remember everyone of the SF guys in this pic died fighting male terrorists hand to hand. The enemy aren’t going to start sending women across so why weaken your ability to fight?

View attachment 186107

Ok say or decry whatever you want regarding the wokeness etc. but the growing trend in those woke armies and navies is that they will figure out how to make the physical strength difference between males and women very largely irrelevant as a response to the growing woke demand in their societies. You may decry the invalidity of the wokeness and all. However you cannot ignore that their military, acting under orders whether you like it or not, are seeking to find ways to remain militarily combat effective while adhering to the wokeness commands from their civilian superiors. During that process they may seek technological advances that just allow that. We cannot be behind the curve just because of our beliefs and indoctrination. I have cited some historical events where technological advances trumped physical strength.

1. Crossbows overcoming the superiority of longbows and not necessitating that kind of strength to have long range combat capability.
2. Gunpowder v melee weapons where undernourished plebes or masses could be on the same level as highly trained swordsmen who took years of specialized training and required certain food intake and upkeep to maintain their combat edge, etc.
3. Use of mechanical technology versus horses to move supplies and men.
4. In today's world, we are seeing massed use of drones and how effective they can be against opposing forces.
5. Increasing use of lightweight materials in weaponry to make it more wieldable and usable.

Now we see technological companies working in the field of exoskeleton: Take a look at here:

Mate Exoskeleton – Press Brake Safety

pressbrakesafety.com

Sarcos Technology & Robotics Corporation

Sarcos Robotics enables the workforce of the future with dexterous robotic systems that help prevent injury and increase productivity.

www.sarcos.com

Check out the google results: https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=exoskeleton+suit

When those come to fruition, you can bet your bottom ass that the western military would seek ways to overcome that physical barrier between men and women and seek to equalize them and therefore proving my main point - a society that has figured out to make a combat effective army based on 100% of their population will be superior to a society that can only make an army based on 50% of its population.

 

[Blademaster]

Another historical event to consider in light of my point where technological or military advance trumps physical strength.

Viking/Celtic warriors of the old were large and more physically superior to their enemy combatants because of various reasons such as climate, geography, food intake, selection etc. The point is that in almost every encounter, they were the biggest and baddest. That was their strength and they use it to successfully overcome a lot of their foes until they came across Roman legions. Roman legionnaires were not large soldiers or physical brutes. In fact, the average size of the Roman legionnaire was about 5-3 or 5-4 while their celtic foes were about 5-8-5-10 or even 6 feet tall. In short, the average Celtic tribesman was bigger and more physically stronger than the average Roman legionnaire. Yet the Romans had figured out how to negate that physical advantage through military advances in formation, discipline, training, tactics, and logistics. Moreover, those advances allowed the Romans to choose their soldiers from a greater base of population where physical criteria was not so narrow to be discriminating whereas the Celtics/Vikings/Germanics had to choose their warriors from a narrow segment of the population that fit their physical criteria.

Also look at the Mongols. Mongols were certainly not large men because they exclusively ride horses and ponies. Horses and ponies can carry average men but not large men because they would get tire out more easily and the strength of the Mongol armies lie in their horses and composite bows, not Mongol's physical strengths. Their enemies were bigger and stronger than the Mongols on average but that physical advantage was overcome with the use of horse cavalry and composite bows. A clear example of physical strength being overcome with technological or military advances and that resulted in that society being superior to other societies that could not figure that part out.

 

[Meal Team 6]

Saying they won’t dilute standards is an utter lie. Give it 2-5 years and 0 women are selected on merit and they’ll be forced to lower the standards in order to appease their political masters

no female has even been able to pass into an infantry unit as of today but these jokers open the doors to woman straight away, as usual no sense, no planning just optics.

On one hand they say SF are elite, on the other they pull this rubbish. No wonder india gets humiliated by pakis constantly

Well I agree with the rest of it but last line was uncalled for and unnecessary and to my knowledge straight up bs , care to elaborate or please take your statement back.

 

[abingdonboy]

Ok say or decry whatever you want regarding the wokeness etc. but the growing trend in those woke armies and navies is that they will figure out how to make the physical strength difference between males and women very largely irrelevant as a response to the growing woke demand in their societies. You may decry the invalidity of the wokeness and all. However you cannot ignore that their military, acting under orders whether you like it or not, are seeking to find ways to remain militarily combat effective while adhering to the wokeness commands from their civilian superiors. During that process they may seek technological advances that just allow that. We cannot be behind the curve just because of our beliefs and indoctrination. I have cited some historical events where technological advances trumped physical strength.

1. Crossbows overcoming the superiority of longbows and not necessitating that kind of strength to have long range combat capability.
2. Gunpowder v melee weapons where undernourished plebes or masses could be on the same level as highly trained swordsmen who took years of specialized training and required certain food intake and upkeep to maintain their combat edge, etc.
3. Use of mechanical technology versus horses to move supplies and men.
4. In today's world, we are seeing massed use of drones and how effective they can be against opposing forces.
5. Increasing use of lightweight materials in weaponry to make it more wieldable and usable.

Now we see technological companies working in the field of exoskeleton: Take a look at here:

Mate Exoskeleton – Press Brake Safety

pressbrakesafety.com

Sarcos Technology & Robotics Corporation

Sarcos Robotics enables the workforce of the future with dexterous robotic systems that help prevent injury and increase productivity.

www.sarcos.com

Check out the google results: https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=exoskeleton+suit

When those come to fruition, you can bet your bottom ass that the western military would seek ways to overcome that physical barrier between men and women and seek to equalize them and therefore proving my main point - a society that has figured out to make a combat effective army based on 100% of their population will be superior to a society that can only make an army based on 50% of its population.

It is 2022. None of that stuff is in service. None. This move happened in 2021/2. All of the above is maybe 20+ years from Indian service aka these clowns won’t have any such equipment for their entire careers

I’ve seen some try and justify this saying equal opportunity blah blah blah but you’ve gone full crazy by trying to dismiss concerns by pushing entirely non-existent tech

and even if there was ZERO physical disparity is this still a good idea? Almost every study with mixed units points to them performing far worse than all male. This is before you bring in all the social issues and logistical constraints (need for separate facilities etc) and for what? To score some points with SJWs?

even the West isn’t convinced by this but india is going fully forward because as usual generals care more about scoring points and protecting their cushy deal than the soldiers on the ground or protecting their country.

 

[abingdonboy]

Another historical event to consider in light of my point where technological or military advance trumps physical strength.

Viking/Celtic warriors of the old were large and more physically superior to their enemy combatants because of various reasons such as climate, geography, food intake, selection etc. The point is that in almost every encounter, they were the biggest and baddest. That was their strength and they use it to successfully overcome a lot of their foes until they came across Roman legions. Roman legionnaires were not large soldiers or physical brutes. In fact, the average size of the Roman legionnaire was about 5-3 or 5-4 while their celtic foes were about 5-8-5-10 or even 6 feet tall. In short, the average Celtic tribesman was bigger and more physically stronger than the average Roman legionnaire. Yet the Romans had figured out how to negate that physical advantage through military advances in formation, discipline, training, tactics, and logistics. Moreover, those advances allowed the Romans to choose their soldiers from a greater base of population where physical criteria was not so narrow to be discriminating whereas the Celtics/Vikings/Germanics had to choose their warriors from a narrow segment of the population that fit their physical criteria.

Also look at the Mongols. Mongols were certainly not large men because they exclusively ride horses and ponies. Horses and ponies can carry average men but not large men because they would get tire out more easily and the strength of the Mongol armies lie in their horses and composite bows, not Mongol's physical strengths. Their enemies were bigger and stronger than the Mongols on average but that physical advantage was overcome with the use of horse cavalry and composite bows. A clear example of physical strength being overcome with technological or military advances and that resulted in that society being superior to other societies that could not figure that part out.

The physical differences between different groups of men is absolutely not comparable between the physical disparities between a man and a woman so this entire argument is moot.

no combat force in history has defeated male militaries by using significant numbers of female combatants. There’s not even a singular example.

so just get Indian women (who are already on the smaller/weaker end of the spectrum of all women in the world) who are more prone to injury, will demand maternity leave etc serve in one of the most operationally deployed and physically demanding militaries int he world against all male combatants.

Unfuckingreal

 

[Anirbann Datta]

Ok say or decry whatever you want regarding the wokeness etc. but the growing trend in those woke armies and navies is that they will figure out how to make the physical strength difference between males and women very largely irrelevant as a response to the growing woke demand in their societies. You may decry the invalidity of the wokeness and all. However you cannot ignore that their military, acting under orders whether you like it or not, are seeking to find ways to remain militarily combat effective while adhering to the wokeness commands from their civilian superiors. During that process they may seek technological advances that just allow that. We cannot be behind the curve just because of our beliefs and indoctrination. I have cited some historical events where technological advances trumped physical strength.

1. Crossbows overcoming the superiority of longbows and not necessitating that kind of strength to have long range combat capability.
2. Gunpowder v melee weapons where undernourished plebes or masses could be on the same level as highly trained swordsmen who took years of specialized training and required certain food intake and upkeep to maintain their combat edge, etc.
3. Use of mechanical technology versus horses to move supplies and men.
4. In today's world, we are seeing massed use of drones and how effective they can be against opposing forces.
5. Increasing use of lightweight materials in weaponry to make it more wieldable and usable.

Now we see technological companies working in the field of exoskeleton: Take a look at here:

Mate Exoskeleton – Press Brake Safety

pressbrakesafety.com

Sarcos Technology & Robotics Corporation

Sarcos Robotics enables the workforce of the future with dexterous robotic systems that help prevent injury and increase productivity.

www.sarcos.com

Check out the google results: https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=exoskeleton+suit

When those come to fruition, you can bet your bottom ass that the western military would seek ways to overcome that physical barrier between men and women and seek to equalize them and therefore proving my main point - a society that has figured out to make a combat effective army based on 100% of their population will be superior to a society that can only make an army based on 50% of its population.

Sirjee, pahele ek simple lightweight Plate carrier or dhang ke gun to dila doo kamse kam , ab tak to sahi-sat ek combat uniform tak nahi aa paya , fir exoskeleton- falana-dinkana ke baree me socha jayegaaa.
Combat readiness does not implies loading soldiers all kind of stuffs only.. a delay in fraction of a second reflex time (already posted here by respected member) can decide whether one dies or scores...

 

[Blademaster]

The physical differences between different groups of men is absolutely not comparable between the physical disparities between a man and a woman so this entire argument is moot.

no combat force in history has defeated male militaries by using significant numbers of female combatants. There’s not even a singular example.

so just get Indian women (who are already on the smaller/weaker end of the spectrum of all women in the world) who are more prone to injury, will demand maternity leave etc serve in one of the most operationally deployed and physically demanding militaries int he world against all male combatants.

Unfuckingreal

Rome wasn’t certainly built in a day but they ruled over a continent for 1000 years and their effects are still being felt to this day whereas their enemies have fallen to dust and to the wayside. My point being is don’t underestimate the forces acting to make the female portion an integral part of the military for we will feel the effects years and decades from now. Do we want to be behind the curve or get ahead of the ball and do some experimentation and see where this goes?

 

[ManhattanProject]

Another historical event to consider in light of my point where technological or military advance trumps physical strength.

Viking/Celtic warriors of the old were large and more physically superior to their enemy combatants because of various reasons such as climate, geography, food intake, selection etc. The point is that in almost every encounter, they were the biggest and baddest. That was their strength and they use it to successfully overcome a lot of their foes until they came across Roman legions. Roman legionnaires were not large soldiers or physical brutes. In fact, the average size of the Roman legionnaire was about 5-3 or 5-4 while their celtic foes were about 5-8-5-10 or even 6 feet tall. In short, the average Celtic tribesman was bigger and more physically stronger than the average Roman legionnaire. Yet the Romans had figured out how to negate that physical advantage through military advances in formation, discipline, training, tactics, and logistics. Moreover, those advances allowed the Romans to choose their soldiers from a greater base of population where physical criteria was not so narrow to be discriminating whereas the Celtics/Vikings/Germanics had to choose their warriors from a narrow segment of the population that fit their physical criteria.

Also look at the Mongols. Mongols were certainly not large men because they exclusively ride horses and ponies. Horses and ponies can carry average men but not large men because they would get tire out more easily and the strength of the Mongol armies lie in their horses and composite bows, not Mongol's physical strengths. Their enemies were bigger and stronger than the Mongols on average but that physical advantage was overcome with the use of horse cavalry and composite bows. A clear example of physical strength being overcome with technological or military advances and that resulted in that society being superior to other societies that could not figure that part out.

those celtics were still fighting male romans, are you saying those celtics would have lost to female romans too?

 

[Blademaster]

those celtics were still fighting male romans, are you saying those celtics would have lost to female romans too?

Yes they were fighting Roman males but they were much physically stronger than the Roman males and that physical strength disparity disappeared in the face of Roman innovation and better tactics.

Is that too much of a stretch of imagination to make that leap with regards to the physical strength disparity between the males and females and the technological advances of today and tomorrow that could be utilized to overcome that disparity?

 

[abingdonboy]

Rome wasn’t certainly built in a day but they ruled over a continent for 1000 years and their effects are still being felt to this day whereas their enemies have fallen to dust and to the wayside. My point being is don’t underestimate the forces acting to make the female portion an integral part of the military for we will feel the effects years and decades from now. Do we want to be behind the curve or get ahead of the ball and do some experimentation and see where this goes?

This isn’t being done to make the forces more capable. It’s to meet political agendas, the outcome will always be a degradation in capabilities. Everything else is pure eyewash and not worth debating further.

there doesn’t seem anyone at the top interested in ensuring india is ready to win fights in the future, every day is another new setback based on the myopia of the ‘leadership’. One day all of these self inflicted wounds will come back to haunt.

 

[ManhattanProject]

Yes they were fighting Roman males but they were much physically stronger than the Roman males and that physical strength disparity disappeared in the face of Roman innovation and better tactics.

Is that too much of a stretch of imagination to make that leap with regards to the physical strength disparity between the males and females and the technological advances of today and tomorrow that could be utilized to overcome that disparity?

I am beginning to think you dont understand how gender works. Do you have any idea how much weaker woman are compared to men? I am talking about the science here, not being sexist. Do you have difficulty understanding the difference of strength between two different men? Do you not understand the difference of strength between 2 men and a man vs woman is enormous?
i am out of my wits here..