Indian Special Forces

[Jedi Operator]

Ya I admit it, maine khud ka chutiya kat liya. My Apiologies to everyone.

Mods, you may actually delete those posts, damn this is actually embarrassing

 

[Aditya Ballal]

 

[jai jaganath]

Ya I admit it, maine khud ka chutiya kat liya. My Apiologies to everyone.

Mods, you may actually delete those posts, damn this is actually embarrassing

In our case we don't need 10 billion dollars
We just need 2-3 billion dollars for entire sof of india that to not one shot but in 3-4 years
Bcoz we have many indigenous alternatives

 

[Jedi Operator]

In our case we don't need 10 billion dollars
We just need 2-3 billion dollars for entire sof of india that to not one shot but in 3-4 years
Bcoz we have many indigenous alternatives

Indigenous alternatives matlab, un pe bhi toh pessa kharch hoga?
NSG has an annual budget of ₹1,293 crore, bigger than AFSOD.

 

[jai jaganath]

Indigenous alternatives matlab, un pe bhi toh pessa kharch hoga?
NSG has an annual budget of ₹1,293 crore, bigger than AFSOD.

Indigenous alternatives means the equipment required for modernization of sof
I am speaking about modernization budget not maintainance, salary, other expenditure
And first of all afsod doesn't exists
The situation of indian sof is so bad that mod intervention can bring changes and for modernization they max need 3 billion dollars excluding other expenditures

 

[Jedi Operator]

Indigenous alternatives means the equipment required for modernization of sof
I am speaking about modernization budget not maintainance, salary, other expenditure
And first of all afsod doesn't exists
The situation of indian sof is so bad that mod intervention can bring changes and for modernization they max need 3 billion dollars excluding other expenditures

modernization doesn't just mean brining good equipment, which itself would be complementary if they do it. Maintenance is a part of modernization.

 

[jai jaganath]

modernization doesn't just mean brining good equipment, which itself would be complementary if they do it. Maintenance is a part of modernization.

Yeah maintenance
And more importantly training wrt new equipments is very very important
But I am speaking generally about mordern equipments bcoz that's primary
Tactics and training will be done around it

 

[Aditya Ballal]

By the way, do you know? Delta Force has come to India to train tactics, wonder why they went to Belgaum Commando School, instead of SFTS
View attachment 174949

Source?

 

[abingdonboy]

AFSOD couldn't be like SOCOM, at most what they'll do is have people on deputation and spend money on them then send them back.....NSG aur SG mei bhi yehi hota hei. And since it's Tri Service, they will say....This is similar to JSOC. . One book he recommended was "Spec Ops Case Studies by William Mcraven.
Indian military i known is very hosh-posh when it comes to executing things. At least this I am certain that AFSOD's main mission is going to be counterterrorism and counterproliferation. The latter one especially because now we have that new bill on WMD research.

Again I think you are misunderstanding what AFSOD is and even what JSOC is.

firstly AFSOD was a proof of concept experiment for a tri-service SOCOM-nothing more, nothing less. Even that seems very unlikely now because I feel the IA’s recent moves with Para SF have effectively made any SOCOM type structure redundant.

And JSOC is not a single entity, it’s not a tri-services super elite unit. It’s a COMMAND with specific units under it (the most elite that have a national mission focus). Hence you don’t see DEVGRU and Delta running mixed teams with one another. They still all train, select and operate separately but their C&C is such that it’s directed at a higher level and they have more direct support and resources.

SOCOM reports to Pentagon, JSOC to the executive (joint chiefs/White house)

so this deputation idea to AFSOD would have made zero sense- it’s not somewhere you go and report to. The units all stay the same it’s just who they are directed by that changes.

Anyway JSOC was created for a specific purpose, again there’s no point blindly trying to emulate when india is different in so many ways. Just having a SOCOM would’ve been a start to try and detach Indian SOFs from conventional taskings. Now the vast majority of Indian SOF are effectively paratroopers so the entire thing is dead before it could even begin

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

 

[Jedi Operator]

Again I think you are misunderstanding what AFSOD is and even what JSOC is.

firstly AFSOD was a proof of concept experiment for a tri-service SOCOM-nothing more, nothing less. Even that seems very unlikely now because I feel the IA’s recent moves with Para SF have effectively made any SOCOM type structure redundant.

And JSOC is not a single entity, it’s not a tri-services super elite unit. It’s a COMMAND with specific units under it (the most elite that have a national mission focus). Hence you don’t see DEVGRU and Delta running mixed teams with one another. They still all train, select and operate separately but their C&C is such that it’s directed at a higher level and they have more direct support and resources.

SOCOM reports to Pentagon, JSOC to the executive (joint chiefs/White house)

so this deputation idea to AFSOD would have made zero sense- it’s not somewhere you go and report to. The units all stay the same it’s just who they are directed by that changes.

Anyway JSOC was created for a specific purpose, again there’s no point blindly trying to emulate when india is different in so many ways. Just having a SOCOM would’ve been a start to try and detach Indian SOFs from conventional taskings. Now the vast majority of Indian SOF are effectively paratroopers so the entire thing is dead before it could even begin

That's what I felt earlier too, but as I said earlier no comments on it until any public info is released. I have only said what I'm told. AFSOD's purpose hasn't been out still. As for JSOC I am aware of what they are.

 

[Jedi Operator]

Now you see, we should first have the risk taking capability to authorize such an operation. Then we need to give the various agencies and organizations involved in it the freedom to demonstrate their idea properly and that often starts prior to the op. That's because the forces need to work together first to build a cohesive team. Then when the opportunity arrives they should train for the mission as much as we can. Delta trained with TF-160 since it was formed after failure of Op Eagle Claw in 1980. Just a year later we see this:- TF-160 using creative methods to bring helos close to the target. That's why Delta was comfortable working with them because the trust had been built up, despite Delta having it's own aviation squadron

Compare that with the failed NSG, MARCOS integration in 26/11. Why? Because both never worked together before. No point unless you start with a mandate and keep the inter service training altogether. Special Forces cant be created during emergencies. If we already have such ops in mind only then we can authorize an execution in the future

Read this yaar

 

[rkhanna]

comparing in terms of budget only.
They have a global footprint and 12 billion dollars, we have within our neighborhood and some countries here and their, defiantly Indian ocean region even then it makes up their US Central and US Indo Pacific Command. so I think 10 Billion $ (860 crore) is fair enough.

860cr is $100million

 

[Jedi Operator]

860cr is $100million

My friend.......क्षमा करें, I'm aware of that. Vo zaldbazi mei kia tha, mei bhi surprise hogya. In fact khush itna hogya ki recheck bhi nehi kia

 

[JConline]

860 cr which translates to approx 35k USD for each of the 3k operators is really not enough considering that this budget is not for each operator but primarily to set up the whole of AFSOD which based on recent news includes air components and other stuff. So at the end of everything, the amt left for the gear and upgradation of personal equipment of the operator is very little if not, none. So what AFSOD operators will look like is just a hodge podge of gear and camos because they'll be carrying whatever equipment they got from their parent units.

 

[Jedi Operator]

Remember, in 2013, the MARCOS introduced a duck-drop system that could be fitted on Ilyushin Il-76 aircraft. Each system of two sets was said to accommodate 32 commandos (almost the size at which they deploy in Kashmir), their weapons and fuel for the boats. Here are some specifications.

 

[abingdonboy]

That's what I felt earlier too, but as I said earlier no comments on it until any public info is released. I have only said what I'm told. AFSOD's purpose hasn't been out still. As for JSOC I am aware of what they are.

I’ve said what I’ve said on this. I won’t believe the ‘secret’ mandate stuff because it’s nonsensical and we’ve heard it all before.

We can infer just from what we’ve seen, if a JSOC type structure was to emerge first the services would have to carve out their own tier 1 SMUs. The IA has in fact done the exact opposite (diluted their SF and expanded ranks of their vanilla SF)

JSOC is a very very specific product that no other nation has (a command within a command). India should be happy with a SOCOM for now but even that seems like a fantasy at this point.

 

[abingdonboy]

860 cr which translates to approx 35k USD for each of the 3k operators is really not enough considering that this budget is not for each operator but primarily to set up the whole of AFSOD which based on recent news includes air components and other stuff. So at the end of everything, the amt left for the gear and upgradation of personal equipment of the operator is very little if not, none. So what AFSOD operators will look like is just a hodge podge of gear and camos because they'll be carrying whatever equipment they got from their parent units.

$100m for this kind of project is less than peanuts. I don’t think even a penny of this went to CAPEX (maybe some comns gear at a high level)

 

[Jedi Operator]

I’ve said what I’ve said on this. I won’t believe the ‘secret’ mandate stuff because it’s nonsensical and we’ve heard it all before.

We can infer just from what we’ve seen, if a JSOC type structure was to emerge first the services would have to carve out their own tier 1 SMUs. The IA has in fact done the exact opposite (diluted their SF and expanded ranks of their vanilla SF)

JSOC is a very very specific product that no other nation has (a command within a command). India should be happy with a SOCOM for now but even that seems like a fantasy at this point.

You are right, even I am skeptical about it that's why I said "no comments". But for real they do claim to have a mandate, but say that it's confidential.

Edit - In fact, , I've asked him again he says Army SF, Garud & MARCOS are all for purely military ops and AFSOD he still says is similar to JSOC. Like previously said.
"We lack Balls" so even if they do have a mandate they wont take it out and so when something isn't out yet they might call it out as "secret". But the secret remains an untouched document. So actual name should be "abandoned"

 

[abingdonboy]

You are right, even I am skeptical about it that's why I said "no comments". But for real they do claim to have a mandate, but say that it's confidential.

Edit - In fact, , I've asked him again he says Army SF, Garud & MARCOS are all for purely military ops and AFSOD he still says is similar to JSOC. Like previously said.
"We lack Balls" so even if they do have a mandate they wont take it out and so when something isn't out yet they might call it out as "secret". But the secret remains an untouched document. So actual name should be "abandoned"

Again it doesn’t make sense. How can they only have specific teams be part of AFSOD and to the entire units? This would be an even more hair brained disaster. SOCOM has to be the starting point and that is officially the entire purpose of AFSOD

I’ll repeat myself anyway that AFSOD is DOA, we haven’t even heard of the replacement of its CO since the first one was announced. IAF doesn’t want theatre commands and IA doesn’t want SOCOM. Indian mil is too archaic to change