Indian special forces carry out cross border operation into Myanmar. Several militants killed

Screambowl

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Yes, that was the Bhutanese Army flushing out all the trouble makers. It is about time to eliminate as many as these militants as possible. Once that is done, the government should take some concrete steps to bring about development in the North East, which will generate jobs, and take away the motivation from the youth to join these militant groups.
During that period there was significantly high ISI involvement in that region. The assassination of royal family in Nepal was part of the agenda to spread the insurgency to Nepal-Uttarakhand,-Bhutan-Sikkim. But they failed in Bhutan, Sikkim and Uttarakhand.

One of the modus operandi to trap youth for their agenda is drugs and it is still being used by these milita factions in N-E.
 

pmaitra

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During that period there was significantly high ISI involvement in that region. The assassination of royal family in Nepal was part of the agenda to spread the insurgency to Nepal-Uttarakhand,-Bhutan-Sikkim. But they failed in Bhutan, Sikkim and Uttarakhand.

One of the modus operandi to trap youth for their agenda is drugs and it is still being used by these milita factions in N-E.
I still did not get the mystery how King Birendra Bir Bikram Shah Dev was assassinated. If you see, his entire lineage was eliminated. Soon after, Gyanendra assumed power and made a mess of things. The people of Nepal saw the previous King as next to God, but the new King never enjoyed the respect of the people. Soon after, the Maoists started a Civil War. I am glad Nepal has not entirely become a vassal of PRC. This situation was well handled by India, as India engaged with the Maoists, and brought about a power sharing arrangement in Nepal. There was a chance of Nepal going the way Tibet did.
 

Simple_Guy

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As the late Brigadier Ray had said,

Mercenaries operate outside legitimate, authoritative control.

Mercenaries don't fight to the death.

Mercenaries don't get pensions.

Most important, Indian Army doesn't consider the Gorkhas mercenaries.
 

pmaitra

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As the late Brigadier Ray had said,

Mercenaries operate outside legitimate, authoritative control.

Mercenaries don't fight to the death.

Mercenaries don't get pensions.

Most important, Indian Army doesn't consider the Gorkhas mercenaries.
Everything Ray Sir said is correct, and there is always exception to the rules.
India did use Napalm during Kargil war, in fact we used it generously, several military guys admitted it on record. Geneva convention doesn't provide any broad Human Rights cover to the Militiamen or Mercenaries (few exceptions like Gurkhas serving in armies).
 

Screambowl

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I still did not get the mystery how King Birendra Bir Bikram Shah Dev was assassinated. If you see, his entire lineage was eliminated. Soon after, Gyanendra assumed power and made a mess of things. The people of Nepal saw the previous King as next to God, but the new King never enjoyed the respect of the people. Soon after, the Maoists started a Civil War. I am glad Nepal has not entirely become a vassal of PRC. This situation was well handled by India, as India engaged with the Maoists, and brought about a power sharing arrangement in Nepal. There was a chance of Nepal going the way Tibet did.

Indian intelligence has to share the failure of protecting King Birendra. Every pro Indian member was assassinated. But somehow they managed and countered MSS and ISI in Bhutan JUST in the right time, other wise we would have lost Bhutan partially. Yes, the counter intelligence operation began after 2003 clean up in Bhutan. That was our Major success in breaking the chain of network because after the King Birendra, Nepal lost it's title of Hindu nation and new resolution started to be passed in their Parliament,.Mao started its activities in Nepal and Southern Bhutan ( through nepalese). And That's why clean up operation 2003 in Bhutan became a necessity. The Nepalese were sent back to Nepal from Southern Bhutan.

In this attack , how much is the role of ISI, is debatable but MSS is definitely involved.
 

pmaitra

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Indian intelligence has to share the failure of protecting King Birendra. Every pro Indian member was assassinated. But somehow they managed and countered MSS and ISI in Bhutan JUST in the right time, other wise we would have lost Bhutan partially. Yes, the counter intelligence operation began after 2003 clean up in Bhutan. That was our Major success in breaking the chain of network because after the King Birendra, Nepal lost it's Hindu national title, Mao started its activities in Nepal and Southern Bhutan ( through nepalese). And That's why clean up operation 2003 in Bhutan became a necessity. The Nepalese were sent back to Nepal from Southern Bhutan.
Many of the Nepalese in Bhutan were migrants who went there to earn a livelihood. Not all of them were Maoists, but many of them were Maoists. There were also ULFA cadres and other NE insurgent groups who were hiding in Bhutan. That entire operation made the chicken neck area secure.
 

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So what DingDong said was that Gorkhas are not mercenaries?

Then what was the point of this ridiculous debate bringing in dictionaries and what not?
 

Screambowl

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Many of the Nepalese in Bhutan were migrants who went there to earn a livelihood. Not all of them were Maoists, but many of them were Maoists. There were also ULFA cadres and other NE insurgent groups who were hiding in Bhutan. That entire operation made the chicken neck area secure.
That is correct. But How much ISI is involved in this attack on 6 Dogra and supporting Khaplang is debatable. MSS is definitely involved in the funding and arm supply. But which route and modus operandi they are using , gold, drugs, money via Thailand or Myanmar.. needs to be shared.
 

pmaitra

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So what DingDong said was that Gorkhas are not mercenaries?

Then what was the point of this ridiculous debate bringing in dictionaries and what not?
Not all Gurkha soldiers are Nepalese citizens. Majority of them are Indian citizens. They are not mercenaries. Indian Government allows Nepalese citizens to serve in the Indian Army. A mercenary is a person who is from one country but fights for another country (going by dictionary or UN definition). These people are not afforded privileges under Geneva Convention like regular soldiers get. In case of Gurkha Regiment (India or UK), there is an exception to this rule. That is what @DingDong tired to say. Unfortunately, his comment was twisted into an alleged insult, which resulted in this ridiculous debate.
 

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Adding to earlier points, mercenaries are already trained soldiers before they choose to fight abroad for money.
 

pmaitra

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Adding to earlier points, mercenaries are already trained soldiers before they choose to fight abroad for money.
That is true.

The French Foreign Legion was made up of thugs and criminals. They were trained after they chose to fight.

Also, a mercenary is primarily (but not necessarily) motivated by money. If we consider the poverty rate in Nepal, I think money certainly is a motivating factor. There has been a lot of protests in UK regarding payments to their Gurkha soldiers. So, monetary motivation does play its part. This should not be misconstrued as an insult.
 

Screambowl

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So what DingDong said was that Gorkhas are not mercenaries?

Then what was the point of this ridiculous debate bringing in dictionaries and what not?

It is not necessary. The state I belong, have many gurkhas who have nothing to do with Nepal. Now one cannot differentiate whether they are gurkhas, or non gurkhas. Gurung, Tamang, Chetris , Thapas are some gurkha casts. But the Gurkha Naga or Garhwali factor is in almost every one in the state I belong. And many get recruited in the Gurkha regiment only because of the region they are.
 

Screambowl

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http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/govt-moves-to-reimpose-ban-on-nscnk/article7310646.ece

Following the ambush and killing of 18 soldiers allegedly orchestrated by the Nationalist Socialist Council of Nagaland (Khaplang) in Manipur last Tuesday, the government on Friday initiated proceedings to once again ban the organisation.

A Home Ministry has prepared a note for inclusion of the organisation on the banned list under the Unlawful Activities Prevention Act. The Union Cabinet has to approve it, officials said.

The earlier ban on the NSCN(K) was revoked in 2001 after it declared a ceasefire with the government. The organisation withdrew from the truce this May, which resulted in renewed attacks.

S.S. Khaplang, along with Isak Chishi Swu and Thuingaleng Muivah, had formed the NSCN after revolting against the Shillong Accord of November 1975. In 1988, Khaplang split away to form the NSCN(K).

Doval to visit Myanmar

National Security Adviser Ajit Doval will visit Myanmar on June 17 to discuss the possibilities of “further joint action” against Northeast insurgents, officials said.

After the war of words between political parties over Army operations on insurgent camps in Myanmar, Union Minister of State Rajyavardhan Singh Rathore met Union Home Minister Rajnath Singh on Friday. Mr. Rathore, on Tuesday, called the operation a “much-needed decision” by the Prime Minister and an “extremely bold decision”, adding that “it involved our special forces crossing the border and going deep into another country”. This created a political storm with Opposition parties criticising the government for “chest-thumping”.

The government, which got into a damage-control mode, has instructed officials not to comment on the issue, informed sources said. Discussion of operational details in public had forced Myanmar to deny the conduct of operations on its soil, and several experts said this did not augur well with the very nature of covert operations.

Speaking after of the operation, former Navy Chief Admiral Arun Prakash said that special operations, by their very nature, were “supposed to be kept under wraps”, but in this case, “excessive publicity and public ‘chest-thumping’ has harmed national security as well as international relations; just as it happened in the case of the Coast Guard high-seas interception.” All this, he added, was reminiscent of the “public posturing that occurred in the aftermath of Pokhran II and speaks of naivety at the political level”.

On the other hand, former Army chief Shankar Roychowdhury expressed concern that the more important question of “why NSCN(K) decided to break this truce after all these years and carry out the ambush” was lost in the whole debate.

But on the operation itself, the general felt that covert operations need not be kept covert “depending on what the effect the government wants of it and what message it wants to send across”.

On Pakistan’s assertions that it was not Myanmar, Gen. Roychowdhury agreed that Pakistan was not Myanmar. However he added, “If we can do it in one instance, we can do it in another. As a contingency, it has to be planned differently.”
 

pmaitra

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Was India really trying to send a message to Pakistan? Then why did the spokesperson categorically state "along the border" and not "across the border?"
 

DingDong

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@Bhadra please read my statement again. Nepalese Gurkhas in Indian/British armies and those serving the French Foreign legions are generally thought to be exempted from the International laws and conventions governing the Mercenaries. But like all international conventions, this is open to interpretation. I had just raised a Technical Point, and I had no intention of insulting/demeaning anybody.

Foreigners serving in Indian/UK/French armies are not naturally entitled to citizenship of those respective countries. In fact Gurkhas serving in the British army were not allowed to get British Passport before 2009. Also, like @pmaitra pointed out, a large number of Gorkhas serving in the IA are Indian Citizens.

BTW, My argument was on the topic of use of Napalm during Kargil War. Technically speaking, India had not declared a "war". Use of incendiaries was the most effective way of smoking out those rats who were occupying the bunkers and that s what we did. Those bunkers were built by the IA and could withstand heavy pounding. Pakistan had already disowned those rats as non-regulars, hence nobody was going to fight for their Human Rights or challenge the way through which we made them meet their creator.

Was India really trying to send a message to Pakistan? Then why did the spokesperson categorically state "along the border" and not "across the border?"
Until all the operational details are available Army usually keeps it concise but vague.

Sending any sort of "message" is the job of the political leadership. In our case our Media sent more number of "Messages" :pound: than the politicians did through their interpretations and misinterpretations.
 

pmaitra

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ANOTHER TIRADE AND ABSOLUTELY SENSELESS STATEMENT ... DISHONOURING GLORIOUS PAST OF INDIAN ARMY


YOUR RIGHTS STOPS WHERE MY NOSE BEGINS
I am not interested in your nose, and your nose has no jurisdiction over my rights.

I have no interest to honour the British Indian Army. I leave that privilege to you. Take it or leave it. Your choice. I am proud of not being a British bootlicker.

Accusing a member of insulting Indian soldiers is a very serious charge. Don't indulge in such activities, and then threaten others of a lawsuit. You yourself might end up in trouble.
 

pmaitra

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@DingDong, if I may add, Geneva Convention, where the rules of warfare, and treatment of PoWs, etc., were discussed, came about in 1949. That could be one reason why institutions established prior to 1949 were exempted from the definition of a mercenary and application of Geneva Convention rules.
 

pmaitra

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So tell me What's you think..!! Indian Army's UN deployment
Are Indian citizens taking orders from the Indian Government?

Answer this question and you will get your answer.

Moreover, UN missions are not war missions. They are peace keeping missions.
 

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