Indian Special Forces (archived)

[Phantom sierra]

I would say they just stopped evolving, or at least the process has become extremely sluggish. I mean, it feels like all they want to do is get the Balidan batch and then walk around with it pinned on their uniform.

i dont think that would be true for units deployed in ops permanently like 4,9 and 21 even 12 para has developed an excellent reputation in short time

 

[ArgonPrime]

i dont think that would be true for units deployed in ops permanently like 4,9 and 21 even 12 para has developed an excellent reputation in short time

They are great at what they do, no doubt but what I meant to say was that it doesn't quite appear that they have managed to keep pace with the evolving tactics of the SOF world over.

PS - Don't get the wrong idea that somehow I'm trying to belittle or insult the rank and file or the junior officers, they are doing a fabulous job given the circumstances. It's just that the higher echelons, it seems, lacks any future vision as to what they wanna do with the SOF.

 

[Desi Aam]

(On a lighter note)
AR rifle - Check
Sidearm - Check
Super duper Body Armour - Check
Star Wars Helmet with Comtacs - Check
SDRadios - Check
Armoured Humvee - Check
Basic training and Brains - Duhh...whaat...??

 

[Edyk12]

 

[rkhanna]

It was an accident. Trust official sources. But SOF started losing their edge when the expansion began. @rkhanna

This op went South due to the inherent risk in the terrain and weather conditions. Impossible to ever prepare for Murphy. Yet they reacted and took down most of the terorist while in an inferior shooting position while being out of their patrol formation and seperated from their pairs and disoriented. Speaks volumes of their training

 

[Edyk12]

It was an accident. Trust official sources. But SOF started losing their edge when the expansion began. @rkhanna

Definitely....

 

[ArgonPrime]

This op went South due to the inherent risk in the terrain and weather conditions. Impossible to ever prepare for Murphy. Yet they reacted and took down most of the terorist while in an inferior shooting position while being out of their patrol formation and seperated from their pairs and disoriented. Speaks volumes of their training

Not to mention the serious injurious they would have certainly received after falling into that ravine. The only thing that still puzzles me is how in the hell did the entire squad fell into that ditch. I mean, one or two guys falling, that I can understand but the entire squad??!!

 

[rkhanna]

Not to mention the grievous injurious they had certainly received after falling into that ravine. The only thing that still puzzles me is how in the hell did the entire squad fell into that ditch. I mean, one or two guys falling, that I can understand but the entire squad??!!

I believe the mountain side they were on gave way and they all fell down the ravine. If the terrain was such they may have bunched up and been closer to each other

 

[ArgonPrime]

I believe the mountain side they were on gave way and they all fell down the ravine

Yeah, it was reported that the ice had formed an overhang over the ravine, and the squad inadvertently stumbled upon it (cause how would they know??) and then a section of the overhang suddenly gave away under their weight and in a sad twist of fate, they fell smack right in the middle of the hiding terrorists. At least that was the official narrative. It's all fine but I just don't see 5 men falling into a ditch all at once had they been maintaining the proper spacing of say 4-5 meters between each man.

 

[Phantom sierra]

Yeah, it was reported that the ice had formed an overhang over the ravine, and the squad inadvertently stumbled upon it (cause how would they know??) and then a section of the overhang suddenly gave away under their weight and in a sad twist of fate, they fell smack right in the middle of the hiding terrorists. At least that was the official narrative. It's all fine but I just don't see 5 men falling into a ditch all at once had they been maintaining the proper spacing of say 4-5 meters.

If I am not wrong 3 fell in incl the team leader (sub. Sanjeev saab) the other 2 went in to save their buddies but unfortunately were KIA

 

[ArgonPrime]

If I am not wrong 3 fell in incl the team leader (sub. Sanjeev saab) the other 2 went in to save their buddies but unfortunately were KIA

I see, that explains it. Thank you for the info. I wonder if some of those lads might have made it had they been issued with proper plate carriers.

 

[Phantom sierra]

I see, that explains it. Thank you for the info. I wonder if some of those lads might have made it had they been issued with proper plate carriers.

Bro, it was point blank range engagement with terrorists. Correct me if I am wrong but no plate carrier could have stopped a 7.62 high velocity round at such a close range + taking into account the injuries due to fall which makes chances of survival close to none.

 

[ArgonPrime]

Bro, it was point blank range engagement with terrorists.

Yeah, I know that.

Correct me if I am wrong but no plate carrier could have stopped a 7.62 high velocity round at such a close range

That's simply not correct.
First of all, the tangos had been using AKMs, so they must have been using M47 (or some locally made copy of it) ammo which is the slowest of all the small arms caliber rounds in service anywhere in the world. An NIJ Level III plate could have easily stopped them. But at that range, the chances of a stray round or two hitting a section of the body not covered by the plate increases exponentially. So there is that but still, it is my belief that plate carriers could have saved at least a few of them.

+ taking into account the injuries due to fall which makes chances of survival close to none.

Well, if they could recover and start shooting back even after the fall, then the injuries, even if serious, were in all likelihood nonfatal. And even if we are to take your assertion as true, then at least those two who didn't fell down could have survived had they been wearing plate carriers, don't you think??

 

[NAMICA]

Yeah, I know that.

That's simply not correct.
First of all, the tangos had been using AKMs, so they must have been using M47 (or some locally made copy of it) ammo which is the slowest of all the small arms caliber rounds in service anywhere in the world. An NIJ Level III plate could have easily stopped them. But at that range, the chances of a stray round or two hitting a section of the body not covered by the plate increases exponentially. So there is that but still, it is my belief that plate carriers could have saved at least a few of them.

Well, if they could recover and start shooting back even after the fall, then the injuries, even if serious, were in all likelihood nonfatal. And even if we are to take your assertion as true, then at least those two who didn't fell down could have survived had they been wearing plate carriers, don't you think??

Oo bhai bolna asaan hai.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

I see, that explains it. Thank you for the info. I wonder if some of those lads might have made it had they been issued with proper plate carriers.

Thats difficult but the main thing was ...the other team on the other mountain waited for the daylight to reach them.

Air Assets also questionable.

 

[ArgonPrime]

Oo bhai bolna asaan hai.

Bhai, toh maine kab kaha ki operations assan hota hai?? Thik hai fir, marne do sipahi-o ko, waise bhi yeha hum mein sein kisi ka kaha kuch jata hai.

 

[ArgonPrime]

Thats difficult but the main thing was ...the other team on the other mountain waited for the daylight to reach them.

So this op is a prime example of how a lack of proper equipment can spell disaster. I hope this shuts off the ones in the other camp.

Air Assets also questionable.

So true. I sometimes wonder, couldn't a FLIR-equipped gunship have done the job?? I mean it was not like they were fighting inside a town or a village, it was in the middle of nowhere. So why not use airpower?? What's your take on it, sir??

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

So this op is a prime example of how a lack of proper equipment can spell disaster. I hope this shuts off the ones in the other camp.

So true. I sometimes wonder, couldn't a FLIR-equipped gunship have done the job?? I mean it was not like they were fighting inside a town or a village, it was in the middle of nowhere. So why not use airpower?? What's your take on it, sir??

What we can appreciate is that the balidan of the 2 guys made sure the terrorist didnt have the last word.

But

The other team made no effort in immediately tracking them..i dont think its because of the lack of will when we are conducting ops with big fucking torches.

Number 2 ..where was the fucking surveillance? Air assets ?

Nunber 3 ...Now this might pinch a few but were SOPs follwed for high altitude mountainous terrain as per HAWS training specially for specialist of Para SF.

.......

Yes attack helos could have taken them out.You can fire 30 mm on a bare mountain with no civilians.

 

[ArgonPrime]

What we can appreciate is that the balidan of the 2 guys made sure the terrorist didnt have the last word.

Of course, I appreciate what those men did. Words simply can not do justice to their bravery.

But

The other team made no effort in immediately tracking them..i dont think its because of the lack of will when we are conducting ops with big fucking torches.

I said lack of proper equipment, as in NVDs. But yeah, I agree wholeheartedly.

2 ..where was the fucking surveillance? Air assets ?

Exactly, why wasn't air recon constantly feeding the team with real-time information about the movement and bearing of the tangos??

Nunber 3 ...Now this might pinch a few but were SOPs follwed for high altitude mountainous terrain as per HAWS training specially for specialist of Para SF.

Yeah, a certain pleb will now accuse you of being a paki ******.
.......

Yes attack helos could have taken them out.You can fire 30 mm on a bare mountain with no civilians.

Yeah, even a Rudra could have done the job.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Of course, I appreciate what those men did. Words simply can not do justice to their bravery.

I said lack of proper equipment, as in NVDs. But yeah, I agree wholeheartedly.

Exactly, why wasn't air recon constantly feeding the team with real-time information about the movement and bearing of the tangos??

Yeah, a certain pleb will now accuse you of being a paki ******.
.......


Yeah, even a Rudra could have done the job.

Lack of modern culture in Indian armed forces. IA requires modern tech savvy kind of dudes to procure weapons as these boomers are always outdated. We lack a sniper culture. Even a sniper engagement could have ended the encounter. Our SFs lack dedicated drone surveillance.

So our SF lacks:
1. COMTACs
2. Modern Plate Carriers
3. Dedicated drone surveillance
4. Modern weapons
5. Modern uniforms like MULTICAM
6. Dual tube and Quad tube NVGs
7. Modern optics and Marksman rifles
8. Modern accessories and attachments for weapons

and so on...