Indian Special Forces (archived)

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WMD

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you cant make out much from his face.
i am saying in a general sense that MARCOS guys never show their faces.
we all hav watched the press conference by MARCOS guys during 26/11 and all had their face covered.
the pic where a US secret service agent is chatting on the phone where as a MARCOS commando is standing vigilant, also had his face covered.
the above pic is discussed many times in many forums and blogs and most opine that this pic is of SPB rather than MARCOS.
ask @Decklander.
 
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sayareakd

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i am saying in a general sense that MARCOS guys never show their faces.
we all hav watched the press conference by MARCOS guys during 26/11 and all had their face covered.
the pic where a US secret service agent is chatting on the phone where as a MARCOS commando is standing vigilant, also had his face covered.
the above pic is discussed many times in many forums and blogs and most opine that this pic is of SPB rather than MARCOS.
ask @Decklander.
Well as per the their internal document\law applicable to them they are not suppose to show their face in public.
 
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abingdonboy

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Well as per the their internal document\law applicable to them they are not suppose to show their face in public.
I have heard it is their policy not to but I didn't know it was an offical document/law within the IN. Any source?

@Decklander could you clarify once and for all sir- SPB or MARCOs,


I am 99% sure they are SPB but just to confirm to everyone else.
 
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sayareakd

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@abingdonboy Just think of it, who will they give tavor rifles with all sorts of things, SPB or Morcos
 
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Decklander

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The guys in camouflage are SPB and not MARCOS. SPB carries same equipment as MARCOS but they are more like normal commandos and not as highly trained as MARCOS.
 

mikhail

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The guys in camouflage are SPB and not MARCOS. SPB carries same equipment as MARCOS but they are more like normal commandos and not as highly trained as MARCOS.
sir,just a little question,why do you think the SPB adopted the same digital camo and Tavor tar-21 ARs all of a sudden after the MARCOS changed their black camo for the digital one and adopted the Tavor as their primary AR?i mean is it just a co-incidence or there is something much more big going on in the I.N.:confused:?
 

Decklander

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You maybe aware that IN is in the process of acquiring four LPDs. The aim is to have a complete brigade of marine expeditionary force in next few years. This will supplement the four amphi brigades being created by IA.
 

abingdonboy

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@abingdonboy Just think of it, who will they give tavor rifles with all sorts of things, SPB or Morcos


Ends all debate:


The guys in camouflage are SPB and not MARCOS. SPB carries same equipment as MARCOS but they are more like normal commandos and not as highly trained as MARCOS.

Take from a defence personal!




+ btw @arnabmit

Wrt this pic you have posted claiming to MARCOs:




The very guy who took this pic (Prasun K Segupta) has categorically stated these guys are SPB. He spoke to them and they confirmed this, they identified themselves as SPB and then posed for a pic. I cannot see the MARCOs be so obliging.



This is what he has been saying recently on the SPB:

All Q&A related to SPB by PKS.


Bhaswar - What exactly is the use of the LDPs in the hands of the IN, we have not been very keen on a marine infantry capability in the past?

Prasun K. Sengupta - By the time the LPHs enter service, the IN will have a 15,000-strong Sagar Prahari Bal force.



Unknown - How well trained and equipped will this "15,000-strong Sagar Prahari Bal force" be?

And where are they being trained?

I've not heard anything along the lines of the IN rasing their own Marine-infantry unit only the SPB where to protect vital IN installations and numbered 2,000.

Now they are a Marine infantry unit?

Will they have their own artilliery peices, ICVs, MBTs, aviation elemants, training centres, combat engineers etc?

Can you do a full write up on the Sagar Prahari Bal? This is a big moment in Indian military history if true, to date the Indian military has had nothing of the sort other than a few IA btns stained,somewhat, in amphibious landings but ill-equipped to do so by modern standards.


Prasun K. Sengupta - The SPB's total sanctioned strength can't be raised in three years or even six years. Training is done in Orissa & Kakinada. SPB's sanctioned strength is clearly mentioned in the MoD's official gazette issued two years ago. I had already explained this back in late 2011 & had outlined the future plans for SPB's hardware reqmts. I had drafted a confidential paper & related PowerPoint presentation for HQ Integrated Defence Staff in mid-2011 on the SPB, but & NCND regulations prevent me from disclosing the contents of such presentations.



Bhaswar - For what purpose is the Sagar Prahari Bal being deployed? As in how do you see them operating in the future and towards what goal?

Prasun K. Sengupta - SPB is initially being employed for the protection of all shore-based operational naval establishments. It will eventually grow into a full-fledged 15,000-strong naval infantry force capable of staging amphibious assaults.



KSingh - I understand you are bound by certain restrictions to keep silent on certain specific details. But can you please share some of the most general details wrt the SBP.

Will they be well equipped and well trained for their role?

What will be their standard issue assault rifle?

Given the fact the IA is upgrading itself wrt FINSAS, will the SPB have similar tech and provisions?

Is the MoD taking the raising of SPB seriously? Are the IN going to raise them "properly" is wih sufficient funds and training?

Also will they have the requisite logistical elements is engineers, EOD, arty, EME etc?

Will the UCM camo and Tavor be the standard "look" of the SBP as you have speculated in the past?

When can we expect the SPB to be at full strength?

Do you not agree the raising of this force is a signifcant moment for India?

Prasun K. Sengupta - O yaara, of course they will be well-armed & adequately equipped, as is the case with every other fighting unit of India's armed forces. They certainly won't go to war with bamboo sticks or batons on bicycles. Tavor family of assault rifles & cerbines along with Galil LMGs have already been issued. SPB will have its own version of FINSAS, i.e. the integrated combat system, for which the RFI was released last year. Of course the MoD is taking such issues seriously. If not, then it would not have officially gazzetted the official sanctioned strength of SPB at 15,000. But realising this figure takes a long time since this requires a quantum expansion of existing shore-based & offshore training facilities (like the ones now coming up in Kakinada), firing ranges, accommodation for personnel, etc. By 2018, it is estimated that the SPB will reach its full-strength in terms of both manpower & firepower, plus its various logistical elements minus the four LPHs.

The concept paper for the SPB was ready in 2004 itself & by 2006 had been refined & frozen by IN HQ & was sent to the MoD & Union MoF for approval. However, it was finally approved as a matter of urgency after the 26/11 attacks in Mumbai.



KSingh
- But what I meant was well armed and trained relative to the likes of comparative units in the West. Say if you look at the standard IA soldier right now and his US counterpart. Whilst India might consider their Jawan well equipped, by international standards it is pitiful. I know the F-INSAS effort will go some way to address this though.

And how will the SPB protect against a 26/11 type attack in the future? If they are being raised along the lines of the USMC then they are an expeditionary fighting force.

Also who are training these guys? MARCOs?


Also does the IN then have more ambitious plans for the SPB's future expansion adding not just numbers but also capabilities like MBTs, ICVs, artillery,snipers, combat engineers etc?

Also why has the raising of this force been comedy ignored by the Indian media, I mean this is HUGE news and is going to bring capabilities to India we could only dream of in the past.

And sir, whilst you may have mentioned these guys in breif in the past I was wondering if you could do a full and detailed write-up on the SPB is about its roles, training, cabilities, future capabilities etc? I would LOVE to know more on these guys.

Prasun K. Sengupta - No one can claim to be on an even par with US soldiers. Nor is it necessary to always make the US the measuring yardstick. The fighting unit of today hailing from the Indian Army is a far cry from what was seen by all during OP Vijay in 1999 or OP Parakram in 2002, even with FINSAS. It is nopt the SPB's mandate to provide protection for civilian areas under 26/11-type attacks. As the name suggests, SPB is an expeditionary warfighting force throughout the seas. That's the literal translation of the term SPB. And why should MARCOS train the SPB? The roles & missions of MARCOS are totally different from those of the SPB.

Just read this: TRISHUL: Indian Navy Swears By Its Tavor Family Of Small Arms & Its Four Upgraded Class 209/Type 1500 SSKs & go to sub-section: Required: More Teeth For Sea Warriors

As for why the 'desi' mass-media has failed to report about the SPB in detail, I guess the 'desi' news-reporters are too lazy to read up the official Govt of India gazettes that are routinely published & are available for sale in any Govt-owned bookshops throughout the country.

However, the concept paper for SPB, titled "Effecting Maritime Manoeuvres From The Sea" remains out-of-bounds for the time-being.



KSingh - I agree the MARCOs are not the ideal trainers for the SPB, but then who is training this force? The IN,other than in the MARCOs, does not have any of the requisite skilled instructors in expeditionary warfare or amphibious assault. This knowledge has to come from somewhere to impart on the SPB. Has the IN then hired foreign consultants from the like of the US or France?

Prasun K. Sengupta - As for SPB's training-related issues, the IN has for almost a decade now been sending its officers as observers to various amphibious training exercises conducted by PACOM throughout East Asia & the Western Pacific, & a lot has been learnt from such activities. One therefore doesn't require foreign consultants. 12-tonne MRHs & LCACs will come along with the LPHs. Kakinada will in future become one of two integrated amphibious warfare training centres of the Indian Navy, with the second one coming up along India's southwestern seaboard around Ezhimala.

Tallies perfectly with what @Decklander sir has said.


@arnabmit if you won't believe a seasoned defence reporter and a member of the Indian defence forces, who will you believe?
 
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abingdonboy

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sir,just a little question,why do you think the SPB adopted the same digital camo and Tavor tar-21 ARs all of a sudden after the MARCOS changed their black camo for the digital one and adopted the Tavor as their primary AR?i mean is it just a co-incidence or there is something much more big going on in the I.N.:confused:?
Mate this is actually quite common in militaries ie the "trickle-down effect". Look at what,say, the US SEALs and Green Berets had in the 2003 Iraq war, now every US foot soldier has almost identical kit from the camo to the assualt rifles to the helmet etc. Just in this case as the SPB is a new force, the IN has given them very similar kit. The situation will be back to normal in a few years when the MARCOs start receiving their new FCS.
 

sayareakd

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@abingdonboy i wont believe Prasun K. Sengupta, as he was wrong on so many times, i even saw him taking pics in one of the defexpo.

I would believe what ever Decklander sir says.
 
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shuvo@y2k10

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do anybody has a good recent pic of raw's ssb which is also supposed to be a special force.
 

ALBY

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do anybody has a good recent pic of raw's ssb which is also supposed to be a special force.
Its noty actually SSB but SSF which is a SF.SSB is just a paramilitary just like crpf often accussed of helping the cross border smuggling and crossing of wanted criminals along indo nepal border.
 
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