Indian Special Forces (archived)

[Assassin 2.0]

Like I Said 5 Tangos Armed With Automatic AK-47 that's 150 rounds.No Training In World Will Prepare You For Escaping 7.62 x 39 At Point blank

Only willpower and determination Sachi nishta can force person to kill the enemy even after getting 15 shots
Few pages back one fellow member was telling how 4 para SF operators think that they are unstoppable unchallenged.

 

[12arya]

But how did three of them manage to stumble and fall into that ditch at the same time?? This doesn't add up at all.

“One of the squads didn’t realise that they were on a cornice. The complete snow block collapsed taking the squad leader and the two scouts down all the way to the nallah where the terrorists were sitting... It led to a close-quarter battle at almost point blank range,”

 

[Underground Soldier]

whilst you’re at it why not bring in Bihar police? You understand COBRA are for a very specific job right? They are for tackling LWE and do a superb job at it, why dilute their training and capabilities by dropping them into something they are totally alien to?


It is right for the interior to be protected by police units like CRPF QAT and for them to be the lead agencies in protecting the mainland but at the LoC where Pakistan is sending in equivalents of special forces in some of the most hostile terrain around what do you think will be gained by deploying a CRPF unit other than an ungodly amount of blood lost?

Please don't underestimate Bihar police. You may not be aware of it but the most wanted terrorist of India yaseen Bhatkal was arrested by same BP. And if they are trained well, they can also do well.
And regarding blood lost, it's exactly the same reason that we are discussing this today.

 

[ArgonPrime]

Only willpower and determination Sachi nishta can force person to kill the enemy even after getting 15 shots
Few pages back one fellow member was telling how 4 para SF operators think that they are unstoppable unchallenged.

Do you suffer from some form of comprehension disability or something?? My comment was clearly a jibe pointed towards you, as in YOU are the one who thinks these guys are simply infallible, as in YOU are the one who ascribed this whole larger than life image on them. It had nothing to do with what they may or may not think of themselves!!

 

[ArgonPrime]

Please don't underestimate Bihar police. You may not be aware of it but the most wanted terrorist of India yaseen Bhatkal was arrested by same BP. And if they are trained well, they can also do well.

You are from Bihar, aren't you??

 

[12arya]

Only willpower and determination Sachi nishta can force person to kill the enemy even after getting 15 shots

our men, both SF and regulars r famous for it na.
Our PVC decorated soldiers all took tonnes of bullets yet captured those peaks in kargil! their guts is out of this world. My pranaams to our braves.

 

[ArgonPrime]

“One of the squads didn’t realise that they were on a cornice. The complete snow block collapsed taking the squad leader and the two scouts down all the way to the nallah where the terrorists were sitting... It led to a close-quarter battle at almost point blank range,”

This just further hints at what I'd been saying all along.

 

[Indrajit]

Yeah, the snow had formed an overhang which gave in, I get that. My point is, why were these folks huddled up so close to each other?? What happened to maintaining at least 2-3 meter spread between each member which is like the first thing they teach in infantry school??

We have no idea how big the Cornice was that cracked. Best to assume that they knew what they were doing. Tough luck

 

[Alligator]

One piece of equipment which can help in such encounters would be a foliage penetrating radar
One can mount such radars on helicopters or male uas which can then provide the operators on the ground with real time target tracking even in dense jungle terrain typical of loc
We can have a small but dedicated fleet of helps/uas equipped with these radars that can be launched for both target detection and tracking

 

[Assassin 2.0]

9 Para SF you are talking about .

They have a big mental factor which is motivation.High standards set from the beginning.Always involved in ops.

So that brings it to paltan ki izzat.

They like to believe that they are invincibles and that helps actually till the first bullet hits you and you realise you are a normal human being.

One incident i will share....

4 terrorists were hiding in a cave in a jungle.RR guys sorrounded them but when they tried to approach they took casualties.

Hence they decided they wont approach.But the location of the cave was also unknown.

So a team of Para was called.

This team had mix bunch of operators from few Para SF units.

Firstly the Para doesnt hang around with RR or regulars because they have a superiority complex.

Secondly withing the mix para sf unit the 9 para sf guys decided they will approach the cave headon without even knowing where the cave is exactly located.

2 operators from 9 para sf charged an upslope and one was hit on the forehead and other on the body... the rest of the operators neutralised the cave bunker.

So this is what they are at the end..their belief that they are invincibles.

Mostly it has gone in their favour..but not in this incident.

Do you suffer from some form of comprehension disability or something?? My comment was clearly a jibe pointed towards you, as in YOU are the one who thinks these guys are simply infallible, as in YOU are the one who ascribed this whole larger than life image on them. It had nothing to do with what they may or may not think of themselves!!

I was talking about the above thing which cold-hearted posted i was not quoting anything which you said......
I'm not interested in BS. :bs:

 

[abingdonboy]

You think the use of proper body armor could have averted this tragedy or at least lessen the extent??

At these extremely close quarters (less than 50m) 7.62*39 bullets will rip through all body armour currently in service anywhere on this planet.

plus there’s always that trade off of bulk vs protection- it’s not practical for these kind of high speed operators to be wearing EOD bomb suits when they are ripping through forests, jungles and mountains.


Practically speaking once they were in this position body armour could not have saved them- no unit in the world would’ve been safe.

I think what he meant to ask was whether it was really necessary to send in the Paras when the location could have simply been cordoned off and then neutralize/capture them once they got out of their hidey-hole eventually. I think it could have been a viable option if the exact location of the tangos could have been pinpointed and even then it would have meant tieing up a sizable amount of force in harsh terrain and weather conditions. Given the circumstances, it was probably not an option.

like you noted above cordons can always be slipped, you need to take the fight to the terrorist, a passive wait and watch approach will only lead to more lives lost in the long run.


Also reading Shiv Aroor’s article it is clear the cordon and search option was taken first but after a few days when the exact location of the terrorists could not be determined the SFs were called in and this was the right call imo. Sending in an infantry unit under these circumstances could’ve been horrific.


like i said, these tactics have been successful to date but you can’t always win.

 

[abingdonboy]

One piece of equipment which can help in such encounters would be a foliage penetrating radar
One can mount such radars on helicopters or male uas which can then provide the operators on the ground with real time target tracking even in dense jungle terrain typical of loc
We can have a small but dedicated fleet of helps/uas equipped with these radars that can be launched for both target detection and tracking

And can such UAV and Helos operate when vis is down to 100s of Feet or even 0 as is consistent with heavy snow? No they cannot.

technology always has its limitations.

 

[Underground Soldier]

Like I Said 5 Tangos Armed With Automatic AK-47 that's 150 rounds.No Training In World Will Prepare You For Escaping 7.62 x 39 At Point blank

Man, you know what, we will be killing Terrorists and many of the time getting killed by them. Because they are sent to die here. In their beliefs if they killed a Kafir they are a ghazi, if got killed by Kafir, then jannat. They are radicalized insanely and hundreds of thousands of such youth can in found in South Punjab like Bahalwalpur, narowal. What we need to do is to beat them psychologically. We need to let them know that if they are killed by us, they aren't going to be in Jannat. We should kill them and burn their bodies or maybe use pig blood against them. It will save dragmula cemetery!

 

[Underground Soldier]

You are from Bihar, aren't you??

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ArgonPrime]

I was talking about the above thing which cold-hearted posted i was not quoting anything which you said......
I'm not interested in BS. :bs:

Now now, do not backtrack like that, little piggy. You specifically mentioned 4 Para whereas Cold was talking about the 9th!! But nice try.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Now now, do not backtrack like that, little piggy. You specifically mentioned 4 Para whereas Cold was talking about the 9th!! But nice try.

Idiot i didn't wanted to waste 10-15 minutes of my life in finding the post by cold hearted that's why i said one fellow member i didn't even remembered who posted that anyway if i was was quoting you then i could have easily quoted you in that text.
Anyway 4para 9 para all are branches of the same tree. Anyone can get confused between numbers but the thing which i was saying is based on what cold hearted said.


I'm not interested in your idiotic rants keep it up. :ghey:

 

[ArgonPrime]

At these extremely close quarters (less than 50m) 7.62*39 bullets will rip through all body armour currently in service anywhere on this planet.

Dude, that may have been true in the 90s perhaps but not in this day and age!! We have made tremendous progress in the fields of material sciences since then and as a result, even a relatively cheap steel armor plate, like the Ar 500 Level III plate, which costs about ~90$ a pop is rated to provide complete protection against dozens of M193 5.56 rounds and up to 7.62X51 at literally point-blank range!!
All level III plates are required to provide this degree of protection in order to get certified but I mentioned the steel plates because they are cheaper and far more durable and less bulky at the cost of more weight.

plus there’s always that trade off of bulk vs protection- it’s not practical for these kind of high speed operators to be wearing EOD bomb suits when they are ripping through forests, jungles and mountains.

You don't have to, really. Protecing the vital organs is more than good enough under most circumstances but I see your point.

Practically speaking once they were in this position body armour could not have saved them- no unit in the world would’ve been safe.

Maybe not those three who fell into that ravine but the other two might have survived.

 

[IndiaRising]

any pictures of dead Kupwara jihadis?

 

[ArgonPrime]

Idiot i didn't wanted to waste 10-15 minutes of my life in finding the post by cold hearted that's why i said one fellow member i didn't even remembered who posted that anyway if i was was quoting you then i could have easily quoted you in that text.
Anyway 4para 9 para all are branches of the same tree. Anyone can get confused between numbers but the thing which i was saying is based on what cold hearted said.

Yeah right. By that logic, the Seal Team 6 is the same thing as the Seal Team 1............... and you have the audacity to hurl such ad-hominem attacks against others.

I'm not interested in your idiotic rants keep it up. :ghey:

That's pretty high and mighty coming from a clueless nincompoop.

 

[abingdonboy]

The last pic of the lost team


Now see what these guys were up against, this isn’t a game for the light hearted, this isn’t something just anyone could do.

such is the game of life, things happen.