Indian Special Forces (archived)

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

15km? That would take more than 3 hours with battle loads, in thick vegetation and mountainous terrain ONE WAY, 6+ (best case scenario) hours to go in, get the pilot(s) and get back out and all this without Pakis deploying MASSIVE assets to interfere with this plan? I don't think so.


Any such mission would be doomed to fail from the outset, you'd end up transforming 1-2 POWs into 12+ (that's if the Garuds didn't get aggressive and try and fight it out) .


Like I said, it's only possible with helos, if it can't be done with them it can't be done at all.

Haha mine has a better chance of survival..in your situation we will loose 6 pilots and 18 commandos in the rescue.

If surgical strikes could be pulled out this is nothing.All that the pilot has to do is hide and not come out until contact is established.

But in your case your are suggesting we go to the party with loud speakers..guess who will get all the attention.

Anyway its a hypothetical situation.

 

[abingdonboy]

Haha mine has a better chance of survival..in your situation we will loose 6 pilots and 18 commandos in the rescue.

If surgical strikes could be pulled out this is nothing.All that the pilot has to do is hide and not come out until contact is established.

But in your case your are suggesting we go to the party with loud speakers..guess who will get all the attention.

The Surgical strikes can't be compared to a CSAR op. In the SS the PARA (SF) had the element of surprise and weeks of planning on their side. They could strike when they liked and had a huge amount of tactical leeway.

A CSAR op is like a direct action mission- they have to go now and go into a totally unknown situation that too after the enemy is already alert. By the time they get to the pilot across the LoC/IB he'll already be in custody and I doubt a CSAR team could even reach that far into enemy territory under those conditions anyway.


A helo op is the only viable way- in and out in less than 20 mins but obviously it's hugely risky.

Clearly it's a horrendously complex mission with little chance of success whatever way you go about it.

Anyway its a hypothetical situation.

Not so much, India's CSAR capabilities (or lack of them) was highlighted last year when Abhi went down.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

The Surgical strikes can't be compared to a CSAR op. In the SS the PARA (SF) had the element of surprise and weeks of planning on their side. They could strike when they liked and had a huge amount of tactical leeway.

A CSAR op is like a direct action mission- they have to go now and go into a totally unknown situation that too after the enemy is already alert. By the time they get to the pilot across the LoC/IB he'll already be in custody and I doubt a CSAR team could even reach that far into enemy territory under those conditions anyway.


A helo op is the only viable way- in and out in less than 20 mins but obviously it's hugely risky.

Clearly it's a horrendously complex mission with little chance of success whatever way you go about it.



Not so much, India's CSAR capabilities (or lack of them) was highlighted last year when Abhi went down.

Unless you can eatablish air superiority over the area it is a suicide mission.

Remember what happened to our helicopters and jets in the first few days of kargil... and that was not even the Paki AF.. just sams.

 

[abingdonboy]

Unless you can eatablish air superiority over the area it is a suicide mission.

Remember what happened to our helicopters and jets in the first few days of kargil... and that was not even the Paki AF.. just sams.

Well the Mi-8 that went down in Kargil had 0 CMS at all, that's why I said the IAF needs to invest in specialised helos specifically for the CSAR role


HH-60G(USAF CSAR bird):

I'm not saying these helos will be entirely protected from ground threats but having RWR, MAWS and DIRCM is as good as they can be protected and the best option India has for pilot retrieval otherwise it has no options.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Well the Mi-8 that went down in Kargil had 0 CMS at all, that's why I said the IAF needs to invest in specialised helos specifically for the CSAR role


HH-60G(USAF CSAR bird):

I'm not saying these helos will be entirely protected from ground threats but having RWR, MAWS and DIRCM is as good as they can be protected and the best option India has for pilot retrieval otherwise it has no options.

The Garud look too confused to press hard for this option.

 

[rkhanna]

Well a CSAR in the mountain would require 2x Dhruvs , 2x LCH 1x Rudra with a mult-spectrum jammer with CAS on ourside of the border to interdict. The formation would fly below the ridgeline.

The primary threat js not fixed SAMs but manapads. A SOF Aviation Unit would be trained up to fight through a heavy Sam enviorment .

 

[Gessler]

Joint exercise between IAF Garuds and RAF Force Protection units (from RAF Regiment & RAF Police) during Exercise Indradhanush at AFS Hindon -

 

[Gessler]

Some more.............................................................................................

 

[abingdonboy]

The Garud looks too confused to press hard for this option.

To a degree but then what kind of scope does any SF have in their parent service to get such mammoth capital acquisitions?

It shouldn't be up to Garuds alone to push for these assets but when IAF raised the Garuds they should have approached it as a full-spectrum capability they were seeking, instead the generals did it on the cheap and thought slapping a "commando" (now SF) badge on their arms and ordering some Tavors was sufficient.

IAF said they needed their own SF for these specialist roles and then did what...? They should've had a 100 point plan but stopped after point 1 or 2.

Well a CSAR in the mountain would require 2x Dhruvs , 2x LCH 1x Rudra with a mult-spectrum jammer with CAS on ourside of the border to interdict. The formation would fly below the ridgeline.

The primary threat js not fixed SAMs but manapads. A SOF Aviation Unit would be trained up to fight through a heavy Sam enviorment .

Exact composition of air wing can be debated.


SOD isn't going to solve this mess but hopefully they do cause a rethink and the experiment leads to the SOCOM

 

[abingdonboy]

The RAF regiment aren't even SF but they have better helmets and comns gear then Indian SF

/facepalm


I'm just living for the day when during these kind of exercise the Indian side isn't entirely embarrassing itself with their pi$$ poor equipment levels.

 

[rkhanna]

To a degree but then what kind of scope does any SF have in their parent service to get such mammoth capital acquisitions?


Exact composition of air wing can be debated.


SOD isn't going to solve this mess but hopefully they do cause a rethink and the experiment leads to the SOCOM

like i mentioned before. SOF capability is about the entire infrastructure of the military. not just one man/unit etc. Everything from CAS, ISR, Transport has to work in sync.

Hot CSAR is a vital SOF capability and can still be achieved with near peer powers. Yes there are times when the Airspace is so denied that its not feasible to even launch and then you hope that the Pilot remembers his SERE training and can do effective E&E till a ground unit can reach and extract. In the case of WC Varthaman he was still relatively far from hostile forces (he was picked up by villagers, Pak mil forces got to him a bit later) and he was relatively close to Indian border where support may have been possible. But the situation was dynamic and hostile ingress to extract him would have been a political no no given that the IAF was already trying to descalate by not pursing the F-16s back inside Pak when we had enough assets in the Air.

- Still not sure if the Mil17 that was launched was CSAR or not but was definetly not garud.

 

[rkhanna]

I'm just living for the day when during these kind of exercise the Indian side isn't entirely embarrassing itself with their pi$$ poor equipment levels

In the early 2000s a Marine MAGTAF unit had cross trained with the Sikh LI . Got to hang a few of the marines (kids really) in Leopold when they were in town for R&R and almost across the board the Comment was "First rate troops, throw the kit in the sea"

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

By the way!

We missed out an event.

Last month a khalistani terrorist was assassinated in Pakistan.

Khalistani groups are claiming it to be a RAW operation and our baba from twitter also posted that our operators have reached their safe houses unhurt on the same day he was killed.

This has to be a RAW operation.Looks like Modi has activated RAW's assasination squad based in Pakistan.It was de activated in 97 by IK Gujral.


The squad or unit has no name.. keeps changing.

 

[Atcjurvin]

By the way!

We missed out an event.

Last month a khalistani terrorist was assassinated in Pakistan.

Khalistani groups are claiming it to be a RAW operation and our baba from twitter also posted that our operators have reached their safe houses unhurt on the same day he was killed.

This has to be a RAW operation.Looks like Modi has activated RAW's assasination squad based in Pakistan.It was de activated in 97 by IK Gujral.


The squad or unit has no name.. keeps changing.

It took time to reactivate assests in Pakistan thanks to doval.

 

[rkhanna]

By the way!

We missed out an event.

Last month a khalistani terrorist was assassinated in Pakistan.

Khalistani groups are claiming it to be a RAW operation and our baba from twitter also posted that our operators have reached their safe houses unhurt on the same day he was killed.

This has to be a RAW operation.Looks like Modi has activated RAW's assasination squad based in Pakistan.It was de activated in 97 by IK Gujral.


The squad or unit has no name.. keeps changing.

Sorry bro but just bs and innuendo. That idiot Baba is just playing to the gallary.

RAw reactivates CIT-j/x and the first thing they do is go after some low level khalistani thug ? No way.

First if this is indeed true the level of people cleared tk know would be so entirely small some idiot conspiracy nutt would not be tweeting about jt.

Second the Khalistan movement is effectively dead. The left over remanents in Pak have more or less overstayed their welcome . No more monthly stipends from isi they are drug and human smugglers now. No way RAW is running a high risk opp for such low value targets . The probabilities of getting caught are insanely high .

The math doesn't work

 

[Atcjurvin]

Sorry bro but just bs and innuendo. That idiot Baba is just playing to the gallary.

RAw reactivates CIT-j/x and the first thing they do is go after some low level khalistani thug ? No way.

First if this is indeed true the level of people cleared tk know would be so entirely small some idiot conspiracy nutt would not be tweeting about jt.

Second the Khalistan movement is effectively dead. The left over remanents in Pak have more or less overstayed their welcome . No more monthly stipends from isi they are drug and human smugglers now. No way RAW is running a high risk opp for such low value targets . The probabilities of getting caught are insanely high .

The math doesn't work

He was not low level thug first go and read about him properly.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Sorry bro but just bs and innuendo. That idiot Baba is just playing to the gallary.

RAw reactivates CIT-j/x and the first thing they do is go after some low level khalistani thug ? No way.

First if this is indeed true the level of people cleared tk know would be so entirely small some idiot conspiracy nutt would not be tweeting about jt.

Second the Khalistan movement is effectively dead. The left over remanents in Pak have more or less overstayed their welcome . No more monthly stipends from isi they are drug and human smugglers now. No way RAW is running a high risk opp for such low value targets . The probabilities of getting caught are insanely high .

The math doesn't work

Actually he is a very important guy.He is most wanted and also Indian police have got 9 red corner notice issued against him.He also has links to Kashmiri terrorists.

Baba did not tweet about him directly..he said our 12 operatives are safe..mission failed this time.

And the next day the news of him getting killed came up.
Maybe someone more important escaped.

And read about the BLF and its targets in the last few years....you will realise something is going on there.

Such ops are like ghosts to the common people..some believe some dont.But i have no doubt that if Modi can order AF to bomb Pak territory he can for sure re-activate our assets.

 

[AbRaj]

Good.

We can't make aero engines. Let's disband the Air Force.

We can't make marine engines either. Disband the Navy.

He is a devoted supporter of OFB . So his thinking is different

 

[rkhanna]

He was not low level thug first go and read about him properly.

My point is that the Khalistan movement itself is so insignificant that any senior member is also a low level thug.

He maybe a redcorner notice guy but so you think India in the early days of setting up a black bag unit would risk it getting unraveled against a Khalistani operative when we have other more important targets to prosecute in such a target rich enviorment ?

And that too that baba tweeted about the team reaching safehouses. ?!!! Makes for a nice c grade Bollywood script for War 2 maybe but I don't buy it

IMO I have a whole different view of actors in Pak that RAW utilizes and bank rolls. I highly doubt indian operatives would be involved in such an op. It's easier to give the Balouchis a bucket of money and let them go hammer and tongs

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

My point is that the Khalistan movement itself is so insignificant that any senior member is also a low level thug.

He maybe a redcorner notice guy but so you think India in the early days of setting up a black bag unit would risk it getting unraveled against a Khalistani operative when we have other more important targets to prosecute in such a target rich enviorment ?

And that too that baba tweeted about the team reaching safehouses. ?!!! Makes for a nice c grade Bollywood script for War 2 maybe but I don't buy it

IMO I have a whole different view of actors in Pak that RAW utilizes and bank rolls. I highly doubt indian operatives would be involved in such an op. It's easier to give the Balouchis a bucket of money and let them go hammer and tongs

Bro real ops are boring.

Who did the infantry task of manning Siachen posts and assaulting?


Any guesses?





1 and 2 Vikas...boooom

And that too after taking over from Kumaon.

Thats how real world is.