Indian Special Forces (archived)

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ArgonPrime

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rumours i heard 16 ssg in a single night.

cannot verify..i say again i cannot verify or prove anything.
I see.Frankly speaking, I don't mind if all of them (or even none of them really) were not SSG, as long as our lads are eliminating them peski pakis, I'm content with that.Granted, getting a few SSG pigs serves as the sweet sweet icing on the top.
 

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I see.Frankly speaking, I don't mind if all of them (or even none of them really) were not SSG, as long as our lads are eliminating them peski pakis, I'm content with that.Granted, getting a few SSG pigs serves as the sweet sweet icing on the top.
What i can verify though is that some of the engagements are head on ssg vs para sf.

now i am not a blind supporter and i was shocked to know that in all engagements we didnt even have a single casualty... most of the engagements were with our guys out numbered 2:1... And the count for this year alone will be close to 30 if not more.
 

ArgonPrime

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What i can verify though is that some of the engagements are head on ssg vs para sf.
makes perfect sense.Hope our lads got 'em good.
now i am not a blind supporter and i was shocked to know that in all engagements we didnt even have a single casualty...
Beats me as well but knowing our Army, they don't really seem like the hiding own casualty types unlike you know who.
But does it mean our Paras have effectively left them behind and got them beat in terms of training and tactical skill levels or was it sheer dumb luck??
most of the engagements were with our guys out numbered 2:1...
What??Why??!!We do enjoy the numerical advantage in terms of SF personnel, don't we??!!While it's damn impressive that our lads managed to extract such heavy tolls on their arch nemesis without so much even getting scratched while fighting at such poor odds, outnumbered 2 to 1 that is...............why can't they face the intruders in force??
And the count for this year alone will be close to 30 if not more.
It's only the beginning.I just hope the new sniper rifles are put to good use and take as many of their troops as possible.They had been playing this game almost unchallenged for far too long, let our lads pay them back with 10 times the ferocity.
 

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makes perfect sense.Hope our lads got 'em good.

Beats me as well but knowing our Army, they don't really seem like the hiding own casualty types unlike you know who.
But does it mean our Paras have effectively left them behind and got them beat in terms of training and tactical skill levels or was it sheer dumb luck??

What??Why??!!We do enjoy the numerical advantage in terms of SF personnel, don't we??!!While it's damn impressive that our lads managed to extract such heavy tolls on their arch nemesis without so much even getting scratched while fighting at such poor odds, outnumbered 2 to 1 that is...............why can't they face the intruders in force??

It's only the beginning.I just hope the new sniper rifles are put to good use and take as many of their troops as possible.They had been playing this game almost unchallenged for far too long, let our lads pay them back with 10 times the ferocity.
The battlefield is dynamic and Bat teams sometimes have a lot of enemy personnel.

Our guys lay ambush in buddy teams...so sometimes 2 guys come against 4-6 enemy sf head on during low visibilty conditions.
 

abingdonboy

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@Unknowncommando 2 SPG in Bhutan for PM’s visit. CAT present and they also took 3 RR Sentinals for the PM’s transport and a large number of Toyota Fortuners escort vehicles and 2 mobile jammers
 

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rkhanna

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What i can verify though is that some of the engagements are head on ssg vs para sf.

now i am not a blind supporter and i was shocked to know that in all engagements we didnt even have a single casualty... most of the engagements were with our guys out numbered 2:1... And the count for this year alone will be close to 30 if not more.
I think this is completely believable. I believe they today our SF have a superior night fighting capability over the SSG. Last few years of new optic kits and training with them is showing on the battlefield. Coupled with superior ISR over the region they have an unoresendented advantage over any OPFOR along the LOC
 

abingdonboy

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Dont make over ambitious comparisons and raise your bp.

Deep inside we all know our fetish is not gonna be a reality anytime soon regarding the toys.

Main objective right now should be to counter enemy sf with minimum or no casualty which is happening right now.

Enemy SF is trying to carry out ops on loc on a daily basis and are getting slaughtered.

Lets focus on that please... We wont be comparable to US in the next 5 years also... Lets not waste our time and posts doing that.
Not sure anyone is really comparing Indian SOF capabilities to US. There’s simply no comparison, India is 30+ years behind the West in these matters.
 

aditya10r

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Not sure anyone is really comparing Indian SOF capabilities to US. There’s simply no comparison, India is 30+ years behind the West in these matters.
If we are to catch up with them in Long term say 15-20 years,what changes would you bring in our SF institutions??

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 

sorcerer

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Here's another deadly beauty: The FNF-2000S Compact and deadly at close range. Used by SPG guarding Prime minister. Weight - 3.44kg Calibre: 5.56mm Ammo : 5.56x45mm. Uses a 1.6× magnified telescopic sight, notch back-up sight Rate of Fire : at 850 Rounds/min
 

abingdonboy

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If we are to catch up with them in Long term say 15-20 years,what changes would you bring in our SF institutions??

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
It isn’t about equipment but institutional competence. The lack of modern equipment is a symptom of this. SOFs, their utility and mission are largely unknown to the conventional military leadership.

SOD is the first step. SOFs HAVE to be away from the C&C of the “big military” with their own budgets and remit. Let’s see how the SOD experiment works, hopefully it will be headed always by a SF officer and wil report directly to senior leadership and bypass the multiple stifling layers of command.

From SOD tactics will evolve and then new capabilities will be demanded and hopefully granted.

It’s going to take a long time.
 

12arya

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The Indian Army's Special Forces are deployed in counterinsurgency operations in Jammu and Kashmir. Photo: Wikipedia
India tries and fails to improve its special operations forces
PM Modi’s government created a Special Operations Division based on the US’ model but has not so far replicated its success
BySaikat Datta

An attack on a military camp in September 2016 shocked Indians and their government. Militants from Pakistan infiltrated across the Line of Control, which divides Kashmir between the two nations, and attacked a brigade camp in the Uri sector.

India promptly retaliated with cross-border raids attacking “terrorist launch pads” at five places. The Narendra Modi government proudly described the responses as “surgical strikes” by Indian Special Forces.

But the efforts unintentionally highlighted the limited nature of Special Forces capabilities – and especially the fact that Special Forces units are divided under various service heads, ensuring that there is very little coordination among units attached to the army, navy and air force. This forced the Prime Minister’s Office to initiate urgent discussions with India’s top military commanders.

Some changes were made, and by now enough time has elapsed for some tentative professional opinions to emerge about their efficacy. Unfortunately, the consensus verdict so far appears to be: Same old same old.

History: Kennedy and Nehru
India’s military was largely structured as the British created it during its colonial rule. In more recent decades, however, British special forces have seen a significant restructuring with a major general appointed as “director general (special forces)” who is also part of the prime minister’s crisis management committee. This allows a single point of professional advice from the Special Forces to the highest political authorities in the UK.

Independent India’s special forces were born in the the aftermath of the humiliating defeat in the border war with China in 1962. The US had already started arming Tibetan militias to try and stem the Chinese influence in the region.

Discussions between President John F Kennedy and Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru led to cooperation between the Central Intelligence Agency and India’s Intelligence Bureau. This led to the birth of a secret force, made up of Tibetans with Indian Army officers, called the Special Frontier Force or 2-2 Special Forces (2-2 SF).

However, while the 2-2 SF focused solely on China, there was a need for a dedicated special forces unit following the 1965 war with Pakistan. The first unit, raised as the 9th battalion of the Parachute Regiment as a “para-commando” unit, was set up in 1967. By 1968, a second unit was raised and christened as 10 Para-Commando.

Both these units would perform exceedingly well in the 1971 war with Pakistan that led to the birth of Bangladesh. By 1980, an existing parachute battalion, 1 Para, was also converted to a special forces role. In 1990 all the existing “para-commando” battalions were re-christened “Special Forces.”

In 1987, as India ventured into the Sri Lankan civil war, the navy decided to create its special forces capability. It sent off two officers to attend the US Navy SEALs basic course. Lieutenant Arvind Singh aced the course and returned to India to create the Indian Marine Special Forces. In a few years this was renamed the Marine Commando Force (MARCOS).

By 2003, the Indian Air Force had started plans to raise its special forces. Named after a mythical bird, the Garuds were primarily for search and rescue missions.

Alas, by the middle of 2006, India’s multiple special forces were disjointed, expanding rapidly and competing for limited resources, while responding to multiple commands.

Restructuring special forces
Just weeks before the results of India’s general elections were announced, the Modi government announced that Major General A K Dhingra would be the first commander of a newly created Special Operations Division. The SOD is India’s version of the United States Special Operations Command, based at McDill Air Force Base in Florida.

The SOD is the outcome of one of the “reform” efforts initiated soon after the Kashmir attack. Lieutenant General Hardev Singh Lidder, commissioned into the first army special forces unit that was set up in 1967-68, rose through the service and retired as an army commander. He was tasked to prepare a paper on setting up a special forces command.

However, Lidder’s proposal met with resistance in the Ministry of Defense with civilian bureaucrats raising doubts about the concept. The civilians object to giving that much power to the military. “Frankly, I am not sure if they are interested in getting the kind of capabilities that we need,” Lidder told Asia Times.

Faced with resistance to the idea of creating a US-style command structure, everyone settled for a compromise called the Special Forces Division. While a normal division has about 9000 fighting troops, this one is supposed to be significantly smaller.

“This creates some very real problems,” said Lieutenant General Prakash Katoch, a former special forces veteran who wrote three key papers on restructuring India’s special operations capabilities. “Basically we should have started with two or three battalions, and that would form part of the core special operations capability,” he said.

SOD is also being placed under the chief of integrated defense staff (CIDS), a stop-gap arrangement that was created after the Kargil war, but has continued since then because a proposal regarding a chief of defense staff was never cleared.

Politicians don’t want a post called chief of defense staff, which would be filled by the most senior military officer, because they fear the post would assume too much power, so they’ve stuck with CIDS, a post held by a junior general.

The result of the “reforms”: Each current Special Forces unit remains part of its respective service and the units have no cross-functional capability. They procure weapons separately, don’t operate together and respond to particular needs of their individual services rather than to national objectives. All planning, training, tasking and equipping is done separately.

While India’s military planners primarily focus on traditional rival Pakistan, they fail to appreciate that China poses a much bigger threat with a rapidly modernizing military. “We know that the Chinese have significant special operations capabilities that are integrated with their cyber and intelligence apparatus. We have not even started integrating our three services and the division has not been envisaged as one,” Katoch said.

In 2003, when US General Stanley McChrystal took over the Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) in Iraq, he realized that the National Security Agency (NSA) was barely 500 meters away from his JSOC teams, but they never worked together. In his book Team of Teams he details how they created joint teams to start inflicting heavy losses on Iraqi insurgents.

“The future of warfare has changed and we will need more special forces for sub-conventional capabilities. Unless we look at a holistic structure, what we are creating is unlikely to be useful, even though it will address some issues of coordinating the three services better,” Katoch said.

Sources in the Ministry of Defense are also skeptical of the move on other grounds. “The government couldn’t have picked a better man to head the Division than Major General Dhingra,” a senior military official said. “However, he is likely to retire next year. This will create a problem of continuity.”

“They have also decided to set up the headquarters in Agra, while they should have been in Delhi,” the senior official said. “Special Forces work best when they have access to the highest political and military hierarchy. By shifting them to Agra, they will become impotent as a force.”

So far, then, India’s attempt at re-organizing its military capabilities seems to have brought more of the same
 

Suryavanshi

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Opinion uske hote he jaha debate ki gunjaish ho...swords dont write opinions.. pen writes.

And i have watched their SF documentary.. it was funny.
Ayy niggas on moving Pick up truck shooting targets with machine gun.
Looked more like COD revolution & urban combat.

Imagine Chinese niggas on Pick up truck with their crew just rolling down Afghansiatan roads shooting Jehadi on the mountains left and right.
Ayy just brilliant. Why were the Russian retarded enough to not use this technique.
 

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Ayy niggas on moving Pick up truck shooting targets with machine gun.
Looked more like COD revolution & urban combat.

Imagine Chinese niggas on Pick up truck with their crew just rolling down Afghansiatan roads shooting Jehadi on the mountains left and right.
Ayy just brilliant. Why were the Russian retarded enough to not use this technique.
Its Funny.. we get to hear about tactics from those who invented human wave as a tactic.
 
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