Indian Special Forces (archived)

[abingdonboy]

Must be new. The 301s were not a true dedicated SOF aviation asset. They must be part of the transition to SOD

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing

301 and 302 soaring gideons have been dedicated SF air assets for over a decade now.

 

[Shaitan]

The thing about the IA is they are just mind blowingly incompetent at standardisation. so there are now 4 different helmets in use (model 1974, Patka, those ancient ones with camo netting and the new ACHs) and easily 7-8 different types of plate carriers in service excluding at least 2-3 different types of webbing/tactical vests.


Even when they induct a new helmet like the ACH you see some with the old leaf print camo cover (for no justifiable reason), some with the standard IA pattern and then some others still with the woodland MARPAT pattern. And then some units don’t even have any camo covers for their ACHs.


$20bn/year spent to look less regimented and disciplined than ISIS!

Even look at this picture, how many different types of camo do you see? Why?? It just blows my mind. We're going to see even more of a mess soon with the small arms.

 

[abingdonboy]

Even look at this picture, how many different types of camo do you see? Why?? It just blows my mind. We're going to see even more of a mess soon with the small arms.

2 different types of helmet (model 1974 and ACH) and even then one of the types (ACH) only sees a few with the rails. And 3 different types of plate carrier.

Any picture you can find of the army in any operational area it’s always the same story. Utterly indefensible at this point and beyond embarrassing.

 

[Shaitan]

2 different types of helmet (model 1974 and ACH) and even then one of the types (ACH) only sees a few with the rails. And 3 different types of plate carrier.

Any picture you can find of the army in any operational area it’s always the same story. Utterly indefensible at this point and beyond embarrassing.

They're throwing these, "upgrades", without much though, my opinion. It's pretty sad, because those are the riskiest areas for these soldiers, if basic clothing, standardization are missing what else is wrong in the system? What is wrong with the top management? You literally can walk by and not see something, right?

We're going to see tavors, sigs, aks, ak203, insas variants, god knows what else out there as well.

 

[abingdonboy]

They're throwing these, "upgrades", without much though, my opinion. It's pretty sad, because those are the riskiest areas for these soldiers, if basic clothing, standardization are missing what else is wrong in the system? What is wrong with the top management? You literally can walk by and not see something, right?

We're going to see tavors, sigs, aks, ak203, insas variants, god knows what else out there as well.

It’s entirely a failure of leadership. There’s no central plan, no outlined vision so that’s why local units end up buying whatever they can wherever they can with no interest in conforming to any standard and hence this mess.

I’m not particularly worried that it will be a similar story with weapons as they are issued to units based on role so units with the sameness role will get the same weapons. BUT I am appalled by the utter lack of vision in these procurements. After so many years of neglecting small arms purchases it seems the IA is just buying whatever they can get their hands on- 203, SIG 716, CAR 816 without any rhyme or reason. The sheer overlap and duplication of efforts is absurd. Buy a single new rifle and move on. Now there’s going to be a circus just like with the rest of the Indian military.

There is definitely something very sick with the Indian military procurement system where these circuses keep being created- attack helos Apache and LCH, fighter jets- Rafale and MMRCA 2.0? Submarines- P75 and P75I etc etc. Ignoring the mostly basic principle of economics (economies of scale and harmonisation) in every case and electing for a more expensive and counter productive approach.

Time to think big. Create a single requirement for the total need and the fill it from a single source.

 

[Shaitan]

Like the times of the Mauryas to the Mughals - infantry remains expendable.

 

[rkhanna]

What's possibility of this being true ??


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301 and 302 soaring gideons have been dedicated SF air assets for over a decade now.

Nah bro. That is a misconception. It just so happened that geographic deployment for both made them operate alongside SOF more often. The 10th and 4 para for example have zero rotary support from them in the desert.

Further a dedicated SOF rotary unit has a completely different selection and training regime. They are more than "support".

I am only hoping that if they are being converted to a SOF unit. Training sop and tech follow. Rather than just a badge to stitch onto the uniform

 

[abingdonboy]

Nah bro. That is a misconception. It just so happened that geographic deployment for both made them operate alongside SOF more often. The 10th and 4 para for example have zero rotary support from them in the desert.

Further a dedicated SOF rotary unit has a completely different selection and training regime. They are more than "support".

I am only hoping that if they are being converted to a SOF unit. Training sop and tech follow. Rather than just a badge to stitch onto the uniform

As far as I know 202 and 301 do operate detachments where SFs are specifically attached to them/co-located so as to be used for direct action missions. Not quite the same as a dedicated SOAR type unit granted.

Indeed India is a long way away from having anything like a SOAR, that does require much much more both from
The man and the machine. Both would need to be specialised and it doesn’t seem like that’s happening anytime soon. Let’s see how SOD evolves.

 

[rkhanna]

As far as I know 202 and 301 do operate detachments where SFs are specifically attached to them/co-located so as to be used for direct action missions. Not quite the same as a dedicated SOAR type unit granted.

Indeed India is a long way away from having anything like a SOAR, that does require much much more both from
The man and the machine. Both would need to be specialised and it doesn’t seem like that’s happening anytime soon. Let’s see how SOD evolves.

Yup.

Also note that given:
1) how heavily armed our neighbours are in terms of SAM and Manpad density an SOAR type capability is critical for any offensive SOF missions
2) any POK / Paki target we hit will have a high levels of opfor again SOAR type capability will help dominate the battle field
3) terrain of the mountains and the jungles of the north east and our huge coastline again shows the importance of a dedicated unit that can carry out missions in all environments , in darkness, in heavy radar coverage - networked to live ISR etc etc

In the book relentless strike there is a while chapter dedicated to the raising of the 160. They lost over a dozen airframes and number of pilots killed in training . Shows a measure of how different and demanding the training from conventional help pilots is

(Keep in mind our IA helo pilots are some of the most badasses on the planet )

 

[rkhanna]

For those who are interested. One of my fav SOF units.

GROM

<documentary video in the link>

https://thenewsrep.com/118208/grom-an-exclusive-look-into-polands-premier-counter-terrorism-unit/

"Since the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 the GROM have been deployed alongside US Special Operations Forces in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere. During this time, the GROM developed a close working relationship with the US Navy SEALs, and have a well-earned reputation of being one of the fiercest and most competent Special Operations units on the planet."

 

[samsaptaka]

NSG may use private commercial planes for anti-hijacking drill

The ministry will soon provide a chopper to the NSG to be used in case of exigencies. Though the NSG had two choppers, one had a crash landing some time ago, while the other was non-functional.

"The NSG urgently needs a helicopter. The chopper may be given from the existing fleet of the Border Security Force or from the Indian Air Force. We are working on it," the official said.

Country's premier anti hijack / anti terror squad has to beg for choppers ! Utter lack of seriousness by Home ministry babus. Heads should roll.

 

[Deathstar]

Country's premier anti hijack / anti terror squad has to beg for choppers ! Utter lack of seriousness by Home ministry babus. Heads should roll.

I wonder what happened to VVIP choppers muddied in scam?
HAL can quickly give them LUH or LCH or they cn use Army aviations helis

 

[abingdonboy]

Country's premier anti hijack / anti terror squad has to beg for choppers ! Utter lack of seriousness by Home ministry babus. Heads should roll.

It’s true. This should be the next big upgrade for NSG especially now they have set up the hubs. Each hub should 1-2 medium lift helicopters (of the size of MI17) and 2-3 ALHs and perhaps even 1 LUH that can be used as a sniper platform.

This would utterly transform the hub model, NSG response teams could be anywhere inside their AOR within minutes.

I wonder what happened to VVIP choppers muddied in scam?
HAL can quickly give them LUH or LCH or they cn use Army aviations helis

What do you mean? 3 AW101s we’re delviered and mothballed at Palam. The remaining 9 were never delivered and have gone to other customers now.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Dont make over ambitious comparisons and raise your bp.

Deep inside we all know our fetish is not gonna be a reality anytime soon regarding the toys.

Main objective right now should be to counter enemy sf with minimum or no casualty which is happening right now.

Enemy SF is trying to carry out ops on loc on a daily basis and are getting slaughtered.

Lets focus on that please... We wont be comparable to US in the next 5 years also... Lets not waste our time and posts doing that.

 

[ArgonPrime]

Dont make over ambitious comparisons and raise your bp.

Deep inside we all know our fetish is not gonna be a reality anytime soon regarding the toys.

Main objective right now should be to counter enemy sf with minimum or no casualty which is happening right now.

Enemy SF is trying to carry out ops on loc on a daily basis and are getting slaughtered.

Lets focus on that please... We wont be comparable to US in the next 5 years also... Lets not waste our time and posts doing that.

Can you share some details on the bold part??

 

[Anikastha]

Can you share some details on the bold part??

he is talking about bat attacks on our jawans....

 

[ArgonPrime]

he is talking about bat attacks on our jawans....

I see.So how many got halaled so far, what's the latest tally??

 

[Anikastha]

I see.So many got halaled so far, what's the latest tally??

we lost the count.....
00000000000000000000
00000000000000000000

 

[ArgonPrime]

we lost the count.....
00000000000000000000
00000000000000000000

Haha.
.....................

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

I see.So how many got halaled so far, what's the latest tally??

rumours i heard 16 ssg in a single night.

cannot verify..i say again i cannot verify or prove anything.