Indian Special Forces (archived)

[ALBY]

In all party meeting, Congress + left said to BJP government to save 200 passengers.

You guys are derailing the entire thread into a thread of congress versus bjp thread where as the whole point of the thread is to discuss about the failures made by BJP especially kargil and kandahar issues during their rule.

 

[KS]

Karthik pls dont start lecturing on the shivraj patil..i admit that he was a useless chap.But how could you miss 1000s of intruders?
I am glad to see you guys are still defending the failure to check the influx of kargil infiltrators.even according to pakistani politicians they lost 3000 pakistani regular soldiers (excluding mujahids).And every one is proud of winning the war which itself was avoidable if took actions at the very first moments.

Mate, it was the common practise of both the Indian and the Pak Army to retreat to lower grounds during winter leaving the border s almost unmanned and it has been so since the last 50 years.

Couple that with the tremendous warmth in the relations that was there post the Lahore journey and even the most pessimistic of the Indian thinkers would not have thought about that.

Cut them some slack,

 

[The Messiah]

They were more than you!

It is futile to discuss if you cannot show with any link of what was the feeling of India at that time.

And you want to compare Israel with India!

How do you know ? Do you think i was only person who wanted the hijackers shot dead in amritsar itself.

I am not comparing israel with India.

 

[Galaxy]

You guys are derailing the entire thread into a thread of congress versus bjp thread where as the whole point of the thread is to discuss about the failures made by BJP especially kargil and kandahar issues during their rule.

You need to read, understand the context before posting.

 

[The Messiah]

This thread should be closed now as all facts has been posted. There was no other option for NDA Government. They did what Parliament, Other parties, 175 Families wanted. Even they tried to stop plane in Amritsar but Plane flew in no time. They asked to Pakistan, They also rejected. So there was no other option.

So they couldn't do anything. ie they were inept

 

[KS]

It was responsibility of govt to make sure plane didn't take from amritsar, was it or was it not ? why weren't there arrangements ? jaswants pleading is irrelevant because he didn't make sure there were arrangements.

Allright answer honestly, if same would have happened under congress govt do you think people defending it would be actually defending it ?

1965 , Op.Gibralter occurred during Congress...how many people blame them ?

its not blindly Congress vs BJP..

Even if Congress had sent the 3 terrorists to save 172 Indians I honestly would not have minded it.

 

[The Messiah]

You need to read, understand the context before posting.

Context is that congress is inept and so is bjp.

 

[The Messiah]

1965 , Op.Gibralter occurred during Congress...how many people blame them ?

its not blindly Congress vs BJP..

Even if Congress had sent the 3 terrorists to save 172 Indians I honestly would not have minded it.

I blame them.

 

[KS]

How do you know ? Do you think i was only person who wanted the hijackers shot dead in amritsar itself.

I am not comparing israel with India.

If only real life situations were like MW III where you take a gun and immediately bang bang..

I blame them.

Then you are not grounded in reality.

 

[ALBY]

Mate, it was the common practise of both the Indian and the Pak Army to retreat to lower grounds during winter leaving the border s almost unmanned and it has been so since the last 50 years.

Couple that with the tremendous warmth in the relations that was there post the Lahore journey and even the most pessimistic of the Indian thinkers would not have thought about that.

Cut them some slack,

Didn,t that mean a failure?a failure is always a failure what ever be the reasons.And how come they put trust in nation which had proved each and every possible time that they are not at all trust worthy?

 

[KS]

Okay Messiah tell me, what would you have done in Kandahar...?

I dont want a "I wll take a gun and shoot those bhe**** out." answer. A logical answer.

 

[The Messiah]

Okay Messiah tell me, what would you have done in Kandahar...?

I dont want a "I wll take a gun and shoot those bhe**** out." answer. A logical answer.

Go back and read the thread again.

No where have i said we could have done anything in kandahar. whole point is that plane should not have been allowed to leave amritsar.

 

[Bangalorean]

It was responsibility of govt to make sure plane didn't take from amritsar, was it or was it not ? why weren't there arrangements ? jaswants pleading is irrelevant because he didn't make sure there were arrangements.

Allright answer honestly, if same would have happened under congress govt do you think people defending it would be actually defending it ?

Technically yes, but Jaswant did try his best, under hideous pressure. He certainly should not be accused of "vote bank compulsions". And anyway, India has dozens of small airports. Let us be realistic here, and cut Jaswant Singh some slack.

In this case, the Congress and the Left deserve criticism for not stepping aside and letting the government carry on with its job. For electoral gain, that Brinda Karat literally organized the families to protest against the government. The opposition gained maximum mileage out of this incident.

Your second question - yes, I agree that they would not have spared congress. But then, what's life without Congress-BJP fights?

 

[Galaxy]

So they couldn't do anything. ie they were inept

Government tried their level best from Amritsar to Lahore but it was neither feasible nor worked. Later on In pressure of Congress, left parties and under tremendous pressure of 175 families after 2-3 days of negotiation. They saved 200 odd passengers.

I would have done the same in that scenario. 200 passengers were Indian and that was related with country too.

 

[KS]

Didn,t that mean a failure?a failure is always a failure what ever be the reasons.And how come they put trust in nation which had proved each and every possible time that they are not at all trust worthy?

Lahore peace talks and the extreme warmth in the relations that time.

Mistake is a mistake..but it does not end there...You also have to look at the context...I dont know how to explain ...but the differnce between the two is expressed in two Tamil words.....Thavaru (an unintentional mistake) and Thappu (an intentional/incompetent one)

 

[The Messiah]

If only real life situations were like MW III where you take a gun and immediately bang bang..

Then you are not grounded in reality.

Why keep special ops then ? might aswell shut whole thing down and keep only regular soldiers.

since we are scared of doing anything.

 

[KS]

Go back and read the thread again.

No where have i said we could have done anything in kandahar. whole point is that plane should not have been allowed to leave amritsar.

That's because they had just taken power (hardly 4 or 5 months) and protocols for such emergencies were not in place. Who should have developed it? they or the govt that were ruling the country for the past 50 years ?

Why keep special ops then ? might aswell shut whole thing down and keep only regular soldiers.

since we are scared of doing anything.

Special ops need protocols, need equipments, need scenario specific training ..everything which we lacked then..

 

[The Messiah]

Technically yes, but Jaswant did try his best, under hideous pressure. He certainly should not be accused of "vote bank compulsions". And anyway, India has dozens of small airports. Let us be realistic here, and cut Jaswant Singh some slack.

In this case, the Congress and the Left deserve criticism for not stepping aside and letting the government carry on with its job. For electoral gain, that Brinda Karat literally organized the families to protest against the government. The opposition gained maximum mileage out of this incident.

Your second question - yes, I agree that they would not have spared congress. But then, what's life without Congress-BJP fights?

Atleast you are sensible person who doesn't blindly support either camp.

 

[Galaxy]

Why keep special ops then ? might aswell shut whole thing down and keep only regular soldiers.

since we are scared of doing anything.

Why you comparing Apple with Orange ??

What you saying is out of context.

It doesn't matter what we want, we have to see what were the options available ?

You want to say we should have allowed 200 people die by those terrorist for the sake of few terrorist ? If that is the case, That is your personal opinion and not everyone will agree with you. Few people will agree with you and few not. India is not Russia or Israel.

This question has no answer. It's very subjective issue.

 

[ALBY]

Okay Messiah tell me, what would you have done in Kandahar...?

I dont want a "I wll take a gun and shoot those bhe**** out." answer. A logical answer.

any police men in amritsar could have atleast fired a shot to the tyres using the victorian era .303s.
there are many army units in amritsar and rest of punjab any one could have shot the planes tyres so that atleast it could not be flown through run way.And 5 tangos with 9mm berettas are not gonna to massacre 200 people in a split second