Indian Special Forces (archived)

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abingdonboy

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UUPDATE about PM's motorcade,


SPG have inducted an undisclosed number of 2017 Range Rover Sentinals to transport the Prime Minister, the vehicle will, when required, take over the roles of the BMW 7 Series high security in the NCR and will also be used to transport the PM in his visits across the country, it has already been seen with the PM's motorcade in Mizoram:


https://www.**************.org/forums/attachments/1513622761728-png.658/



https://www.**************.org/forums/attachments/1513622772946-png.659/




https://www.**************.org/forums/attachments/1513622784591-png.660/




https://www.**************.org/forums/attachments/1513622799585-png.661/
 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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But don't you think this incident highlights a worrying element- the complete "night blindness" of Indian forces, particuarly of the SFs. The RR officer says the ops should've been conducted in the day light, surely this gives an equal advantadge to the terrorists?

Western SFs almost exclusively operate at night, during 2003 Iraq investigations top tier NATO SF teams would go "hunting" conducting dozens of raids in the darkness only and would rest during the day. We've seen many times that security forces in J&K call off operations during the night time this gives the enemy time to slip away and it's concerning that Indian SFs aren't getting up to speed in night time CQB, this should be the ideal time to carry out ops.
The Army normally did not do room to room search because it involves a greater risk to own troops.

The Army believes in convincing them for a surrender.If it doesnt happen there are two options.One is to take them out.If thats not possible and its getting dark then comes the option of IED or a RL.

The reason being that RR units are night blind.You can still see in many post op pics the RR jawans carrying generators or torches.

Coming to this op the Commander at higher ups believed that room intervention was the best option when it was not.

Because of some reason he wanted to get it over quick.I can only think of over confidence on own SF abilities as the option.

Night op is very tricky option as the support troops would have still been night blind.

We try to keep it simple so everyone comes back home specially when we are not the best equipped in the world.
 

mayfair

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I am surprised that despite years of facing these issues, why have the CI troops not been equipped with NV devices. Is it the cost, or just apathy?
 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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Tank lo

Fightet jets lo

Ships lo

Soldiers toh marte hi hein!


This attitude.


Otherwise almost 50 billions budget and some of our troops are as well equipped as fucking ISIS.

In the year 2009 Major Mohit Sharma and many others got matyred we didnt have blood clot bandage.

The same year Gen VK singh had ordered golf carts for the Army.
 

aditya g

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@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @abingdonboy

The building was simply too large to be brought down, not in technical terms, but imagine the sight of Army bringing down a high profile multi-storey building for "just" 2 terrorists.

The building did not support ingress from chopper. And even if it did - how many dozens of operators will you bring in to contain the situation? Comparison with Chabad house is not appropriate as the situation was contained to just a couple of rooms in one floor there.

I also disagree that night time operations were an option. The SF simply does not have optics in that quantity and quality. Why thats the case is a different matter - in my view though with the likes of Tonbo imaging based out of India, our SFs should have the best the world has to offer - period.

It was my view then and even now, that the senior general officer responsible for the area should accepted the complexity of the situation and called in the NSG. Para SF is also trained for CQB but my gut feeling is that they probably train for smaller house sized interventions, unlike NSG who has experience of intervening in large complexes right from Golden Temple to Akshardham to Taj & Oberoi to Pathankot. Para SF never say no to an operation so it should have been a decision at a higher level.

Recently when JeM attacked District Police Lines Pulwama, the NSG was indeed brought in.

https://idsa.in/idsanews/army-respects-human-rights:-sacrifice-of-soldiers-in-pampore-encounter

Col. Vivek Chaddha

February 22, 2016

On February 20, 2016, a Central Reserve Police Force convoy was ambushed at Pampore, just a few kilometres away from the heart of Srinagar town. The terrorists, after achieving initial success, moved into the Entrepreneurship Development Institute(EDI), in the near vicinity of the ambush site. At that time, there were a number of employees and students in the building. Thereafter began a prolonged operation that has continued since over the weekend, leading to the loss of invaluable lives of soldiers.

Amongst those martyred in the encounter are three paratroopers who belong to some of the finest special forces battalions of the Indian Army. It would seem an anomaly at first to hear of such a high casualty figure, especially since the terrorists had sought refuge in a building and had no where to escape thereafter. However, a more deliberate assessment of the situation provides an answer to the harsh reality of everyday operations conducted by the army in these areas.

The presence of civilian population in any operation makes its conduct that much more complex and difficult to handle. The possibility of losing innocent lives in crossfire or worse as a result of people being used as human shields cannot be ruled out under such circumstances.

Second, purely from an operational perspective, it limits the options available to the army to take out terrorists who seek refuge in such buildings. This is especially so when the buildings provide limited avenues of ingress and egress and further do not facilitate a top-down entry from the roof. This was exactly the case with the building in question which has a sloping tin roof and multiple rooms which can be used by terrorists to fire at incoming soldiers. This implies clearing each floor and room physically, more often than not without the knowledge of the exact location of terrorists as also the possibility of presence of civilians.

Third, the easiest solution to neutralising the terrorists is to bring down a building or a house. In this case as well, this could well have been possible. However, over a period of time, the army has deliberately take the precaution of minimising collateral damage during operations, even at the cost of casualty to its troops.

Fourth, the operation was conspicuous by the absence of heavy calibre weapons. This is unlike similar operations that have been conducted in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iraq, where, artillery, drone based precision missiles and rockets were used with impunity. The Indian Army's refusal to do so is again a part of its counterinsurgency ethos of minimum force and strict rules of engagement.

Fifth, the martyrdom of two officers in the operation yet again reinforces the time honoured tradition of the army, which was witnessed during the Kargil conflict as well. It is the officer class and especially the young officers who lead from the front and lead by example. This is one reason why the army continues to remain the bastion of reliability and faith that the nation reposes in it.​
 

aditya g

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A good decision ... got to hand it to Rajnath Singh. The security of the Parliament complex should also now be handed over to CISF.

Eventually, all state level VIPs should be protected by their own state police forces.

CRPF, ITBP freed from VIP security duty, only CISF and NSG to be used: MHA

KAMALJIT KAUR SANDHU | DELHI | FRIDAY, DECEMBER 8, 2017

In a move that relieves CRPF and ITBP from providing security to VVIPs, MHA reserves the domain for CISF and NSG.

In one of the major decisions taken by the Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA), only Central Indian Security Force (CISF) and National Security Guard (NSG) will provide security for VVIPs.

This effectively means that Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) and Indo Tibetan Border Police (ITBP) will hand over the security baton of close to a hundred protectees to CISF by the end of next year.

The MHA order dated November 23 accessed by India Today reads "The personal protection duties have been reviewed by the Ministry."

It further says "CRPF and ITBP shall be progressively relieved from personal protection work. The task shall be progressively assigned only to Special Security Group (SSG) of CISF which has been specifically created for it." The note further reads that "NSG will continue to provide security to the high risk protectees as decided from time to time." The NSG security is being provided to a limited number of protectees.

The CRPF 75 list of VVIP security included high profile protectees like BJP President Amit Shah, Union Minister Nitin Gadkari, Dineshar Sharma, Lalu Prasad Yadav and Reliance chief Mukesh Ambani. It was roped in to provide VVIP protection in 2014 when NSG had shown its reluctance to deploy black cat commandos for personal protection.

In contrast, ITBP protects only 17 high profile dignitaries. While a dozen are judges of the apex court, others are Jammu & Kashmir politicians such as Chief Minister Mehbooba Mufti, NC patriach Farooq Abdullah, former CM Omar Abdullah and CPI-M MLA Yusuf Tarigami. ITBP commandos have been on VVIP security deployment since early 1990s.

The NSG currently protects 14 high risk category VVIPs after the black cats were no longer responsible for RJD Chief Lalu Prasad Yadav's protection. NSG's Special Rangers Group (SRG), with personnel drawn from Central Armed Police Forces (CAPF) and State Police forces, is deployed for guarding high-risk VIPs/VVIPs.​
 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @abingdonboy

The building was simply too large to be brought down, not in technical terms, but imagine the sight of Army bringing down a high profile multi-storey building for "just" 2 terrorists.

The building did not support ingress from chopper. And even if it did - how many dozens of operators will you bring in to contain the situation? Comparison with Chabad house is not appropriate as the situation was contained to just a couple of rooms in one floor there.

I also disagree that night time operations were an option. The SF simply does not have optics in that quantity and quality. Why thats the case is a different matter - in my view though with the likes of Tonbo imaging based out of India, our SFs should have the best the world has to offer - period.

It was my view then and even now, that the senior general officer responsible for the area should accepted the complexity of the situation and called in the NSG. Para SF is also trained for CQB but my gut feeling is that they probably train for smaller house sized interventions, unlike NSG who has experience of intervening in large complexes right from Golden Temple to Akshardham to Taj & Oberoi to Pathankot. Para SF never say no to an operation so it should have been a decision at a higher level.

Recently when JeM attacked District Police Lines Pulwama, the NSG was indeed brought in.

https://idsa.in/idsanews/army-respects-human-rights:-sacrifice-of-soldiers-in-pampore-encounter

Col. Vivek Chaddha

February 22, 2016

On February 20, 2016, a Central Reserve Police Force convoy was ambushed at Pampore, just a few kilometres away from the heart of Srinagar town. The terrorists, after achieving initial success, moved into the Entrepreneurship Development Institute(EDI), in the near vicinity of the ambush site. At that time, there were a number of employees and students in the building. Thereafter began a prolonged operation that has continued since over the weekend, leading to the loss of invaluable lives of soldiers.

Amongst those martyred in the encounter are three paratroopers who belong to some of the finest special forces battalions of the Indian Army. It would seem an anomaly at first to hear of such a high casualty figure, especially since the terrorists had sought refuge in a building and had no where to escape thereafter. However, a more deliberate assessment of the situation provides an answer to the harsh reality of everyday operations conducted by the army in these areas.

The presence of civilian population in any operation makes its conduct that much more complex and difficult to handle. The possibility of losing innocent lives in crossfire or worse as a result of people being used as human shields cannot be ruled out under such circumstances.

Second, purely from an operational perspective, it limits the options available to the army to take out terrorists who seek refuge in such buildings. This is especially so when the buildings provide limited avenues of ingress and egress and further do not facilitate a top-down entry from the roof. This was exactly the case with the building in question which has a sloping tin roof and multiple rooms which can be used by terrorists to fire at incoming soldiers. This implies clearing each floor and room physically, more often than not without the knowledge of the exact location of terrorists as also the possibility of presence of civilians.

Third, the easiest solution to neutralising the terrorists is to bring down a building or a house. In this case as well, this could well have been possible. However, over a period of time, the army has deliberately take the precaution of minimising collateral damage during operations, even at the cost of casualty to its troops.

Fourth, the operation was conspicuous by the absence of heavy calibre weapons. This is unlike similar operations that have been conducted in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iraq, where, artillery, drone based precision missiles and rockets were used with impunity. The Indian Army's refusal to do so is again a part of its counterinsurgency ethos of minimum force and strict rules of engagement.

Fifth, the martyrdom of two officers in the operation yet again reinforces the time honoured tradition of the army, which was witnessed during the Kargil conflict as well. It is the officer class and especially the young officers who lead from the front and lead by example. This is one reason why the army continues to remain the bastion of reliability and faith that the nation reposes in it.​
I am not talking about taking the building down or a top down approach.

I said that time should have been taken to decide the tactics for the operation.

Controlled explosives and gas should have been used.Tactical shields should have been provided.

NSG is also human at the end of the day with 2 KIA in Mumbai and another 1 or 2 in Akshardham and 1 in Pathankot.


Whoever would have gone there at the end of the day would have no different results coz of a few decisions by higher command.

The best stratergy is to wear them down and they could have not run anywhere coz they were stuck in a building.
 

abingdonboy

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A good decision ... got to hand it to Rajnath Singh. The security of the Parliament complex should also now be handed over to CISF.

Eventually, all state level VIPs should be protected by their own state police forces.

CRPF, ITBP freed from VIP security duty, only CISF and NSG to be used: MHA

KAMALJIT KAUR SANDHU | DELHI | FRIDAY, DECEMBER 8, 2017

In a move that relieves CRPF and ITBP from providing security to VVIPs, MHA reserves the domain for CISF and NSG.

In one of the major decisions taken by the Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA), only Central Indian Security Force (CISF) and National Security Guard (NSG) will provide security for VVIPs.

This effectively means that Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) and Indo Tibetan Border Police (ITBP) will hand over the security baton of close to a hundred protectees to CISF by the end of next year.

The MHA order dated November 23 accessed by India Today reads "The personal protection duties have been reviewed by the Ministry."

It further says "CRPF and ITBP shall be progressively relieved from personal protection work. The task shall be progressively assigned only to Special Security Group (SSG) of CISF which has been specifically created for it." The note further reads that "NSG will continue to provide security to the high risk protectees as decided from time to time." The NSG security is being provided to a limited number of protectees.

The CRPF 75 list of VVIP security included high profile protectees like BJP President Amit Shah, Union Minister Nitin Gadkari, Dineshar Sharma, Lalu Prasad Yadav and Reliance chief Mukesh Ambani. It was roped in to provide VVIP protection in 2014 when NSG had shown its reluctance to deploy black cat commandos for personal protection.

In contrast, ITBP protects only 17 high profile dignitaries. While a dozen are judges of the apex court, others are Jammu & Kashmir politicians such as Chief Minister Mehbooba Mufti, NC patriach Farooq Abdullah, former CM Omar Abdullah and CPI-M MLA Yusuf Tarigami. ITBP commandos have been on VVIP security deployment since early 1990s.

The NSG currently protects 14 high risk category VVIPs after the black cats were no longer responsible for RJD Chief Lalu Prasad Yadav's protection. NSG's Special Rangers Group (SRG), with personnel drawn from Central Armed Police Forces (CAPF) and State Police forces, is deployed for guarding high-risk VIPs/VVIPs.​
Welcome move but NSG should also be removed from this duty, the Govt had promised they would do this for NSG but haven't been able to so, there's absolutely ZERO reason that the NSG need to be deployed for this role, is it because some BJP leaders are themselves protected by the NSG and they like this and aren't willing to give it up?

SRG itself should be entirely wound up/merged with the CISF's SSG so that the NSG can focus on its core responsibility (CT) and its budget isn't wasted on VVIP duties.


Like I've said before, worse equipped than most NATO nations' VBSS units.
 

ezsasa

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I am surprised that despite years of facing these issues, why have the CI troops not been equipped with NV devices. Is it the cost, or just apathy?
NV Devices procurement alone is not the issue, they have to retrain until NV devices becomes their second nature. This takes time.
 

mayfair

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NV Devices procurement alone is not the issue, they have to retrain until NV devices becomes their second nature. This takes time.
They can only train once they have the devices. My question was what has been done to equip the forces with NV devices.
 

rkhanna

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=====================================
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For educational purposes ..

Thats the ACOG site correct? I have no heard from 3 SF guys how they prefer the ACOG to Vanilla Reddot/Aimpoint sites.

The Flexibility of Magnification in the field and not having to shut an eye is a huge plus.
 
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