Indian Special Forces (archived)

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Guys,

Para has the best Communication experts,Engineers,Arty guys,EOD guys and guys who jump with a fucking BMP in a battlefield from a plane.

The Agra based Para brigade is a Army within an Army which is ready 12 month a year ready to be deployed in any country around India.

The desert cdos have everything from modified gypsy with LMGs to Polaris.
A regular deployment to Siachen by Para SF is always there.
They have Divers who dive in the chilling waters of the himalayas.

Operators who speak many languages from Urdu to mandarin.
The best combat martial arts training in the country.

Access to the best weapons and technology from M4 to drones and hand held radars.

Deployments to SFF,SG,NSG,Cateogary A school as instructors,NDA,IMA,CIJWS,HAWS,Commando school,DSSC etc.

So there might be a chance that one unit operates different than another.

So,the exact structure cannot be disclosed.

 

[Adioz]

A SF battalion has 650 personnel.
6-8 0fficers.
1 CO,1 2ic and 1 adjt.
Normally there are 4 companies and additionally there is a Hq company which is basically admin co.

Each company has teams.These teams has no more than 6 members.
The teams can operate on its own or in coordination with other teams.
The team comprises of Nav,Med,Com,demolition,wpn and squad commander.
8 to 10 of such teams come under a Major.

The major may or may not have a Capt or Lt under him or he may have a subeidaar sahab under him.

The SF dont deploy 650 operators or even half of that in any operation.

Besides this every SF has a HIT team which has the best operators who practice room intervention,hostage rescue and other things.

Army SF normally get intel from MI or RAW.

Thanks for the info. Just a few questions:-
What about Quartermaster and Transport?

I have tried to make a organisation chart partly based on what you said, please point out any corrections:-

So you are saying that Para SF never deploy as a battalion-size force no matter the task? So they do not need to have their own Medical officer, Intel officer and signals officer at the Batt. HQ level? So the Batt HQ is only for administrative, not operational purposes? Is this a fact? So, the smallest operational unit in Para SF is a company? If so, what is the composition of Company HQ? It can't be the O.C. all by himself IMHO.
Thanks in advance.

Edit: With just 8-10 teams of 6 operatives each in one company and four companies in total, the size of the battalion comes out to be around 240-280. You say its 650. What are we missing here?

 

[rkhanna]

Besides this every SF has a HIT team which has the best operators who practice room intervention,hostage rescue and other things.

IMO a HIT is the smallest unit in the IA SOF structure (NSG also has the same designation) / Garud call them a flight.

A Hit is a 4-6 Man team. 2 HITs make an Assault Team (NSG its 4 Hits i think)

In an Army SF battalion there is not such thing as segregating the best operators out. (Specially to do CQB and HR - If that was the case then it would diminish the capability of the SOF as a whole)

 

[rkhanna]

^^^ Without going into much detail.

The Answer you seek is not black and white.

A Para Battalion gets deployed to Theater Command - who will then break downs strategic tasks down to Team Level and they get deployed over the theater. More than one battalion can be assigned to Theater. They can be further assigned to a Strike or Holding Corp based on the need. One Battalion will be with the Independent Parachute Brigade for Other Central Command Tasking.

Secondly While standing strength of a Para SF Bn is 650 they are currently understaffed and NO their numbers are not for public consumption.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Thanks for the info. Just a few questions:-
What about Quartermaster and Transport?

I have tried to make a organisation chart partly based on what you said, please point out any corrections:-
View attachment 20293

So you are saying that Para SF never deploy as a battalion-size force no matter the task? So they do not need to have their own Medical officer, Intel officer and signals officer at the Batt. HQ level? So the Batt HQ is only for administrative, not operational purposes? Is this a fact? So, the smallest operational unit in Para SF is a company? If so, what is the composition of Company HQ? It can't be the O.C. all by himself IMHO.
Thanks in advance.

Edit: With just 8-10 teams of 6 operatives each in one company and four companies in total, the size of the battalion comes out to be around 240-280. You say its 650. What are we missing here?

Since there is a lack of officers in the IA most units have a Coy Co take the task of a quater master also.

In your chart the Admin coy should be called the HQ company.

8 to 10 teams are there in a company.What are we missing is the cook,sweeper,barber,canteen guy,admin guys,transport guys,signal guys,Guys who draw maps etc etc etc.

The medical officer is attached to a unit and is not from the unit.He gets changed every few years.There is no Sig offr from the unit.

Ya the SF is never deployed in a battalion size for a operation.Why would hundrerds of operators get deployed..would you call it a SF then?The max number of operators that might get deployed are 100 to 200 that also for a big raid.

Smallest unit is a squad of 6 guys.

The HQ company has barber,admin guys,the unit band,cooks,signal centre,guys who draw maps etc...those kind of people mostly.

I hope i answered all the questions.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

IMO a HIT is the smallest unit in the IA SOF structure (NSG also has the same designation) / Garud call them a flight.

A Hit is a 4-6 Man team. 2 HITs make an Assault Team (NSG its 4 Hits i think)

In an Army SF battalion there is not such thing as segregating the best operators out. (Specially to do CQB and HR - If that was the case then it would diminish the capability of the SOF as a whole)

Well you can check all the documentaries ever made on SF and they have always shown such teams.Sometimes they also wear black overalls which is not allowed to all the 650 operators.

 

[rkhanna]

Thanks for the info. Just a few questions:-
What about Quartermaster and Transport?

I have tried to make a organisation chart partly based on what you said, please point out any corrections:-
View attachment 20293

So you are saying that Para SF never deploy as a battalion-size force no matter the task? So they do not need to have their own Medical officer, Intel officer and signals officer at the Batt. HQ level? So the Batt HQ is only for administrative, not operational purposes? Is this a fact? So, the smallest operational unit in Para SF is a company? If so, what is the composition of Company HQ? It can't be the O.C. all by himself IMHO.
Thanks in advance.

Edit: With just 8-10 teams of 6 operatives each in one company and four companies in total, the size of the battalion comes out to be around 240-280. You say its 650. What are we missing here?

Well you can check all the documentaries ever made on SF and they have always shown such teams.Sometimes they also wear black overalls which is not allowed to all the 650 operators.

A Unit doing Urban MOUT operations may wear black. 10SF regularly wears black. SG wears black. SF HITs/SQUAD will dress up as the task/training asks of them.

But there is no such thing as an elite operator subset that only does CQB.

CQB is a skill set among st many not a sub division specialized Task (unlike NSG). If the best operators are stuck shooting inside rooms who is developing LRRP skills? Language custom skills for FID ? FAC ? Sniper ? tracking ? Intelligence gathering ?etc etc

The sad part is that all the western movies and books and news coverage from GWOT makes them seals units into Direct Action (DA) Shock Troopers assaulting and taking buildings/villages all the time. Fact is that DA does not compromise more than 10-20% of their tasking. The real SOF effort in Astan and Iraq was done by ODAs on horseback.The most powerful weapon a SOF soldier has is his Radio and he is most effective when the enemy does not even know of his presence.

Lastly documentaries are nice but dont forget that every documentary has a TRP perspective for the producer and the armed forces. They only make what sells. If you have a chance sit down and chat with an ex SF soldier who has over a decade of experience under his belt it would be good.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

A Unit doing Urban MOUT operations may wear black. 10SF regularly wears black. SG wears black. SF HITs/SQUAD will dress up as the task/training asks of them.

But there is no such thing as an elite operator subset that only does CQB.

CQB is a skill set among st many not a sub division specialized Task (unlike NSG). If the best operators are stuck shooting inside rooms who is developing LRRP skills? Language custom skills for FID ? FAC ? Sniper ? tracking ? Intelligence gathering ?etc etc

The sad part is that all the western movies and books and news coverage from GWOT makes them seals units into Direct Action (DA) Shock Troopers assaulting and taking buildings/villages all the time. Fact is that DA does not compromise more than 10-20% of their tasking. The real SOF effort in Astan and Iraq was done by ODAs on horseback.The most powerful weapon a SOF soldier has is his Radio and he is most effective when the enemy does not even know of his presence.

Lastly documentaries are nice but dont forget that every documentary has a TRP perspective for the producer and the armed forces. They only make what sells. If you have a chance sit down and chat with an ex SF soldier who has over a decade of experience under his belt it would be good.

Mate,have you intereacted with a SF soldier?

And did he tell you about a 12 man team?Because that sort of thing is wrong firstly and then you suggest me of doing something which i doubt if you have done.

Yoh know what the sad part is?Its that most of the people dont understand how a SF works.

People think SF is a unit with everyone in it carrying Tavor and doing special operations.

I think the next thing which you are going to tell me is that SF men dont drive trucks or dont guard their parameters.

I will again try to explain myself here.I didnt say they have a special unit inside a special unit.

Most sf maintains a team for urban warfare and this team is not a Ghatak Coy but like the Ghatak the men keep changing.

LRP,sniper,int skills are not taught at battalion level.They are taught at SF school.

Most of the language skills and other education is also provided at the School.

I am talking about the battalion level where a operator wakes up and does 5 kms BPET.

If you believe all operators wake up and conduct all the tasks everyday then you are wrong.

Tell me one thing..is it even practical to train 400 operators in cqb everyday..and god forbid if a emergency like the Pathankot happens..who according to you will the CO choose because you say 400 operators should be ready,no?

I believe your source was in field before 26/11.Things have changed since.

 

[rkhanna]

Don't wish to lead to an argument.

The 12 member team (Assault Team) was the original composition. That was my bad as i was typing on the fly and misspoke.

Lastly - you havnt understood a word i wrote. But lets leave it at that. I have no wish to talk about what connection i have to the military forces.

 

[WARREN SS]

The sad part is that all the western movies and books and news coverage from GWOT makes them seals units into Direct Action (DA) Shock Troopers assaulting and taking buildings/villages all the time. Fact is that DA does not compromise more than 10-20% of their tasking. The real SOF effort in Astan and Iraq was done by ODAs on horseback.The most powerful weapon a SOF soldier has is his Radio and he is most effective when the enemy does not even know of his presence.

Yeah This Exactly the case

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Don't wish to lead to an argument.

The 12 member team (Assault Team) was the original composition. That was my bad as i was typing on the fly and misspoke.

Lastly - you havnt understood a word i wrote. But lets leave it at that. I have no wish to talk about what connection i have to the military forces.

I think we both work on different frequencies always. Haha

I think you didnt understand me.


Those who know hindi can watch these documentary and arrive at their own conclusion.


As you can see the Sniper can do their training,cqb guys do theirs,Lrp guys do their own.

For english

http://www.ndtv.com/video/shows/jai-jawan/jai-jawan-with-ranbir-kapoor-214622

The guys wearing black overalls are from 1st Para and not 10th.

 

[aditya g]

I believe a "Hit" or "prahaar" in a SF Bn is their equivalent of Infantry Ghatak Platoon placed under Battalion HQ. I will try to find the reference.

With regards to Assault Team, my understanding is that it is the SF equivalent of a Company or Garud Flight.

See this quote about 3 Para SF. Now they wont place just 12 men under a RR Division will they.

IMO a HIT is the smallest unit in the IA SOF structure (NSG also has the same designation) / Garud call them a flight.

A Hit is a 4-6 Man team. 2 HITs make an Assault Team (NSG its 4 Hits i think)

In an Army SF battalion there is not such thing as segregating the best operators out. (Specially to do CQB and HR - If that was the case then it would diminish the capability of the SOF as a whole)

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

I believe a "Hit" or "prahaar" in a SF Bn is their equivalent of Infantry Ghatak Platoon placed under Battalion HQ. I will try to find the reference.

With regards to Assault Team, my understanding is that it is the SF equivalent of a Company or Garud Flight.

See this quote about 3 Para SF. Now they wont place just 12 men under a RR Division will they.

View attachment 20310

Exactly!!

One team has 6 operators and i know for a fact that the deployment is around a company size.

They keep rotating..The SF units take turns to replace them...3 to 6 months i think.

Victor Force handles south Kashmir.

Here are some pics of such teams in training...

Major Pawan Kumar (RIP)..i think these pics are from the CBS.

 

[rkhanna]

HIT and Prahaar are essentially the same thing. Same word denoting the same function (earlier i said 12 instead of 6 - i was wrong.)

My understanding is that the SF always called it a Prahaar (which filtered down to other Army units such as Ghataks ) and the NSG called their smallest unit a HIT which over time filtered up into the SF

A HIT/Prahaar is the smallest working cohesive unit. In the Army and Airforce (called a Flight) is 6 men in the NSG its 4+1.

Again i could be wrong but here is my understanding:

Each Battalion maintains a ready Hit/Prahaar Unit for an Urban CT operation within or outside the country. - like the CRW concept of the SAS. While on Standby the unit trains (sometimes with NSG) on room intervention and Hostage Rescue. Then when the standby is over the unit rotates out. Another team or HIT takes its place. Its not a permanent staffing. (no best of the best - EVERY SINGLE OPERATOR ROTATES THROUGH THIS STANDBY Formation)

On Victor Force - it is a RR designation and is one of its 5 CI Tasks Forces. Each of these tasks forces has a SOF element, JK SOG Element, Conventional Army Element and CRPF element.


1. Counter Insurgency Force (CIF) V/ VictorForce Anantnag, Pulwama, Shopian, Kulgam and Budgam (Command of 15Corp)
2. Counter Insurgency Force (CIF) K / Kilo Force - Kupwara, Baramulla and Srinagar (Command of 15 Corp)
3. Counter Insurgency Force (CIF) R / Romeo Force - Rajouri and Poonch (Command of 16 Corp)
4. Counter Insurgency Force (CIF) D / Delta Force. - Doda (Command of 16 Corp)
5. Counter Insurgency Force (CIF) U / Uniform Force - (Udhampur and Banihal)

Think the only dedicated RR SOF element is 31 RR Cdo which is staffed exclusively by the Paras

 

[rkhanna]

Exactly!!

One team has 6 operators and i know for a fact that the deployment is around a company size.

They keep rotating..The SF units take turns to replace them...3 to 6 months i think.

Victor Force handles south Kashmir.

Here are some pics of such teams in training...

Major Pawan Kumar (RIP)..i think these pics are from the CBS.

The Second Picture i am not sure but i think it is taken from a Live Op in JK.
The First Picture i know the context of i cant share more other than it is way more than just CQB/HRT Training

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

The Second Picture i am not sure but i think it is taken from a Live Op in JK.
The First Picture i know the context of i cant share more other than it is way more than just CQB/HRT Training

No,i think if it was a live operation the operators would be carrying rucksacks and secondly the wall made of cement brics is not very common in kashmir.

Anyone can be right!

 

[rkhanna]

No,i think if it was a live operation the operators would be carrying rucksacks and secondly the wall made of cement brics is not very common in kashmir.

Anyone can be right!

Sure but not all sf carry ruksacks. And they will remove them while entering a built up area.


For me what gives it away is the patka. Rarely put on by sf unless going into imminent contact.

But anyone's guess. But then again . What are the chances of them posing for a picture before entering a picture. You are probably right

 

[abingdonboy]

Counter Assualt Team (CAT) members of the SPG seen during the PM's visit to Gujarat ( Sept 2017 )

 

[WARREN SS]

woman SPG stands guard as Prime Minister Narendra Modi ready to go for Cabinet Meeting during the Monsoon Session

 

[abingdonboy]

The four offical "rides" of the PM- the TATA Safari, Toyota Land Cruiser, BMW 760Li "Security" and Range Rover HSE.

These vehicles are highley armoured and all custom made to serve the Prime Minister of the world's largest democracy according to the requirements of the Special Protection Group (SPG).

Fleets of all four models are kept in a secure site in Delhi by the SPG and transported wherever the PM is visting across India and the region.