Indian Special Forces (archived)

[abingdonboy]

As far as heli insertion capabilities are concerned, I'm given to think that a particular Army Aviation unit, The Soaring Gideons -(202 HU I think it is) has converted to this task.

I'm well aware of this bro (IIRC there are in fact 2 AAC HUs with the explicity purpose of supporting SF missions) but the fact remains that this is army-specific and accross the board the support infrastructure for SOF units in India is abysmal especially in a tri-service format.

FYI the IN also has dedicated helos to support the MARCOs.

Weren't SF Heli lauched into myanmar for that operation at night? doesn't this recent example negate your theory that our SF don't get to use choppers in their operations..

I never said that Indian SF doesn't or can't conduct helo insertions at night (they can and do reguarly) but their ability to do the most high-risk missions is hampered because of a lack of the top-notch gear Western units enjoy.

 

[abingdonboy]

I don't think both operations are comparable. Myanmar op was against a confirmed militant camps, OBL mansion was not a militant camp. i doubt that any SF knowingly will fly directly into target militant camps.

You're right about that- the tradtional SF approach is to be dropped off far from the target and to haul your a$$ on foot to conduct the assualt. Interestingly it is said that SEALs during the early days of Afghanistan and Iraq were too inexpereinced/lazy and used to be dropped off on top of their target leading to a heavy number of casualites and operational failures, in fact "Operation Red Wings" is an example of this.

It is said that within the US SOF community the SEALs (not tier one DEVGRU) are looked down upon outside of the maritime domain especially by the Rangers because they lack even basic soldiering knowledge/skills and often flounder in the most routine land missions.

The OBL raid is an entirely different matter, that time it made perfect sense to go in "heavy".

 

[WARREN SS]

There are very few FAST helmets in service in India, a paucity of funds means Indian units are still some of the worst equipped SFs around.

I really wish the MoD would stop f*cking about and authorise the tri-service SOCOM with its own dedicated budget and air wing. I guarentee that within 5 years India would have SFs as well equipped as any unit in the West.

Problem is not What they Can get is What they want If NSG can get It So are they I have Seen
ORT Mumbai Police with better NVG mounted Helmets than these

There already have separate Budget

 

[hardip]

Problem is not What they Can get is What they want If NSG can get It So are they I have Seen
ORT Mumbai Police with better NVG mounted Helmets than these

There already have separate Budget

plz give me info..This sniper m sure this is a Isreali weapons.. not Barrett..m107

 

[WARREN SS]

plz give me info..This sniper m sure this is a Isreali weapons.. not Barrett..m107

This Force one Mumbai police Barrett

Mumbai Police Force One Snipers

 

[EliteFoxtrot]

I disagree on the availability aspects of headgear and BPJ of our special forces, our guys have PASGT helmet as well as FAST helmets and Indians dont believe in separate NVG socket on the helmet we prefer strap on attachment on our helmet and i am sure you have seen Patka and ACH with Strap On NVG's in kashmir.

Now we talk about how ill equipped our SF is, i have seen people discussing on their uniform, on their weapon systems, on their gears but why dont they understand they are special forces they get what they want and who you are to decide what they will keep with themselves and what not, than they argue on the casualties of our SF guys and recently after the martyrdom of captain pawan kumar the people were screaming for BPJ's in army i agree BPJ's are necessary now but what kind of BPJ's ?? They dont know what kind of BPJ they just know BPJ army now need NIJ 3A level BPJ, our SF is using dragon skin and israeli level 4 BPJ.. Now let me tell you how captain pawan martyred captain pawan was ready with his team for the intervention while the second team was giving them support fire pawan who had M4A1 carbine with PNVG sight and Surfire tactical flashlight + he has NVG on his head almost all operators have same gears, pawan enter the room but here his bad luck again created problem for him though it was the last problem he suffered, by the time pawan entered the room a militant hiding beside a Almira on the extreme left of the gate fired a burst from his AK and pawan got hit by the bullet on the left side of his underarms pawan had a level 3 BPJ but all those gears and equipment didn’t saved his life, he got hit on the place where there was no protection, the bullet enter from left and leave from right side of his chest.

I hope you get the answer

Source :- https://elitepredators.wordpress.com/2016/07/14/how-we-lost-captain-pawan/

 

[armyofhind]

I disagree on the availability aspects of headgear and BPJ of our special forces, our guys have PASGT helmet as well as FAST helmets and Indians dont believe in separate NVG socket on the helmet we prefer strap on attachment on our helmet and i am sure you have seen Patka and ACH with Strap On NVG's in kashmir.

Now we talk about how ill equipped our SF is, i have seen people discussing on their uniform, on their weapon systems, on their gears but why dont they understand they are special forces they get what they want and who you are to decide what they will keep with themselves and what not, than they argue on the casualties of our SF guys and recently after the martyrdom of captain pawan kumar the people were screaming for BPJ's in army i agree BPJ's are necessary now but what kind of BPJ's ?? They dont know what kind of BPJ they just know BPJ army now need NIJ 3A level BPJ, our SF is using dragon skin and israeli level 4 BPJ.. Now let me tell you how captain pawan martyred captain pawan was ready with his team for the intervention while the second team was giving them support fire pawan who had M4A1 carbine with PNVG sight and Surfire tactical flashlight + he has NVG on his head almost all operators have same gears, pawan enter the room but here his bad luck again created problem for him though it was the last problem he suffered, by the time pawan entered the room a militant hiding beside a Almira on the extreme left of the gate fired a burst from his AK and pawan got hit by the bullet on the left side of his underarms pawan had a level 3 BPJ but all those gears and equipment didn’t saved his life, he got hit on the place where there was no protection, the bullet enter from left and leave from right side of his chest.

I hope you get the answer

Source :- https://elitepredators.wordpress.com/2016/07/14/how-we-lost-captain-pawan/

Para SF really use Dragon Skin? Any source for the same?

 

[EliteFoxtrot]

Yes Para SF, Marcos and NSG use dragon skin..

 

[WARREN SS]

Yes Para SF, Marcos and NSG use dragon skin..

There Many things Unrecorded Like Amount M4 carbines or SIG 550/51 series in India Police Forces of various state using them

Only recorded track is for Mizopolice

 

[Anikastha]

I'm well aware of this bro (IIRC there are in fact 2 AAC HUs with the explicity purpose of supporting SF missions) but the fact remains that this is army-specific and accross the board the support infrastructure for SOF units in India is abysmal especially in a tri-service format.

FYI the IN also has dedicated helos to support the MARCOs.


I never said that Indian SF doesn't or can't conduct helo insertions at night (they can and do reguarly) but their ability to do the most high-risk missions is hampered because of a lack of the top-notch gear Western units enjoy.

I agree wid you...

Sent from my ASUS_Z00LD using Tapatalk

 

[armyofhind]

Yes Para SF, Marcos and NSG use dragon skin..

what's the source?
--------------------------------

 

[rkhanna]

Dragon Skin if i remember correctly was decertified by US Regulation authorities

 

[abingdonboy]

Problem is not What they Can get is What they want If NSG can get It So are they I have Seen
ORT Mumbai Police with better NVG mounted Helmets than these



There already have separate Budget

That's MH's Force one Bro, not Mumbai's QRT.

Ironically the best helmets I have seen used in India were on Patna's SWAT team:

Everything else about their equipment is $hit but their helmets are top notch.

Indians dont believe in separate NVG socket on the helmet we prefer strap on attachment on our helmet and i am sure you have seen Patka and ACH with Strap On NVG's in kashmir.

This has been out of neccesity and not out of choice. Anyone using strap mounted NVGs will chose a helmet mounted NVG any day of the week. Now the SFs (and even regulars) are transitioning over to helmet mounted NVGs.

Now we talk about how ill equipped our SF is, i have seen people discussing on their uniform, on their weapon systems, on their gears but why dont they understand they are special forces they get what they want and who you are to decide what they will keep with themselves and what not, than they argue on the casualties of our SF guys and recently after the martyrdom of captain pawan kumar the people were screaming for BPJ's in army i agree BPJ's are necessary now but what kind of BPJ's ?

Of course not ALL SF/combat loses are due to equipment defiencies no doubt about it but that doesn't mean a few haven't been nor does it mean that Indian SF are as well equipped as they should be. Not only does their equipment lag behind the West's from a protection point of view but this also limits their combat effectivness when compared to the best units in the world.

Leaving out Special Group, the very latest Indian SF equipments are:

MARCOs:

Garuds:

PARA (SF):

Compared to a non-SF unit in the US Army (75th Rangers):

Let's not embrass ourselves by pretending all is well, that is a defeatest attitude that will only hamper India's very best warriors yet further.

There is a LOT of room to do a LOT better.

 

[WARREN SS]

Let's not embrass ourselves by pretending all is well, that is a defeatest attitude that will only hamper India's very best warriors yet further.

There is a LOT of room to do a LOT better.

Well US forces Per Soldier Budget very high compared to IA If We Have To Equip our Soldiers Equal To US We should Atleast have to Spend 100+ Billion $ in real terms it will Only happen in 8-10 years

Also We have Change Whole command and Structure Of Procurement
Private Players Should Directly inter relate with Military Command

 

[WARREN SS]

Problem is not What they Can get is What they want If NSG can get It So are they I have Seen
ORT Mumbai Police with better NVG mounted Helmets than these

Still there 300 commandos that Equal to Pakistan

QRT is also Developing

 

[abingdonboy]

Well US forces Per Soldier Budget very high compared to IA If We Have To Equip our Soldiers Equal To US We should Atleast have to Spend 100+ Billion $ in real terms it will Only happen in 8-10 years

Also We have Change Whole command and Structure Of Procurement
Private Players Should Directly inter relate with Military Command

Exactly, it is a budgetary issue and this is why I advocate both a downsizing in the massively bloated (and still growing) conventional military as well as fast tracking the creation of the tri-service SOCOM with its own dedicate budget and command structure. I've said it before; within 5 years India's SOFs will be on par (equipment wise) with ANY top-tier Western SOF unit if the SOCOM is raised.

 

[armyofhind]

Exactly, it is a budgetary issue and this is why I advocate both a downsizing in the massively bloated (and still growing) conventional military as well as fast tracking the creation of the tri-service SOCOM with its own dedicate budget and command structure. I've said it before; within 5 years India's SOFs will be on par (equipment wise) with ANY top-tier Western SOF unit if the SOCOM is raised.

Downsizing is being evaluated and underway.. hopefully we'll be seeing a more technology intensive and less manpower dependant military in the years to come.
Same goes for SOCOM too. Hope to see it up and running in the next 5 or 6 years.

One thing that we cannot really match up to with western SF is the Uber cool Gucci type stuff. Because the after market parts sector is way big in USA because of a prevalent gun culture than it can ever be here in India.

 

[sydsnyper]

Nice.... they couldn't even screw on the muzzle brake right.

This Force one Mumbai police Barrett

Mumbai Police Force One Snipers

 

[abingdonboy]

PARA (SF) at a "know your army" event organised by South Western Army Command (SWAC) :

 

[abingdonboy]

Nice.... they couldn't even screw on the muzzle brake right.

To be fair, these weapons were literally just out of the box and being displayed for the media in a desperate response to 26/11. They weren't being used in such a condition.