Indian Special Forces (archived)

[Anikastha]

Even though I am not marked in the post, I would like to try to answer the question:

It took almost 12 hrs because as per reports they were planning to catch them alive. We have to remember SWAT is a police team, not army. Army shoots to kill, police mainly shoot to save lives.

Money spent on specialist teams is inconsequential, the number of opportunities they get to practice their training is what makes them more effective in future. I am sure they will review their procedures and correct themselves.

As far as MARCOS are concerned, as on 26/11 they were not trained ana equipped for urban COIN operations, this has been confirmed by current navy chief. He also confirmed that the Marcos now have been trained in urban COIN operations.

There is no denial that there have been some lapses, like they could have geared up while on the bus. They had to use a J&K police van to reach the place. Let's just hope they are corrected in the future.

Thank you sir for clarification..
I heard Indian Army is looking for tavor in place of insas ..is it true...whats is wrong with insas. During Godavari pushkar I have met a grey hound commando ( anti-naxal) ..he had INSAS rifle (Black colour , bit different from orange piece).He says it is upto the mark but needs some modifications like reduce in weight, length reduced , less recoil etc.

 

[ezsasa]

Thank you sir for clarification..
I heard Indian Army is looking for tavor in place of insas ..is it true...whats is wrong with insas. During Godavari pushkar I have met a grey hound commando ( anti-naxal) ..he had INSAS rifle (Black colour , bit different from orange piece).He says it is upto the mark but needs some modifications like reduce in weight, length reduced , less recoil etc.

Appreciated if you do not call me "Sir".

i do not have any inside info. i just connect the dots, Based on what is available in public domain .

Tavor can never be replacement to INSAS in the next decade. In my limited opinion INSAS should have never been brought into domestic environment in such large numbers i.e police, It is a battle rifle built for the Army as per their requirements and should have been used as such. We have our own financial constraints, let's leave it at that. .We can only hope that Excalibur will resolve the issues with INSAS. MSMC is ideal weapon for police, simply because i don't see a scenario where a policeman having to shoot 500 mts range in general.

 

[lachit borphookon]

This is what is going to happen, come 2020 army would still be using INSAS rifles ,ww2era sterling carbines, no proper bpj, no proper helmet, no optics for rifles.....

 

[abingdonboy]

when did this dril took place..even THE HINDU didn't even reported..This place looks like kurupam house..

This was in December 2014........

 

[abingdonboy]

@ALBY @Kunal Biswas @abingdonboy @cobra commando
Good evening sir,
I have a small doubt...
Recently we had terror attack on punjab..It took many hours to hunt those three terrorists ..Why??
Government is spending crores and crores of rupees on training and equipment for our forces.Even though it takes nearly 2+ hours for our men to complete the task..Even during 26/11 MARCOS (navy special forces) could have raided taj hotel and nariman house with maharashtra police as back up instead waiting for NSG from manesar...This question stuck my mind this morning..
Forgive me if this question looks silly
Regards

The Punjab police refused to allow the Army or NSG to conduct operations and wanted to handle the situation themselves and were attempting to take one of the terrorists alive like with Kasab in 26/11 hence the long operation.

+ As for 26/11, there was only 1 MARCOs team deployed (of 8 operators), it was unimaginable they could have made a huge impact in that operation.

 

[SPIEZ]

In some of the pics posted, the troops do not even have body armor. But I can see them with the most modern assault rifles. Big question, why not invest more troop safety equipment rather than in sophisticated rifles? Traditional rifles that are both accurate and reliable (like the AK platform) could be a sound option, but willing to hear comments from the experts.

 

[abingdonboy]

In some of the pics posted, the troops do not even have body armor. But I can see them with the most modern assault rifles. Big question, why not invest more troop safety equipment rather than in sophisticated rifles? Traditional rifles that are both accurate and reliable (like the AK platform) could be a sound option, but willing to hear comments from the experts.

Are you talking about the Punjab Police's SWAT team?

 

[lachit borphookon]

In some of the pics posted, the troops do not even have body armor. But I can see them with the most modern assault rifles. Big question, why not invest more troop safety equipment rather than in sophisticated rifles? Traditional rifles that are both accurate and reliable (like the AK platform) could be a sound option, but willing to hear comments from the experts.

Did you notice the variety of weapons the swat team had , some had SIG's some had aks and some had mp5s .This is not ideal a unit must have a common assault rifle otherwise there are logistic issues

 

[SPIEZ]

Are you talking about the Punjab Police's SWAT team?

No not the Punjab swats alone, most other special forces as well

 

[ALBY]

SWATs are urban C.T operators who number in few ,who are designed to execute crack operations which at the most last only very few hours.So unlike regular infantry,the nightmare of logistics don't arise.Concerning the urban ops both AKs and Sigs are good,where AK has more stopping power,suitable for urbaan ops.But if hostage situation arises nothing is better than a MP-5 or MP7

 

[Immanuel]

P-90s are also good weapons, good caliber, plenty of rounds, Berretta MX-4 storm is better than MP-5. Actually even the X-95 is great for such uses.

 

[ALBY]

Beretta MX-4s bought by BSF is already rusting in gun cases,thanks to the reliability issues...P90s are more suited due to the 5.56 round or shipkas used by SFF,MP9,PP2000,Vitya -SN too are proven ones.

 

[lachit borphookon]

Mp5s and other 9mm carbines are only good for stealthy ops where one needs to use suppressors as far as cqb is concerned 5.56mm assault rifle gets the job done. But that's just my opinion

 

[Immanuel]

Beretta MX-4s bought by BSF is already rusting in gun cases,thanks to the reliability issues...P90s are more suited due to the 5.56 round or shipkas used by SFF,MP9,PP2000,Vitya -SN too are proven ones.

No rust issues with MX-4s, there were quality issues with initial deliveries, no issues at the moment

 

[ghost]

Para SF

SFF

 

[ALBY]

I love those sexxxy Bulgarian Krinkovs ..<3 <3 <3
Thanks Ghost buddy for posting the pics.

 

[ALBY]

Beryl M7.62,Beryl chambered to fire M43 round..Govt. should have imported the beryl variant instead of Bulgarian AKs.

 

[blueblood]

@ALBY @abingdonboy @ghost @boris @Immanuel and others...

Had drinks with an old college friend last night. Met him after 5 years. He is serving in EME and just finished his field tour in Laddakh of 2 and half years (got extended due to some difficulties). Spent a total of 6 months at 14,000 ft. Few interesting tidbits I gathered from him.

• He recently attempted for PTS in Agra and got injured in the selection process. According to him, clearing for Para airbourne is more difficult than clearing for Para SF, owing to the lack of numbers in the former and easier written examinations in case of latter.

• He also met a Vikas unit there and was friends with some of them. According to him, they are highly trained but at the same time very indisciplined force. He thinks the structure of the unit i.e. high levels of anonymity and individuality and also political nature of the unit is responsible for this kind of behavior. But those guys are tough as rocks and huge mountains ain't got nothing on them.

• He too ranks Para SF above Vikas only because of the inherent discipline of the Indian army.

• His INSAS 1B1(?) is serving him well and he had nothing more to add.

• Something I didn't know but apparently that Laddakh scouts are rotated and have been rotating for quite some time which is contrary to what desi uselss media has been saying.

Gathered a few more things but I rather not say those on a public forum. None of them are classified but it does not paint a rosy picture of the current status of Indian army.

 

[SafedSagar]

Which gun is this?

.................................................

 

[Immanuel]

Take this info about Vikas being indiscipline with a pinch of salt. They have different operational duties. Tier-1 forces often give the impression of being undisciplined but that's because they are cold ass calculated killers often required to work in pairs or just alone. They are meant for black-ops deep behind enemy lines and not necessarily during war.