Indian Special Forces (archived)
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Immanuel
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NSG is an anti terror org. with main role of anti terror ops, Terrorist don't use body armor, they are mostly suicidal pigs who intend to kill as many as possible, .45 is knock em dead round and KRISS's design has already been proven to be the most balance design for any submachine gun. 5.7 P-90 is ideal for VIP security ops and other State police swat units.
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Terrorist adapts according to environment and their mission profile, Its best to have a weapon which suits most environment ..
As in PARA SF, Its Bullpup which proves its worth both in CQB and Long ranges, When we talk about NSG i think its best they go for MSMC or X95 ..
5.56x45mm or Indian 5.56X30mm suits in both close and medium ranges targets, Let it be Armored or non Armored ..
As in PARA SF, Its Bullpup which proves its worth both in CQB and Long ranges, When we talk about NSG i think its best they go for MSMC or X95 ..
5.56x45mm or Indian 5.56X30mm suits in both close and medium ranges targets, Let it be Armored or non Armored ..
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abingdonboy
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I would certainly like to see the NSG transition to something above the 9mm now as their standard calibre round, yes they have 1-2 men in each 6-8 man "HIT" equipped with the 5.56mm SIG-552 AR but the 9mm MP5 is the standard SMG and 85-90% of the NSG will be equipped with the MP-5. The main failings of the 9mm? Range and penetration/stopping power. Until now the NSG haven't gone up against baddies in BPJs but this should always be at the back of their minds, they should get ahead of the game before they invite a bloodbath....
I am unsure as to why the NSG haven't gone for X-95s when the CPRF and BSF have gone for 10,000+ each and the NSG would barely need 2-3,000. Keep the MP-5s for the SRG and for when undertaking hostage rescue and intervention on a plane.
Immanuel
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I actually disagree, the reason why the new multi cal rifle is needed is because IA obviously believes in a completly different view, They want a heavy hitting 7.62 or 6.8mm for more knock out power and the 5.56 will mostly be used for law enforecement. Most of the time, they get into encounters the chances of surrender is very low and the militants need quick dispatching in such a case, the 5.56 is in adequate no matter that the ofb is 5.56 is a better round than the NATO version.
Also NSG with 9mm is too light, they can certainly adapt the KRISS in the SF while NSG can move onto X-95 style, don't know why they haven't done it yet.
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The reason multi-cal rifle is needed is to reduce logistics of different rifles being used in a single unit, 5.56mm evolution was not realized when RFI was issued for different caliber Rifle, In that case we are running after an obsolete Idea of Multical rifle ..
The U.S. Army recently conducted one of the most extensive studies into small arms performance in CQB (Close Quarters Battle) and published their findings. This study was conducted to answer concerns that some warriors were expressing in After Action Reports (AAR) post battle about the effectiveness of the 5.56mm NATO cartridge.
The test team not only tested M193, M995 (AP) and M855 "Green Tip", but they also tested a number of other loads to see if there were any improvements made to the combat effectiveness of the 5.56mm round by civilian companies.
'In the end, "footpounds of energy" is misleading, "stopping power" is a myth, and the "oneshot drop" is a rare possibility dependent more on the statistics of hit placement than weapon and ammunition selection. Effectiveness ultimately equates to the potential of the weapons system to eliminate its target as a militarily relevant threat."
In the end the U.S. Army found that no commercially available alternatives in 5.56mm ammunition performed measurably better than existing issued ammo (M855, M193, M995). This study was based on CQB effectiveness, and from the ranges of 0-50 meters all ammo tested performed similarly and none stood out as being clearly superior.
Also worth mention is that during this testing the U.S. Army also tested the M80 7.62x51mm round fired from an M14 to compare it to the performance of the 5.56mm in CQB conditions. It performed in the same band of performance as the 5.56mm ammo tested. They concluded that in a CQB situation the 7.62x51mm round offered no measurable performance benefit over the 5.56mm round.
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besides these, I have personally seen wounds and dead bodies of terrorists by OFB 5.55mm, The 7.62m43 or even 7.62NATO would have made no difference except larger size wounds ..
The U.S. Army recently conducted one of the most extensive studies into small arms performance in CQB (Close Quarters Battle) and published their findings. This study was conducted to answer concerns that some warriors were expressing in After Action Reports (AAR) post battle about the effectiveness of the 5.56mm NATO cartridge.
The test team not only tested M193, M995 (AP) and M855 "Green Tip", but they also tested a number of other loads to see if there were any improvements made to the combat effectiveness of the 5.56mm round by civilian companies.
'In the end, "footpounds of energy" is misleading, "stopping power" is a myth, and the "oneshot drop" is a rare possibility dependent more on the statistics of hit placement than weapon and ammunition selection. Effectiveness ultimately equates to the potential of the weapons system to eliminate its target as a militarily relevant threat."
In the end the U.S. Army found that no commercially available alternatives in 5.56mm ammunition performed measurably better than existing issued ammo (M855, M193, M995). This study was based on CQB effectiveness, and from the ranges of 0-50 meters all ammo tested performed similarly and none stood out as being clearly superior.
Also worth mention is that during this testing the U.S. Army also tested the M80 7.62x51mm round fired from an M14 to compare it to the performance of the 5.56mm in CQB conditions. It performed in the same band of performance as the 5.56mm ammo tested. They concluded that in a CQB situation the 7.62x51mm round offered no measurable performance benefit over the 5.56mm round.
-----------------------------------
besides these, I have personally seen wounds and dead bodies of terrorists by OFB 5.55mm, The 7.62m43 or even 7.62NATO would have made no difference except larger size wounds ..
ghost
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Stopping Power: Myths, Legends, and Realities
As a trauma surgeon and a tactical medical specialist, I am often asked by law enforcement officers what caliber and type of handgun ammunition offers the most stopping power. I can't answer that question. Let me explain why.
The ammunition most commonly carried by law enforcement officers is a hollow-point configuration or expanding full metal jacket bullet, typically in one of five calibers, including .38/.357, 9mm, .357 SIG, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP. Other calibers are used in some departments. But for the sake of this discussion, let's stick with the most common rounds. These handgun rounds perform very differently based on a number of key factors that I'd like to discuss.
At most agencies it is typical for either the rangemaster or lead firearms trainer to choose specific ammunition (caliber and/or bullet type) based on the results of ammunition being run through a series of ballistic tests, most commonly the FBI's ballistic laboratory testing. Marketing by ammunition companies also influences how agencies choose the specific ammunition for front line officers to carry.
Unfortunately, the information that agencies are using to choose the ammo for their officers is generally based on hype as well as the flawed standardized testing using ballistic gel and measurements of the depth of penetration into ballistic gel, degree of bullet expansion, and other factors. Usually, actual data on human body wound ballistics is not available to agencies when they are choosing ammo for their officers.
What is most unfortunate is that the testing of modern bullets does not give a complete picture of what a particular ammunition configuration will do in the human body to incapacitate it in a timely fashion, in other words, stopping power. The testing results "infer" or "simulate" what is believed to happen in the human body, but I can tell you that from my experience operating on gunshot patients that this just is not the case.
So back to the question at hand about determining stopping power. If you are expecting me to tell you which brand and which bullet caliber and type to use for the best or most reliable stopping power, you are going to be disappointed. But I will tell you about the factors that determine stopping power.
Kinetic Energy
Most officers think that a larger bullet and higher velocity equal more "kinetic" energy, yielding more stopping power than a smaller bullet with the same velocity. Here's the reality:
We know that the equation for kinetic energy is KE = ½mv2 (KE is kinetic energy, m is mass of object, and v2 is velocity squared). This equation tells us how much energy will be derived from a combination of bullet grain weight and muzzle velocity.
Now we need to go back a step and define stopping power. Is it the ability of a particular ammunition to:
Immediately incapacitate a threat?
Eventually incapacitate a threat?
Slow down a threat?
Render a person less able to remain a threat?
Knock the threat to the ground?
I believe the definition of stopping power should be a particular ammunition's effectiveness to render a person unable to offer resistance or remain a threat to the officer, an intended victim, or self.
So how does ammunition accomplish this? You have two options. You can use a really large round at very high velocity like the 30mm cannon rounds from an Apache helicopter's M230 Chain Gun, which produces substantial kinetic energy, or you can place your shot where it has the most effect. Obviously, shot placement is the only realistic option for a law enforcement officer.
A .40 caliber bullet shot into the shirtless torso of a person causes a degree of injury due to the body absorbing the bullet's energy and dispersing it in front of and around the path of the bullet. The projectile also tears through the tissue. This means that the kinetic energy of this typically low-velocity (less than 1,500 feet per second) bullet will create both a permanent cavity and to a much lesser extent a temporary cavity.
But does this ammunition have acceptable stopping power? Only if it hits a vital structure that would "stop" the target from continuing the fight.
The Target Variable
Consider that the same ammunition shot into the torso of an officer wearing a ballistic vest involves the same forces, but they are dispersed over a greater surface area in order to dissipate those forces, which, hopefully, prevents penetration of the body and allows the officer to continue in the fight.
So is the stopping power the same or different for these two scenarios? The kinetic energy is the same, the tissue injury is different.
Another way to look at this is to think about a bowling ball as a projectile and how it might perform in two different scenarios. If someone shoots it out of a cannon into a brick wall, the large mass and high velocity will likely result in a significant hole in that wall. But if the same bowling ball is shot out of a cannon into a strong net made of Kevlar, it will likely have all of its energy taken up by the net and not allow penetration. It has the same energy to lose in its intended target but different targets yield different results. A bowling ball fired from a cannon has high kinetic energy and excellent stopping power that far exceeds any ammo you could carry on duty, but the effect it has on the target is still determined by shot placement and the nature of the target.
Real Gunshot Wounds
The point here is that no single ammunition that is typically used by law enforcement officers today can reliably claim to have superior stopping power.
I have seen a .22 caliber bullet completely incapacitate someone and a .45 ACP fail to achieve that result. People and animals shot with 10mm rounds and .357 SIG rounds have continued to run from the police. I have been on scene as a tactical medical provider when a suicidal person shot himself in the head with a .45 Colt round resulting in instant death. And I have seen the same results in suicides that used smaller calibers, including .22, .25, and .32. I have also seen people hit with 9mm, .40, and .45 without so much as staggering or slowing their verbal or physical activities.
So we come back to the original question: Which ammunition has the best stopping power? I can't answer that question. What I can say is that you should look for ammunition that reliably lives up to its claims of penetration and expansion but don't believe that these two factors alone are related to stopping power.
The ultimate stopping power rests with your training with your weapon system. Accurate hits in any reasonable caliber will "stop" a person if that person has experienced enough brain or spinal cord damage to interrupt regular neurologic impulses from reaching vital areas of the body or the person has hemorrhaged enough blood to lower his or her blood pressure where the brain no longer is able to function well. You can also stop a person if a major bone shatters after a bullet injures it, but does that stop the fight?
Stopping power is a marketing tool and should be dropped from our discussions of ballistic performance until such time as ammunition effectiveness is measured by more means than just the results of gelatin and barrier tests. When ammunition companies or regulatory agencies begin to use computer simulations, simulant tests, animal models, autopsy results, and trauma surgeon operation reports with hospital summaries to determine the effectiveness of their products, then we will know which ammunition can be labeled as having the "best stopping power." And this claim will be based on scientific data rather than incomplete ballistic testing.
Until then, shot placement with any commercially available ammunition will offer you the best chance of maximizing your duty ammunition's stopping power.
Stopping Power: Myths, Legends, and Realities - Article - POLICE Magazine
As a trauma surgeon and a tactical medical specialist, I am often asked by law enforcement officers what caliber and type of handgun ammunition offers the most stopping power. I can't answer that question. Let me explain why.
The ammunition most commonly carried by law enforcement officers is a hollow-point configuration or expanding full metal jacket bullet, typically in one of five calibers, including .38/.357, 9mm, .357 SIG, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP. Other calibers are used in some departments. But for the sake of this discussion, let's stick with the most common rounds. These handgun rounds perform very differently based on a number of key factors that I'd like to discuss.
At most agencies it is typical for either the rangemaster or lead firearms trainer to choose specific ammunition (caliber and/or bullet type) based on the results of ammunition being run through a series of ballistic tests, most commonly the FBI's ballistic laboratory testing. Marketing by ammunition companies also influences how agencies choose the specific ammunition for front line officers to carry.
Unfortunately, the information that agencies are using to choose the ammo for their officers is generally based on hype as well as the flawed standardized testing using ballistic gel and measurements of the depth of penetration into ballistic gel, degree of bullet expansion, and other factors. Usually, actual data on human body wound ballistics is not available to agencies when they are choosing ammo for their officers.
What is most unfortunate is that the testing of modern bullets does not give a complete picture of what a particular ammunition configuration will do in the human body to incapacitate it in a timely fashion, in other words, stopping power. The testing results "infer" or "simulate" what is believed to happen in the human body, but I can tell you that from my experience operating on gunshot patients that this just is not the case.
So back to the question at hand about determining stopping power. If you are expecting me to tell you which brand and which bullet caliber and type to use for the best or most reliable stopping power, you are going to be disappointed. But I will tell you about the factors that determine stopping power.
Kinetic Energy
Most officers think that a larger bullet and higher velocity equal more "kinetic" energy, yielding more stopping power than a smaller bullet with the same velocity. Here's the reality:
We know that the equation for kinetic energy is KE = ½mv2 (KE is kinetic energy, m is mass of object, and v2 is velocity squared). This equation tells us how much energy will be derived from a combination of bullet grain weight and muzzle velocity.
Now we need to go back a step and define stopping power. Is it the ability of a particular ammunition to:
Immediately incapacitate a threat?
Eventually incapacitate a threat?
Slow down a threat?
Render a person less able to remain a threat?
Knock the threat to the ground?
I believe the definition of stopping power should be a particular ammunition's effectiveness to render a person unable to offer resistance or remain a threat to the officer, an intended victim, or self.
So how does ammunition accomplish this? You have two options. You can use a really large round at very high velocity like the 30mm cannon rounds from an Apache helicopter's M230 Chain Gun, which produces substantial kinetic energy, or you can place your shot where it has the most effect. Obviously, shot placement is the only realistic option for a law enforcement officer.
A .40 caliber bullet shot into the shirtless torso of a person causes a degree of injury due to the body absorbing the bullet's energy and dispersing it in front of and around the path of the bullet. The projectile also tears through the tissue. This means that the kinetic energy of this typically low-velocity (less than 1,500 feet per second) bullet will create both a permanent cavity and to a much lesser extent a temporary cavity.
But does this ammunition have acceptable stopping power? Only if it hits a vital structure that would "stop" the target from continuing the fight.
The Target Variable
Consider that the same ammunition shot into the torso of an officer wearing a ballistic vest involves the same forces, but they are dispersed over a greater surface area in order to dissipate those forces, which, hopefully, prevents penetration of the body and allows the officer to continue in the fight.
So is the stopping power the same or different for these two scenarios? The kinetic energy is the same, the tissue injury is different.
Another way to look at this is to think about a bowling ball as a projectile and how it might perform in two different scenarios. If someone shoots it out of a cannon into a brick wall, the large mass and high velocity will likely result in a significant hole in that wall. But if the same bowling ball is shot out of a cannon into a strong net made of Kevlar, it will likely have all of its energy taken up by the net and not allow penetration. It has the same energy to lose in its intended target but different targets yield different results. A bowling ball fired from a cannon has high kinetic energy and excellent stopping power that far exceeds any ammo you could carry on duty, but the effect it has on the target is still determined by shot placement and the nature of the target.
Real Gunshot Wounds
The point here is that no single ammunition that is typically used by law enforcement officers today can reliably claim to have superior stopping power.
I have seen a .22 caliber bullet completely incapacitate someone and a .45 ACP fail to achieve that result. People and animals shot with 10mm rounds and .357 SIG rounds have continued to run from the police. I have been on scene as a tactical medical provider when a suicidal person shot himself in the head with a .45 Colt round resulting in instant death. And I have seen the same results in suicides that used smaller calibers, including .22, .25, and .32. I have also seen people hit with 9mm, .40, and .45 without so much as staggering or slowing their verbal or physical activities.
So we come back to the original question: Which ammunition has the best stopping power? I can't answer that question. What I can say is that you should look for ammunition that reliably lives up to its claims of penetration and expansion but don't believe that these two factors alone are related to stopping power.
The ultimate stopping power rests with your training with your weapon system. Accurate hits in any reasonable caliber will "stop" a person if that person has experienced enough brain or spinal cord damage to interrupt regular neurologic impulses from reaching vital areas of the body or the person has hemorrhaged enough blood to lower his or her blood pressure where the brain no longer is able to function well. You can also stop a person if a major bone shatters after a bullet injures it, but does that stop the fight?
Stopping power is a marketing tool and should be dropped from our discussions of ballistic performance until such time as ammunition effectiveness is measured by more means than just the results of gelatin and barrier tests. When ammunition companies or regulatory agencies begin to use computer simulations, simulant tests, animal models, autopsy results, and trauma surgeon operation reports with hospital summaries to determine the effectiveness of their products, then we will know which ammunition can be labeled as having the "best stopping power." And this claim will be based on scientific data rather than incomplete ballistic testing.
Until then, shot placement with any commercially available ammunition will offer you the best chance of maximizing your duty ammunition's stopping power.
Stopping Power: Myths, Legends, and Realities - Article - POLICE Magazine
Immanuel
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True though stopping power and caliber is a tough discussion, I care little about what US mil studies show (their idea of COIN is very different from ours) in their sense they go in locked and loaded knowing their asses are covered with airsupport and if we would use their techniques kashmir would be mostly bombed out. IA's idea of COIN in the most tried & tested, they are so well refined that had we fought the afghan war, the taliban would have been squashed in a couple of years using units like RR, Assam Rifles etc.
Based on real usage of RR, COBRA, Greyhounds and CRPF COIN/ anti naxal units vastly deploying and using the AK & SLR rounds in comparison to the INSAS laden with OFB round clearly proves the troops still prefer the drop em dead power that these high caliber rounds offer. This is not to say the OFB 5.56 is not good, tis perhaps one of best basic 5.56 NATO rounds but it is inadequate for COIN/anti terror ops. RR vastly deploying the AK proves my point.
My opinion IA believes in having a multi caliber range and 5.56 will be used for basic law enforcement & paramilitary by CRPF, CISF and other policing units while IA switches to 6.8mm. The knock down power is better, 5.56 is just as able to kill as anyother round, however there is no reason why IA shouldn't move to a better round like 6.8mm with better impact energies and longer effective range. Anyways in a few years hopefully the INSAS is fully dumped and duly replaced with the DRDO Multical and then forces like RR, BSF, ITBP can switch to 7.62, police forces can keep 5.56 and Infantry can move on to 6.8mm. SF will use a variety based on mission.
5.56mm vs 6.8mm: YOU DECIDE! | The Loadout Room
Based on real usage of RR, COBRA, Greyhounds and CRPF COIN/ anti naxal units vastly deploying and using the AK & SLR rounds in comparison to the INSAS laden with OFB round clearly proves the troops still prefer the drop em dead power that these high caliber rounds offer. This is not to say the OFB 5.56 is not good, tis perhaps one of best basic 5.56 NATO rounds but it is inadequate for COIN/anti terror ops. RR vastly deploying the AK proves my point.
My opinion IA believes in having a multi caliber range and 5.56 will be used for basic law enforcement & paramilitary by CRPF, CISF and other policing units while IA switches to 6.8mm. The knock down power is better, 5.56 is just as able to kill as anyother round, however there is no reason why IA shouldn't move to a better round like 6.8mm with better impact energies and longer effective range. Anyways in a few years hopefully the INSAS is fully dumped and duly replaced with the DRDO Multical and then forces like RR, BSF, ITBP can switch to 7.62, police forces can keep 5.56 and Infantry can move on to 6.8mm. SF will use a variety based on mission.
5.56mm vs 6.8mm: YOU DECIDE! | The Loadout Room
Immanuel
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http://cryeprecision.com/CRYE_PRECISION_2014_PRODUCT_GUIDE.pdf
Some sweet stuff from Crye, somethings to think of while developing new stuff in India
Some sweet stuff from Crye, somethings to think of while developing new stuff in India
abingdonboy
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From the above vid:Indian para commando receive new helmet
This is from recent encounter in Kashmir where Para commandos took part plus he is carrying tavor so a Para commando check at 2 :19 .
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abingdonboy
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Posted on PDF by @Hkdas:
PARA (SF) with M4 with a suppressor (first time seeing pic of such a thing). Having trouble identifying the scope, any thoughts?
@Kunal Biswas
PARA (SF) with M4 with a suppressor (first time seeing pic of such a thing). Having trouble identifying the scope, any thoughts?
@Kunal Biswas
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Its seems to be a scope ..
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Refex sight is good for close in combat, For longer ranges it is important to provide user with scopes ..
PARA SF
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Some options that PARA SF can adopt in future ..
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