Indian Sniper Equipment & Tactics

[cobra commando]

Doesn't it only mean that OFB should stick to R&D, leaving manufacturing to private partners...?

Also, the forces did ask OFB for .308 rifle, not .338.



Whose product is this?

Dunno about the pic, but the Indian company 'Stumpp Schule & Somappa' has a JV (SS-LMT) with Lewis Machine & Tool Company (LMT) of You-Yes-Yey! "

Satish Machani, managing director, Stumpp Schule & Somappa, said the joint venture was in place with Lewis Machine & Tool Company (LMT) of USA for making rifles and CBC of Brazil for making ammunition. “We have applied for a licence. Once that comes through, the company is ready to start production by this year itself. CBC is world’s second largest ammunition maker and is planning to shift its entire line to India. The ammunition will be exported,” he said. Machani said the guns were being used in the US, the UK and New Zealand and as per the current plan it would be manufactured in Bengaluru while ammunition would be made in Chennai. A representative of the foreign partner said the rifles that would be made here would be exported to countries in the Middle East and South East Asia.

sauce: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...-under-jv-for-export/articleshow/63753724.cms

 

[armyofhind]

There are too many ignorant folks who think they know too much. It's hard to explain the physics, metallurgy, precision etc to them. For the dude who is arguing with you about swapping barrels on Vidhwansak, a sniper rifle's barrel is nothing but a metal pipe!

That said, Lapua Magnum is a very versatile choice - because the overall rifle weight doesn't get too heavy.
But for really long range sniping a 50 caliber is best suited. The record for longest range sniping is held by McMilan Tac 50

.50 BMG can reach out the farthest and still have enough energy for an overkill.. no doubt about that.

But then there are limitations in terms of weight I guess.. firstly of the round by itself and of the weapon which can fire the humongous round.

The bigger round and weapon would be great for Specialist applications and longer sightlines in the hands of Special Forces.. or where a statement needs to be really made by ripping an enemy officer in half

But for all other applications, the .338 is a great step forward for Indian Snipers in my opinion

 

[pankaj nema]

.50 caliber bullet travels the Farthest
Followed by .338 Lapua Magnum rounds

Our Dragunov is hopelessly outranged

7.62 x 51 is Not an Effective Sniper Round
Though its Max Range is 1800 metres

 

[rkhanna]

We are discussing extreme range shots as if just by having a large calibre rife the Indian Army has the capability to make those shots.

Keep in mind that Globally there are only 19 recorded/confirmed kills at ~1400 yards (1250-1300m) - a bulk of them in near perfect conditions i might add.

1300+ yard snipers come few in a generation and are not mass produced.

In India - now that the kit is coming- we need to start setting up proper sniper training + usage doctrines in place

 

[pankaj nema]

We are discussing extreme range shots as if just by having a large calibre rife the Indian Army has the capability to make those shots.

Keep in mind that Globally there are only 19 recorded/confirmed kills at ~1400 yards (1250-1300m) - a bulk of them in near perfect conditions i might add.

1300+ yard snipers come few in a generation and are not mass produced.

In India - now that the kit is coming- we need to start setting up proper sniper training + usage doctrines in place

We need 338 and 50 calibre very urgently
To kill Paki soldiers

Simply because Pakistani soldiers don't patrol the LOC , like our soldiers

They simply stay in their forward posts and bunkers

Therefore a longer range round is needed to kill them when they move out and around

Killing infiltrators is easy and no big deal
Because they are Jihadis sent on Suicide
Missions anyway , also they can be shot when
They are in Range of our Guns

 

[rkhanna]

We need 338 and 50 calibre very urgently
To kill Paki soldiers

Simply because Pakistani soldiers don't patrol the LOC , like our soldiers

They simply stay in their forward posts and bunkers

Therefore a longer range round is needed to kill them when they move out and around

Killing infiltrators is easy and no big deal
Because they are Jihadis sent on Suicide
Missions anyway , also they can be shot when
They are in Range of our Guns

You missed my point. Having the Weapons doesnt mean we are hitting anything at extreme ranges.

Sub 1000m at high altitude any DMR that we have would suffice. + dont forget the NTW-20s that we have. And currently we dont have the talent pool to hit long range shots with authority.

A Sniper is an offensive weapon. They have to hunt. Meaning they have to leave the comfort of their OWN Forward posts and Bunkers and hunt from the bush.

If our long guns are going to sit inside our Bunkers and take shots then we simply given our Designated Marksmen upgraded kit and nothing more.


IMO just because the press harped on "Paki snipers" we suddenly inducted our own new shiny kit. Anybody getting a flashback to the Arjun MBT decision? - If this kit is not followed by a systematic implementation of "Sniper Capability" in the Indian Army ORBAT everything is just a big waste.

 

[pankaj nema]

You missed my point. Having the Weapons doesnt mean we are hitting anything at extreme ranges.

Sub 1000m at high altitude any DMR that we have would suffice. + dont forget the NTW-20s that we have. And currently we dont have the talent pool to hit long range shots with authority.

A Sniper is an offensive weapon. They have to hunt. Meaning they have to leave the comfort of their OWN Forward posts and Bunkers and hunt from the bush.

If our long guns are going to sit inside our Bunkers and take shots then we simply given our Designated Marksmen upgraded kit and nothing more.


IMO just because the press harped on "Paki snipers" we suddenly inducted our own new shiny kit. Anybody getting a flashback to the Arjun MBT decision? - If this kit is not followed by a systematic implementation of "Sniper Capability" in the Indian Army ORBAT everything is just a big waste.

Your point is purely theoretical

LOC conflict is all about gaining
Moral Ascendancy over the Enemy

That is achieved by killing More enemy soldiers than your own losses

Right now we use Mortars and Heavy Machine Guns for long Range Kills
And for keeping the " Score " in our favour

But these are mostly enemy soldiers

we need These long Range Sniper guns and Bullets for taking out their Officers

 

[rkhanna]

Your point is purely theoretical

LOC conflict is all about gaining
Moral Ascendancy over the Enemy

That is achieved by killing More enemy soldiers than your own losses

Right now we use Mortars and Heavy Machine Guns for long Range Kills
And for keeping the " Score " in our favour

But these are mostly enemy soldiers

we need These long Range Sniper guns and Bullets for taking out their Officers

Sorry but you keep proving my point. I don't think you quiet understand the role of a sniper in the battle field.

Ps nothing I have said is theoretical. Despite the new kit out DM will still make / take the same shots that they used to take with the dragnovs .

Simply put we don't have a long gun culture or capability within our services.

Those mortars and HMGs will continue to be most effective.

 

[pankaj nema]

Sorry but you keep proving my point. I don't think you quiet understand the role of a sniper in the battle field.

Ps nothing I have said is theoretical. Despite the new kit out DM will still make / take the same shots that they used to take with the dragnovs .

Simply put we don't have a long gun culture or capability within our services.

Those mortars and HMGs will continue to be most effective.

It might take some time for our forces to get completely trained on these New Guns

But we had to make a Beginning at some
Point of Time

What will our Officers say to our Jawans
When they ask them " Why Pakis have better Sniper Guns "

And given the Tendency of Paki officers to
Stay Behind , it is absolutely necessary to hunt them like dogs rather than
"Spray and Pray " , just hoping to hit someone
With our Heavy Machine Guns

Wastage of Ammunition is another matter

 

[armyofhind]

You missed my point. Having the Weapons doesnt mean we are hitting anything at extreme ranges.

Sub 1000m at high altitude any DMR that we have would suffice. + dont forget the NTW-20s that we have. And currently we dont have the talent pool to hit long range shots with authority.

A Sniper is an offensive weapon. They have to hunt. Meaning they have to leave the comfort of their OWN Forward posts and Bunkers and hunt from the bush.

If our long guns are going to sit inside our Bunkers and take shots then we simply given our Designated Marksmen upgraded kit and nothing more.


IMO just because the press harped on "Paki snipers" we suddenly inducted our own new shiny kit. Anybody getting a flashback to the Arjun MBT decision? - If this kit is not followed by a systematic implementation of "Sniper Capability" in the Indian Army ORBAT everything is just a big waste.

True.. it'll take time to develop actual Sniper capability.
By Sniper I mean here the specialised soldier.

But, at the same time.. we do have existing Sniper capability in our SF, who were hitherto hindered by their inventory with the Galatz as they're primary rifle. As it is, SF guys are pretty good marksmen, and in that too, SF Snipers are a breed apart.

I'm pretty sure they'll adapt to using the Lapua Magnum to the edge of its envelope soon enough and then we can expect some real magic.

 

[rkhanna]

True.. it'll take time to develop actual Sniper capability.
By Sniper I mean here the specialised soldier.

But, at the same time.. we do have existing Sniper capability in our SF, who were hitherto hindered by their inventory with the Galatz as they're primary rifle. As it is, SF guys are pretty good marksmen, and in that too, SF Snipers are a breed apart.

I'm pretty sure they'll adapt to using the Lapua Magnum to the edge of its envelope soon enough and then we can expect some real magic.

I get what you are saying but we don't have a true blue sniper capability with SF either and the greatest evidence of that is the limited role and employment of spotters. A sniper (trigger puller) is only as good as his spotter.

The best 'snipers' we have are the urban counter snipers with SAG and CAT . And those are up there with some of the best in the world. But that's a whole different world of sniper role

 

[Slevin]

Please see the video on ASAT test -

 

[Krishna Gopal Gupta]

This thread is dedicated to Snipers and Sniper equipments if Indian Army.

Do anyone know about new India sniper rifle project named TIGER? This is new program with American sniper rifle that will integrate into ours.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

https://www.isro.gov.in/update/22-may-2019/risat-2b-radial-rib-antenna

May 22, 2019
RISAT-2B: Radial Rib Antenna
Radial Rib antenna (RRA) is a world class technology demonstrated in-orbit today at 2:20 pm IST in the RISAT-2B spacecraft. This 3.6 metre antenna was folded & stowed during launch and later successfully unfurled & deployed in-orbit. The deployment was completed in 7 mins and 20 seconds.

Development of light weight structure, hinge mechanism, design of newer mesh, actuators etc., were some of the challenges involved in the realisation of this antenna. All such key technological elements require very high level of expertise in handling space based antenna system, excellent workmanship and building redundancy apart from managing the deployment in-orbit.

This antenna was realised indigenously by ISRO team in a record time of 13 months. Alternate import option would have taken about 3-4 years. Successful deployment of RRA in RISAT-2B establishes the combination of all skills mastered by ISRO indigenously.

 

[indiatester]

https://www.isro.gov.in/update/22-may-2019/risat-2b-radial-rib-antenna

Wrong thread buddy............

 

[Bhadra]

I get what you are saying but we don't have a true blue sniper capability with SF either and the greatest evidence of that is the limited role and employment of spotters. A sniper (trigger puller) is only as good as his spotter.

The best 'snipers' we have are the urban counter snipers with SAG and CAT . And those are up there with some of the best in the world. But that's a whole different world of sniper role

But are not military targets and environment for snipping operations very different from assassination / elimination sniping operation undertaken by intelligence and civil oriented SFs ? Sniper equipment required would differ and so would the techniques. For example the silencers are not so useful for military snipping as for int agency assassinators. The range obtainable would also vastly vary.

Even he classical snipping missions of stay behind snipper parties has not been heard of in urban Srinagar and valley. Even in Sri Lanka (Op PAWAN) no such operations were possible where the population is so hostile But the LTTE was adapt in doing so.

OP Black Thunder was a classical urban sniper operation but we are unlikely to witness Stalingrad sniper operation into Lahore. Who is going to allow us to be inside Lahore for two years ?

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Wrong thread buddy............

My bad, sorry.
...............

 

[Chinmoy]

Indian Army deploys US-, Italy-trained snipers with deadly new rifles along LoC

https://theprint.in/defence/indian-...pers-with-deadly-new-rifles-along-loc/241829/

 

[Skdas]

Indian Army deploys US-, Italy-trained snipers with deadly new rifles along LoC

https://theprint.in/defence/indian-...pers-with-deadly-new-rifles-along-loc/241829/

Let those Nokia 3310 sized bullets fly..!
Paki general behind 2 civilian buildings, no problem.
Mortar position in slightly open area, no problem.
Injured BSF jawan with SFW, need to cut few Porkis in half, no problem.

50 BMG is a beast. Nothing short of a sand berm will stop that. If only all Porkis could stand in a straight line, somebody from our side could earn 10x kill multiplier...

 

[Bhadra]

Indian Army deploys US-, Italy-trained snipers with deadly new rifles along LoC

https://theprint.in/defence/indian-...pers-with-deadly-new-rifles-along-loc/241829/

Problems of Snipper Operation On LC
​

Interpost distance required for snipper ranges not available everywhere. The distances between Indian Posts and Pakistani Posts varies from 50 meters to two -three kms.
* Civilian population exist bang on LC backwards. Pakistani soldiers and officers all carry out movements and routine activities in civil clothes along with civilians. It is difficult to identify and distinguish between Pakistani soldiers, officers, civilians and Jihadis unless or until they are inside posts or seen as armed.

* Deployment of snappers out side the post / bunkers in open areas is dangerous due to sudden and regular shelling by the enemy.

* Terrain configurations are irregular, many areas dominated by enemy and movement easily detected.

* Detection of snipper post snipping is easy and very heavy volume of fire can be brought on the snippers.

* A battalion is spread over a very large area which would require large numbers of snippers. Generally not available.

* If I deploy one pair of snipper on LC in a particular area, their patterns, habits, style, firing standards and may be his identity will be established within no time, endangering the snippers.