Indian Ocean Developments

asianobserve

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i feel exactly same as you do but what i cannot understand is why is australia hell bent on countering india and china.
As regards China, Australia knows first hand how is it to be bullied. Note the incident where one Aussie executive was detained in China after Australian struck down the Chinese offer to take over one of its biggest mining firm. If this could happen to its citicens inside China it could happen to any of its commercial vessels in the Southern Pacific or South China Sea. As to India, well there is not much trust between the parties. You could get it from the comments of posters here about Australia. Indians have this innate distance (or contempt?) against Australia. Maybe it's a hangover from the anti-colonial era. But whatever it is the Aussies are not particularly confident that they can trust the Indians in the crucial Indian Ocean oil lanes...
 

sanjay

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The Aussie military is just fear-mongering in order to raise their acquisition budget.

Trust India over what? Under what circumstance would India try to inflict a sea blockade against Australia?

The only interest the Aussies have for greater power projection is in advancing their claims that all of Antarctica belongs to them - something which neither the US nor any other country accepts - the Aussies are alone on that one.
 

asianobserve

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The Aussie military is just fear-mongering in order to raise their acquisition budget.

Trust India over what? Under what circumstance would India try to inflict a sea blockade against Australia?

The only interest the Aussies have for greater power projection is in advancing their claims that all of Antarctica belongs to them - something which neither the US nor any other country accepts - the Aussies are alone on that one.
Well, that's what you think. I think the Aussies are also concerned about their role in their own immediate vicinity. With the navies of China and India on testosterone they cannot afford to continue dilly dally on their modernization lest they'll end up the pigmy in their own backyard...
 

SADAKHUSH

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What are Austrlians afraid about? Who ever came up with this idea that Austrlia should counter IN and China Navy in Indian Ocean. May be they meant China only and threw the name of Indian Navy for reason known to them only.
On one hand Indian Navy is busy making alliance with countries of the region including Australia. Why is there a change in Australia's strategy? Does it have to do with USA changing allainces in South East Asia?
Can some one throw light on the developing story?
 

sanjay

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They watch these movies like "Tomorrow When the War Began" and then they think they're a vulnerable isolated ethnic outpost surrounded by hostiles, like Israel.


They had a similar fear of Japanese invasion during WW2.
 
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mattster

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Wow, I just went thru this 3 page thread and they are full of wild, baseless, and if I may say some really idiotic assertions except for a few posts.

First off Australia and the US have been allies for so long - long before anyone here on this forum was born. The US-Aussie alliance is rock-solid.

The Aussies are surrounded by ocean and its an ocean that is increasingly being militarized by China, India, indonesia, Malaysia, etc and other countries in the Gulf. It would be absolutely foolhardy for the Aussies to not keep an eye on all the major players in region, and build a strong navy that can counter any power-plays by emerging nations.

Now some may ask - why the sudden interest in building up the navy. Well before they could always depend on the US to safe-guard their interests but with US budget deficits being what they are - it is prudent of the Aussies to build up their own capacity.
The real concern is China, not so much India.

As the saying goes when it comes to international relations - hope for the best, and prepare for the worst.

They have by and large been an exemplary nation in the conduct of foreign policy and being a responsible nation.
Australia is not involved in any major power-play or power projection games.
But they just want to make sure if any of the regional players be it China, India, Pakistan, Indonesia gets any fresh ideas, they are prepared to deal with it.

Its exactly what any country in their position should do.
 

ace009

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Wow, I just went thru this 3 page thread and they are full of wild, baseless, and if I may say some really idiotic assertions except for a few posts.

First off Australia and the US have been allies for so long - long before anyone here on this forum was born. The US-Aussie alliance is rock-solid.

The Aussies are surrounded by ocean and its an ocean that is increasingly being militarized by China, India, indonesia, Malaysia, etc and other countries in the Gulf. It would be absolutely foolhardy for the Aussies to not keep an eye on all the major players in region, and build a strong navy that can counter any power-plays by emerging nations.

Now some may ask - why the sudden interest in building up the navy. Well before they could always depend on the US to safe-guard their interests but with US budget deficits being what they are - it is prudent of the Aussies to build up their own capacity.
The real concern is China, not so much India.

As the saying goes when it comes to international relations - hope for the best, and prepare for the worst.

They have by and large been an exemplary nation in the conduct of foreign policy and being a responsible nation.
Australia is not involved in any major power-play or power projection games.
But they just want to make sure if any of the regional players be it China, India, Pakistan, Indonesia gets any fresh ideas, they are prepared to deal with it.

Its exactly what any country in their position should do.
Fear of China is understandable - but why should they fear IN? India is their natural ally - and the RAN does regular exercises with IN.
 

Zebra

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What are Austrlians afraid about? Who ever came up with this idea that Austrlia should counter IN and China Navy in Indian Ocean. May be they meant China only and threw the name of Indian Navy for reason known to them only.
On one hand Indian Navy is busy making alliance with countries of the region including Australia. Why is there a change in Australia's strategy? Does it have to do with USA changing allainces in South East Asia?
Can some one throw light on the developing story?
I do agree with you .

Here in Australia people do not trust US . If you ask about US , Australian will say - I can't trust US but I know that we have to stay with them .

India have nothing to do with Australia , I mean to say any war / threat / attack or some thing like this .

India have this aircrafts ( Su 30 mki) since 2000, if I am not wrong . Australia relise this threat now in 2011 ?
 
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civfanatic

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Fear of China is understandable - but why should they fear IN? India is their natural ally - and the RAN does regular exercises with IN.
Kangaroos are not our "natural allies", I don't know how you came to that conclusion.

Two countries can be considered "natural allies" only if they share great cultural commonality and converging geopolitical interests. An example would be the Anglo-American alliance. India shares no such cultural commonality with Australia, nor do our geopolitical interests converge completely.

It is India's misfortune that almost all the countries with similar culture as India (Pakistan, Nepal, Bangladesh, etc.) are our geopolitical rivals.
 

Zebra

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@ civfanatic ,
"Kangaroos are not our natural allies"

Can you elaborate this please .
 

AOE

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Mattster nailed this in one, 3-4 pages of hilarious stupidity, chest thumping, and the odd bit of racism with a few posts of sanity by those who understand the ANZUS or English speaking long term alliances.

...but of course I take this thread with a grain of sand, a few stupid youths in one of the most culturally liberal cities in Australia stab some Indians and all of a sudden our entire society is racist, and one politician talks about stepping up our navy and suddenly everyone in this country is now paranoid of Indians. :rotfl:

On CFs post; I might add that India does share some amount of commonality; particularly that a sizable amount of its business, political, and other groups within society speak English, is a democracy, and is friendlier and more open to western culture (as opposed to China, or India's supposed 'misfortunate' neighboring enemies).
 
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Tshering22

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First off Australia and the US have been allies for so long - long before anyone here on this forum was born. The US-Aussie alliance is rock-solid.
Of course we do. Who told you that we're unaware of Australian participation in a security pact with USA? That's what most of us are talking about here: US is pivotal to Australian existence.

The Aussies are surrounded by ocean and its an ocean that is increasingly being militarized by China, India, indonesia, Malaysia, etc and other countries in the Gulf. It would be absolutely foolhardy for the Aussies to not keep an eye on all the major players in region, and build a strong navy that can counter any power-plays by emerging nations.
Without your help, no matter what they do, they cannot match the levels of PLAN or IN. Our yardstick of expansion is China and a point of trouble is Pakistan. What is their yardstick? The thing is, they are just bored of being considered unimportant militarily and simply want some attention. Not to mention create fear mongering so that you lot give them state of the art weapons.

Australia should be grateful that they're in a place where they can put 100% of their work and money to be a peaceful developed state unlike us or Israelis, both of whom are surrounded by enemies, in our case who happen to be a nuclear armed terrorist factory and another an expansionist empire.

Indonesian and Malaysian navies are even tinier than their own. What are they going to do to them? And why? Also Chinese happen to be Australia's biggest benefactors.

Now some may ask - why the sudden interest in building up the navy. Well before they could always depend on the US to safe-guard their interests but with US budget deficits being what they are - it is prudent of the Aussies to build up their own capacity.
The real concern is China, not so much India.
Aussies saved themselves from recession due to Chinese trading with them. A third of their population is Chinese origin or mixed with Australian. Chinese are the biggest minority in Australia. If that way one has to think, China has already crept into Australia long back. Their forces should emphasize on dealing with piracy and counter-terrorism by sea if at all should they need to militarily think. Even if they hike their defense budge sizably, PLAN if it comes to war (without you), would gobble the RAN in hours.

As the saying goes when it comes to international relations - hope for the best, and prepare for the worst.
I certainly agree on this one.

They have by and large been an exemplary nation in the conduct of foreign policy and being a responsible nation. Australia is not involved in any major power-play or power projection games.
That is because there's nothing much they need to do in terms of involving themselves in tricky situations. Their geographic location isolating them from the rest of the world, makes them a country without any disputes, rich economy and resources ensures that all want to be friendly to them.

What irresponsibility or risk taking do you fancy for Australians under such ideal conditions?
 

AOE

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Aussies saved themselves from recession due to Chinese trading with them.
India is also a major trading partner with China, business is just business.

A third of their population is Chinese origin or mixed with Australian. Chinese are the biggest minority in Australia.
lol. A third of this country is Chinese in origin or mixed? On what evidence is this based on? I live in this country and with the exception of some parts of Melbourne and Sydney, I would be reluctant to find 1/3 Australians being of Chinese origin. There are more Italians, New Zealanders, and British in this country than nearly all other immigrant groups (including China). The CIA Factbook lists our country as 92% white, 7% Asian, and 1% other. So where do you get the idea that our country has 7 million Chinese?

If that way one has to think, China has already crept into Australia long back.
lol yes clearly immigration shows we are now becoming a colony of the PRC, with 204,000 Chinese here compared to 21 million of everyone else. Woah is us. The funny thing is that if a conservative politician made these claims here, not only would he get laughed at, but he would also be accused of racism. Reading this from an Indian just makes me feel perplexed.

Their forces should emphasize on dealing with piracy and counter-terrorism by sea if at all should they need to militarily think. Even if they hike their defense budge sizably, PLAN if it comes to war (without you), would gobble the RAN in hours.
In a way the RAN is already engaged in fighting piracy in the region, particularly from Indonesia. Of course our country would be beaten in a one-on-one naval war with the PLAN; if you haven't noticed, you're talking about a country of just over 20 million going up against a country with over 1.3 billion and the second largest defense budget on earth. They have far more cannon fodder, industrialization, and a larger economy at their disposal.

Also what would be the point of the PRC attacking Australia? We have a US base here, where as China is more focussed on Taiwan, followed by US allies in the east; South Korea and Japan.
 
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Tshering22

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On CFs post; I might add that India does share some amount of commonality; particularly that a sizable amount of its business, political, and other groups within society speak English, is a democracy, and is friendlier and more open to western culture (as opposed to China, or India's supposed 'misfortunate' neighboring enemies).
There you go. That's what most of us want. But trying to be "cool" by showing the unpleasant attitude towards us is not going to get you anywhere. Funny you say so much against China considering that they saved your necks from recession 2 years back. Even if Chinese get aggressive, barring US/NATO, PLAN would gobble Australia down if it really wanted to.

..but of course I take this thread with a grain of sand, a few stupid youths in one of the most culturally liberal cities in Australia stab some Indians and all of a sudden our entire society is racist, and one politician talks about stepping up our navy and suddenly everyone in this country is now paranoid of Indians.
Why only Indians if they are racists? After all, all of us south Asians (except a few eastern Indians like me) look very similar to (if) racists. This was a bunch of targeted attacks. Australia is not a problem for us. It is just that a considerable lot Aussies think that by being overtly aggressive, they're being 'cool'. Try this with Pakistanis and you'd have bombs blowing up everywhere. Don't tell me the bull that this is not the trend. In the course of my work, I've come across a lot of Australians. Though professional in their work environment, tendencies reflect even in most polite behavior.

Curry bashing ain't cool and if you think that beating up unarmed students is cool, then let me tell you it isn't. Compared to other immigrants or students from our neighbouring countries, our people are not half as unruly for this sort of crappy treatment.

Other than that, tell me how much bitterness has existed between India and Australia before 2007's spate of violent targeted attacks against our unarmed students? None. There has been a problem and that's the reason why there was bitterness in the recent turn of our relationship.
 

Yatharth Singh

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What type of vessels are these?
Class and category?
 
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