Indian nuclear submarines

[nitesh]

our ATV is all purpose sub, it can carry ballistic missiles, cruise missile and even hunt down SSBN due to its small size. ,

The era of multi role subs has came

 

[nitesh]

India to achieve N-arm triad in February - The Times of India

NEW DELHI: India will take a big step towards achieving a credible nuclear weapon triad in February when its first indigenous nuclear submarine INS Arihant begins sea trials off Visakhapatnam.

Top defence ministry sources say the "sea-acceptance trials'' (SATS) of INS Arihant are slated to begin "towards end-February'' after the completion of its ongoing harbour-acceptance trials (HATS). "It will take at least six months of extensive SATS and missile trials before the boat is ready for commissioning into Navy,'' said a source.

With INS Arihant's induction, India for the first time will brandish the most effective third leg of the nuclear triad - the ability to fire nukes from land, air and sea. The first two legs revolve around the Agni family of ballistic missiles and fighters like Sukhoi-30MKIs and Mirage-2000s jury-rigged to deliver nuclear warheads. Only the Big-5 has nuclear triads till now, with a total of over 140 nuclear-powered submarines. America leads the pack with 71, followed by Russia with about 40, while China, the UK and France have around 10-12 each. India did get delivery of INS Chakra, the rechristened Akula-II nuclear-powered submarine 'K-152 Nerpa', from Russia on a 10-year lease last week. But while it will bolster the country's underwater firepower, it's not armed with nuclear-tipped missiles due to international treatises.

India's nuclear triad will be in place, as Navy chief Admiral Nirmal Verma has declared, once INS Arihant is out at sea on "deterrent patrols''. It has been a long journey for INS Arihant since it was "launched'' at Vizag in July, 2009, with PM Manmohan Singh himself in attendance.

Each and every sub-system was checked and re-checked, along with high-pressure steam trials of all the pipelines, before the miniature 83 MW pressurized light-water reactor, fitted in a containment vessel on board the over 6,000-tonne INS Arihant, went "critical'' last year, said sources.

"HATS followed thereafter. Now, things are on track for SATS to begin in end-February,'' said the source. Simultaneously, fabrication work on the three follow-on SSBNs (nuclear-powered submarines armed with nuclear ballistic missiles), dubbed S-2, S-3 and S-4, is in full swing under the over Rs 30,000-crore advanced technology vessel programme. The second SSBN after INS Arihant is to be named INS Aridhaman, both of which loosely mean "potent destroyer of enemies''. They are to be armed first with the 750-km K-15 and at a later stage with the under-development 3,500-km K-4 SLBMs (submarine-launched ballistic missiles). INS Arihant has four silos on its hump to carry either 12 K-15s or four K-4s.

Navy wants to have three SSBNs and six SSNs (nuclear-powered attack submarines) in the long term, as reported by TOI earlier. The force is grappling with a depleting conventional underwater arm, down to only 14 ageing diesel-electric submarines.

Nuclear-powered submarines can silently stay underwater for months at end, unlike conventional ones that have to surface every few days to get oxygen to recharge their batteries. India with a clear "no-first use'' nuclear doctrine needs survivable second-strike capability riding on SSBNs to ensure credible deterrence.

 

[trackwhack]

Is there any other sub in the world that can house more than one missile in one silo? This whole business of 12 K 15's in 4 launch silos seems implausible. Are they gonna fit 3 launch tubes per silo? Not very convincing and basic engineering and risk analysis would deter such a design.

 

[nitesh]

Is there any other sub in the world that can house more than one missile in one silo? This whole business of 12 K 15's in 4 launch silos seems implausible. Are they gonna fit 3 launch tubes per silo? Not very convincing and basic engineering and risk analysis would deter such a design.

What makes you so sure that it is a bad idea?

 

[trackwhack]

What makes you so sure that it is a bad idea?

I am not sure of anything as there is just not enough news available about the design. We can only speculate.

An SLBM is initially ejected from the Silo using a separate explosive charge. The missile itself is launched only after it has cleared the water surface. Hence the design is not as simple as fitting 3 missiles into each silo and firing them. The only logical way is to have three separate launch tubes fitted into each silo holding a missile each. This means the ejection charges have to be built into the launch tubes. Considering the forces that have to be dealt with, these launch tubes have to be made of high strength material that can withstand enormous stress forces. Further, the tube mounts to the silos itself have to be really strong to handle the recoil effect.

All this does not make for a very practical design in my opinion. I have searched quite a bit an have not found another instance of a ballistic missile sub with a similar approach.

Of course, I am just a patzer and would not know for sure. I am only seeking some answers from those who may know a bit more.

 

[utubekhiladi]

Is there any other sub in the world that can house more than one missile in one silo? This whole business of 12 K 15's in 4 launch silos seems implausible. Are they gonna fit 3 launch tubes per silo? Not very convincing and basic engineering and risk analysis would deter such a design.

multiple missiles in single silo - ohio class submarine.

even i was not sure about having multiple missiles in single launch tube before; but after talking with saya and kunal biswas and lethalforce and other members on this forum, i am convinced that arihant is in right direction and it is a good idea to have multiple missiles in single silo

 

[trackwhack]

multiple missiles in single silo - ohio class submarine.

even i was not sure about having multiple missiles in single launch tube before; but after talking with saya and kunal biswas and other members on this forum, i am convinced that arihant is in right direction and it is a good idea to have multiple missiles in single silo

Thanks utube, but those are Cruise missiles, I am pretty certain. The Ohio class subs are both SSGN's and SSBN's. The SSBN can carry 24 Tridents. Are you certain they have a multiple ballistic missile per Silo configuration?

 

[utubekhiladi]

Thanks utube, but those are Cruise missiles, I am pretty certain. The Ohio class subs are both SSGN's and SSBN's. The SSBN can carry 24 Tridents. Are you certain they have a multiple ballistic missile per Silo configuration?

yes, ohio class can also carry like 2 or 3 under water launched ballistic missiles in a single launch tube (i am not sure exactly how many). and each missile may also be MIRV. (imagine the firepower of ohio class subs.. scary)

in any country this kind of information related to their submarine is classified and i don't have any pictures to represent it to you

 

[trackwhack]

yes, ohio class can also carry like 2 or 3 under water launched ballistic missiles in a single launch tube (i am not sure exactly how many). and each missile may also be MIRV. (imagine the firepower of ohio class subs.. scary)

in any country this kind of information related to their submarine is classified and i don't have any pictures to represent it to you

Thank you for clarifying sir.

The reason I was certain about US subs is that the Trident is their only SLBM in service. There are trials going on now for a new class of SLBM's. There were some videos of some secret tests off the West coast that surfaced last year.

Now the trident is so big that there is no way you can fit more than one into the Ohio's Silo. Unless they have inducted other SLBM's of lower range that could be fit into these subs.

I really just wish these guys complete the K 15 testing soon and commission it ASAP. Either way the Arihant will continue to be a test bed for a long time. Hopefully we can get the second SSBN commissioned within 6 years and hopefully that will have 12 silos instead of 4.

 

[utubekhiladi]

Thank you for clarifying sir.

The reason I was certain about US subs is that the Trident is their only SLBM in service. There are trials going on now for a new class of SLBM's. There were some videos of some secret tests off the West coast that surfaced last year.

Now the trident is so big that there is no way you can fit more than one into the Ohio's Silo. Unless they have inducted other SLBM's of lower range that could be fit into these subs.

I really just wish these guys complete the K 15 testing soon and commission it ASAP. Either way the Arihant will continue to be a test bed for a long time. Hopefully we can get the second SSBN commissioned within 6 years and hopefully that will have 12 silos instead of 4.

as far i know both k-4 and k-15 missiles are already tested and ready for induction; but now they might be re-testing this missiles with different hardware configurations and parameters. somebody please correct me if i am wrong.

from wikipedia

[[The development of the underwater missile launcher, known as Project 420, was completed in 2001 and handed over to the Indian Navy for trials. The missile launcher is developed at Hazira in Gujarat.

The missile(k-15 sagarika) was successfully test fired six times, and tested to its full range up to three times. The tests of February 26, 2008 was conducted from a submerged pontoon 50 metres (160 ft) beneath the surface off the coast of Visakhapatnam.

A land-based version of the K-15 Sagarika was successfully test-fired on November 12, 2008.

The Sagarika missile is being integrated with India's nuclear-powered Arihant class submarine that began sea trials on the 26 July 2009.

you can also double the source of the above claims at the bottom of the following page
Sagarika (missile) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The DRDO is developing a K-4 underwater-launched missile, which will have a range of 3,000 km. Developmental tests of the missile's gas-booster have taken place from a pontoon]]

there are reports that another 2-3 arihant class submarine is already in construction stage and we have plans to induct 5-8 of arihant class submarines by 2016-2020.

that is another good debate "should we modify our arihant class submarine to have 12 launch tubes or be happy with only 4 launch tube.?" it is a good debate topic

 

[trackwhack]

there are reports that another 2-3 arihant class submarine is already in construction stage and we have plans to induct 5-8 of arihant class submarines by 2016-2020.

that is another good debate "should we modify our arihant class submarine to have 12 launch tubes or be happy with only 4 launch tube.?" it is a good debate topic

dude, 8 SSBN's by 2020? stop yankin my chain mate C'mon, three commissioned SSBN's by 2020 is a reality. We dont have the funds or the infrastructure scale for more than that bro. Its not like an assembly line.

But if we do have 5 more being built by 2020, the 8 commissioned subs by 2025 is not impossible. now that would be a formidable force. Lets hope everything falls in place.

Regarding the number of silos, I am sure the Navy wont be happy with 4 and the next one will have a higher number. Wish there was someone who could confirm unofficially.

 

[utubekhiladi]

dude, 8 SSBN's by 2020? stop yankin my chain mate C'mon, three commissioned SSBN's by 2020 is a reality. We dont have the funds or the infrastructure scale for more than that bro. Its not like an assembly line.

But if we do have 5 more being built by 2020, the 8 commissioned subs by 2025 is not impossible. now that would be a formidable force. Lets hope everything falls in place.

8 arihant sub is ball number, it can be anywhere between 5-8 by end of 2020..

but you need to agree with me that another 2 arihant class sub is already in construction stage..

 

[trackwhack]

8 arihant sub is ball number, it can be anywhere between 5-8 by end of 2020..

but you need to agree with me that another 2 arihant class sub is already in construction stage..

Yes, one more under construction as reported in the media means at least 2 are probably under construction.

 

[sayareakd]

Is there any other sub in the world that can house more than one missile in one silo? This whole business of 12 K 15's in 4 launch silos seems implausible. Are they gonna fit 3 launch tubes per silo? Not very convincing and basic engineering and risk analysis would deter such a design.

Data for: Ohio-class submarines of cruise missile launchers after the transformation

Ohio-class submarines to complete transformation of the U.S. cruise missile contains miniature submarine loaded « Military of China, force comment.

 

[utubekhiladi]

Yes, one more under construction as reported in the media means at least 2 are probably under construction.

yes 2 in construction and 1 in sea trail.

 

[LurkerBaba]

afaik those are cruise missiles in a ballistic missile tube

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Data for: Ohio-class submarines of cruise missile launchers after the transformation

Ohio-class submarines to complete transformation of the U.S. cruise missile contains miniature submarine loaded � Military of China, force comment.

afaik those are cruise missiles in a ballistic missile tube

Not the same, They are modified tubes..

Same Upgrade Proposed for Virginia class..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[utubekhiladi]

is it k-15 simulation or k-4?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

is it k-15 simulation or k-4?

K15..