Indian nuclear submarines

[plugwater]

My Version is based on the Ideology of Indian Weapon manufacture..

Arihant reactor was based on Charlie`s reactor which is old, Making changes in middle of the reactor program may set all from beginning, therefore Arihant may be sailing on Old reactor, where new one is based on old one is now taking shape..

Arihant reactor is based on Akula-1 reactor design sir. We are assuming lot of things regarding ATV yet to get the clear picture.

 

[keshtopatel]

hi friends plz clear this confusion some say rector is n`t there while some say reactor is there but it is not fueled yet while other say rector is there it is fuelled but its not critical.

So what happens when nuclear reactor becomes critical also i have heard that since our designs is based on russian our rector won`t be critical more than 30% while american submarine nuclear rector are 80% critical

QUOTE:

The critical mass of a fissionable material depends upon its nuclear properties (e.g. the nuclear fission cross-section), its density, its shape, its enrichment, its purity, its temperature and its surroundings.

BARC has not come forward with unclassified material on Alpha particle emitters, supercriticality or subcriticality, hence we are groping in the dark on PWR´s inner working.

si i guess there are 3 opinions
A> no rector at all in Arihant ant yet to be installed

WRONG:

The land-based test reactor is exactly similar to the PWR that has been packed into Arihant's hull.

The land-based reactor and the PWR that has been packed into INS Arihant's hull are on a 1:1 scale (The Hindu, August 3, 2009)."

B> rector is installed in Arihant but it is yet to be fuelled

RIGHT:

As of September 6, 2010, the submarine had not completed its harbor trials and its nuclear reactor was yet to be fueled.

At the time of its launch, the submarine reactor was expected to be fueled and started in early 2010 following completion of harbor trials.

In an interview with The Hindu on September 2, Srikumar Banerjee, Chairman, Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) and Secretary, Department of Atomic Energy (DAE), said:

"Our nuclear steam supply system is ready 100 per cent. From our (DAE) side, everything is ready. We are only waiting for other systems to become operational so that we can start the commissioning activity of the reactor. I really do not know when the harbour trials will be done."

C>reactor is installed and it is fuelled but rector is not critical

Since reports indicate that INS Arihant is not fuelled - criticality should not be the issue here (it takes 4 weeks to reach criticality after loading the reactor (fuel rods).

 

[keshtopatel]

My Idea abt the matter is:

There are following test conducted on Sub where placement of reactor is very important..

1. Speed of the boat under water as well as surface..
2. Displacement of the boat on sea
3. what effects will be on sub while diving 300m also while surfacing..
Etc..

The news we are receiving on reactor may be a improved variant of the earlier one..

This kind of (full throttle) speed test is done when the sub leaves the Harbour and goes for Sea Acceptance Trial.

Arihant will be taken for a series of high-speed runs during the sea acceptance trials and its various components will be tested at different depths, temperatures and pressure.

The final phase of the trials will include weapon trials. During these trials actual firing of submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBM) will take place from the platform.

And we are still not over with HAT (Harbour Acceptance Trial).

 

[Kunal Biswas]

This kind of (full throttle) speed test is done when the sub leaves the Harbour and goes for Sea Acceptance Trial.
And we are still not over with HAT (Harbour Acceptance Trial).

Provide the link pls..

 

[keshtopatel]

My Version is based on the Ideology of Indian Weapon manufacture..

Arihant reactor was based on Charlie`s reactor which is old, Making changes in middle of the reactor program may set all from beginning, therefore Arihant may be sailing on Old reactor, where new one is based on old one is now taking shape..

Assumption is the mother of all the mess-ups!

 

[sayareakd]

i guess there are 3 opinions
A> no rector at all in Arihant ant yet to be installed
B> rector is installed in Arihant but it is yet to be fuelled
C>reactor is installed and it is fuelled but rector is not critical

check out INS Arhiant.

now check the land installed nuclear reactor on INS Arihant.

this is one of the complete section of sub which house nuclear reactor, now think how it is not possible to make sub in the first pic without installing entire system of the second pic (submarine section only). Therefore Option A no rector at all in Arihant ant yet to be installed is no longer feasible.

How we have left with last two options. Lets take the option B; rector is installed in Arihant but it is yet to be fuelled I read some where that for re fueling Arihant it require cutting open of haul of the sub only then the exercise can be undertaken.

here is the diagram of nuclear sub reactor. After going through and the first pic in this post it is highly unlikely that option B is the present position of ATV.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Nevermind!
.................

 

[keshtopatel]

Provide the link pls..

Sea worthiness certification comes after sea trials and you can not run the sub at full throttle at the harbour - this much is a common sense.

I am the link - talk to me or prove me wrong!

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Sea worthiness certification comes after sea trials and you can not run the sub at full throttle at the harbour - this much is a common sense.

I am the link - talk to me or prove me wrong!

U r the link!
Does Sea worthiness Certification comes through your supervison?

If u like to talk, And want to prove u r correct than u should back your statement with enough data to prove your worthy post or else:

Assumption is the mother of all the mess-ups!

Gud luck!

 

[keshtopatel]

Look at the small PWR and its control rods on the top!

Control rods are already present in the PWR, along with control rod drive mechanism, which inserts it or removes them.

What you have heard is probably refuelling of sub reactor after 10 years, after which the sub is ripped open, yes.

 

[keshtopatel]

Does Sea worthiness Certification comes through your supervison?

SWC comes after a sea trial - common sense - what link is required here?

If u like to talk, And want to prove u r correct than u should back your statement with enough data to prove your worthy post or else:

Its akin to, myself proving 2 plus 2 is four, which I am not going to do.

You should know more than that.

 

[Rama]

ins arihant has 190mw thermal rated light-water reactor producing 83mwe electrical power output

 

[keshtopatel]

ins arihant has 190mw thermal rated light-water reactor producing 83mwe electrical power output

120,000 horsepower that is.......

 

[sayareakd]

(continue from post No. 746)


that leave us with option C only, now please remember that we have not installed all the equipment for K15 and A3(SL) and its subsystems on the launch tubes.

all these things are dangerous and danger multiply many fold with running nuclear reactor on board, therefore the reactor is not made critical and the boat (sub) has been take out using secondary power source which are the batteries.

all this IMHO. (if someone want to correct me then i stand corrected).:happy_2:

 

[keshtopatel]

(continue from post No. 746)


that leave us with option C only, now please remember that we have not installed all the equipment for K15 and

A3(SL) and its subsystems on the launch tube

s.


all this IMHO. (if someone want to correct me then i stand corrected).:happy_2:

Agni III is long for Arihant to be launched.
As of now....

 

[nitesh]

we missed this piece I think...........

The Hindu : Opinion / Interviews : ‘In the event of a nuclear incident, victims must get prompt compensation'

It is a year since India's nuclear-powered submarine, Arihant, was launched. Has the Light Water Reactor (LWR), using enriched uranium as fuel, on board the submarine been started up?

Our nuclear steam supply system is ready 100 per cent. From our (DAE) side, everything is ready. We are only waiting for other systems to become operational so that we can start the commissioning activity of the reactor. I really do not know when the harbour trials will be done.

The Navy will need three or four nuclear-powered submarines for this arm to be a viable force. Will you build more LWRs for these submarines?

We are already doing that. I will not be able to tell you the number, but it is a fact that we are in that game. The next nuclear steam generating plants are getting ready for future applications.


Where will the enriched uranium for these boats come from? There is only one Rare Materials Plant at Ratnahalli, near Mysore, to produce enriched uranium. Will the proposed Special Material Enrichment Facility in Chitradurga district in Karnataka be helpful?

Chitradurga will come a little later, not immediately. Our Ratnahalli plant capacity has been enhanced. But more than that, there is significant improvement in our technology. Usually, a term called Separating Work Units (SWUs) defines the technology level that we have achieved in this, and I can assure you that there has been considerable improvement in SWUs of our next generation caskets of centrifuges. The separating capacity of our centrifuges has improved. So total capacity enhancement at Ratnahalli has been done. We are confident of supplying the entire fuel for the set of"¦.

You cannot say anymore that India does not have enrichment technology. India has its own technology and we can produce [enriched uranium]. We have not started doing it for large-scale commercial nuclear power stations, which require a much larger quantity of enriched uranium. We will be able to do that once we go to Chitradurga.

 

[Rama]

Originally posted by keshtopatel

120,000 horsepower that is......

Refer to Advanced Technology Vessel from Wikipedia, it states very clearly that the propulsion for INS Arihant uses a pressurized water reactor using 40% enriched uranium fuel producing 160-190MW ; one turbine (47,0000hp/70MW); one shaft; and one 7-bladed,high-skew propeller.

Also, refering to this site (Russia helps India build nuclear submarine - Bellona) regarding "Russia help India build nuclear Submarine". According to this article, it has stated that the "the hull of the submarine laid down in India are almost blueprints of the newest Russian attack submarine, the Severodvinsk-class, which is currently under the construction in Severodvinsk, Arkhange'sk County. Indian submarine reportedly will be outfitted with one PWR reactor with a power output of 190MW. The same machinery is placed on the Severodvinsk-class submarine".

It's clear the INS Arihant is almost the duplicate of Russia's Severodvinsk-class submarine.

 

[Rama]

Futher to my above post, it would be interesting to observe that America Ohio Class Trident Submarine which has 24 missle tubes has a nuclear reactor producing 60,000shp. If you look at the front portion of Arihant has shown on livefist blooger, it is almost an exact duplicate of the Ohio Class Submarine. It is my believe that INS Arihant is probably 40% smaller than the Ohio Class. It should also be noted that Russia's Severodvinsk-class submarine is almost completed in Rusia and should be at sea within a year. This probably accounts for the secrecy of INS Arihant has part of the deal with Rusia. Anyway time will tell...if I'm right.

For more illustration, refer to this book called " The Modern Submarine: The Undersea Weapons that Rule the Cceans Today" by David Miller

 

[sayareakd]

It should also be noted that Russia's Severodvinsk-class submarine is almost completed in Rusia and should be at sea within a year. This probably accounts for the secrecy of INS Arihant has part of the deal with Rusia. Anyway time will tell...if I'm right.

please explain what you meant by the above thanks.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Also, refering to this site (Russia helps India build nuclear submarine - Bellona) regarding "Russia help India build nuclear Submarine". According to this article, it has stated that the "the hull of the submarine laid down in India are almost blueprints of the newest Russian attack submarine, the Severodvinsk-class, which is currently under the construction in Severodvinsk, Arkhange'sk County. Indian submarine reportedly will be outfitted with one PWR reactor with a power output of 190MW. The same machinery is placed on the Severodvinsk-class submarine".

It's clear the INS Arihant is almost the duplicate of Russia's Severodvinsk-class submarine.

The info seems very doubtful, The article speaks of Russian patriotism..

Reason:
1. What are the possibilities of purchasing a nuclear reactor for nuclear submarine from Russia?!
2. Whats the use of Sea-trials when reactor is foreign and will be not installed on other sisters..
3. Arihant had a PWR using 40% enriched uranium fuel (80 MWe ) where Russian friends have One KPM type (OK-650B?) reactor 200 MW PWR..

Further Arihant displaced 5000-6000 with VLS, where Yasen is Displacing 5,800-7,700-9,500 surfaced and 11,800 submerged..
Though, Dimensions of both subs are similar..

http://en.rian.ru/images/15925/52/159255294.jpg
INS Arihant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Yasen class submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Russia helps India build nuclear submarine - Bellona
New generation nuclear submarine successfully launched in Russia, page 1