Indian nuclear submarines

[sayareakd]

Aridhaman very much exists. Its obviously smoke and mirrors. It was in the docks when an accident occured with the gates. Arighat is probably anpther sub that has been commissioned woth Arihant. The whole thing is to confuse the enemy.
We announced 1 when 2 were being built and the actual numbers will never be known. What is in INS Varsha will not be seen but we will give hints through vizag port images just as a warning. This is a game played by every country

Just want to tell we have more then whats actually told, one crew of one come resting, another submarine on its way to do deterrence patrol with live nukes.


Our nuclear deterrence, now has change from earlier seperated core, trigger & missile, to live nukes on hair trigger alert at #Arihant & soon to be deployed canister launch #Agni5. As Dr.Avinash Chander said our reply to nuke attack will come in minutes or hour, not in days.

 

[lcafanboy]

Does INS Aridhaman really exist or are you talking about INS Arighat?

Not only it exists it now has sister boat too albeit unnamed till now. INS Arihant s2 and arighat s3 both have 4 silos with 12 k15 missiles exclusively for porkistan. Ins aridhaman s4 with with 8 silos with 8 k4/5 missiles is exclusively for china and now what Modi has announced is aridhaman completing first patrol. We have arighat and now S4* unnamed with 12 silos with 12 k4/5 in trails. This completes our minimum requirement for TRIAD. If modi has announced completion of TRIAD it means we have at least 4 boomers in water already if not more. And add SSN ins chakra too we have at least 5 nuke babies out there to pounce on PIG of the west porkistan and LIZARD of the east china...

 

[porky_kicker]

Let me muse over this

Pre 2018 order

S2 - Arihant
S3 - Aridhaman
S4 - Arighat

.
.

Post 2018

S2 - Arihant
S4 - Arighat
S3 - Aridhaman

So after Arihant , Aridhaman was being built then suddenly news comes that Arighat is actually the next boat inline after Arihant. Aridhaman simply vanishes from the equation as per MSM media reports.


1. Arihant 4 tubes

2. Follow on to Arihant ie Aridhaman 8 tubes ( according to some 4 tubes )

3. Follow on to Aridhaman ie S-4 ( now Arighat ) 12 tubes ( according to some 8 tubes )

Considering if the above is true
Ie Aridhaman 8 (or 4 tubes) , Arighat 12 (or 8 tubes) as per pre 2018 info , why the heck did Aridhaman get jumped over by Arighat ?

One plausible reason according to me is

Somewhere down the line as Aridhaman construction was in works or close to be finished , the designers / manufacturers working on the design / construction of the next follow on SSBN Arighat with 12 ( or 8 tubes ) must have had gathered enough confidence with the Arighat construction to justify and take the risk of retrofitting the Aridhaman with additional tubes and bring it to the Arighat capability ie Aridhaman will have 12 SILOS , ( this no is as per my info for some it will be 8 silos either way makes no difference since no of Aridhaman silos = no of Arighat silos , I will let the reader choose what they want to believe either 12 or 8 )

So operationally Arighat got prioritised for launch while Aridhaman got delegated for retrofit to bring it at par with Arighat.

Arihant with 4 tubes was the first of its class so makes sense for the lesser no of tubes

But a follow on sub with 8 (or 4 ) tubes don't make any sense when the construction of the next follow on sub with 12 (or 8 ) is in the works already almost parallel construction. If confidence is high for the latest iteration then those changes can be back ported.

Retrofitting is easier in terms of complexity and costs if changes in Hull are made before the onboard reactor is switched on ie before launch

1. Aridhaman and Arighat share the base template of Arihant so whatever design changes are in Arighat can be implemented to ( older but then yet to be launched ) Aridhaman too.

2. Maximize capability , limited silos in Arihant can be forgiven. But at approx 3 billion dollars per boat and importantly with validated and implemented design on a newer boat it does not make sense if those capabilities are not retrofitted to earlier versions when the construction of the predecessor is yet to be completed.

Aridhaman and Arighat were being constructed almost simultaneously but Aridhaman was ahead initially ( so i believe later on Arighat got prioritised and Aridhaman construction got pushed back for the retrofit ie additional silo plugs same as Arighat )

All these happened ( if it happened ) much before 2018 .

Please note this is a personal view so reader discretion is advised and no point in fighting over it if anyone wants to , I ain't joining

 

[sayareakd]

I have counted 15 big tubes, so far............
4+4+1+8

 

[Enquirer]

Let me muse over this

Pre 2018 order

S2 - Arihant
S3 - Aridhaman
S4 - Arighat

.
.

Post 2018

S2 - Arihant
S4 - Arighat
S3 - Aridhaman

So after Arihant , Aridhaman was being built then suddenly news comes that Arighat is actually the next boat inline after Arihant. Aridhaman simply vanishes from the equation as per MSM media reports.


1. Arihant 4 tubes

2. Follow on to Arihant ie Aridhaman 8 tubes ( according to some 4 tubes )

3. Follow on to Aridhaman ie S-4 ( now Arighat ) 12 tubes ( according to some 8 tubes )

Considering if the above is true
Ie Aridhaman 8 (or 4 tubes) , Arighat 12 (or 8 tubes) as per pre 2018 info , why the heck did Aridhaman get jumped over by Arighat ?

One plausible reason according to me is

Somewhere down the line as Aridhaman construction was in works or close to be finished , the designers / manufacturers working on the design / construction of the next follow on SSBN Arighat with 12 ( or 8 tubes ) must have had gathered enough confidence with the Arighat construction to justify and take the risk of retrofitting the Aridhaman with additional tubes and bring it to the Arighat capability ie Aridhaman will have 12 SILOS , ( this no is as per my info for some it will be 8 silos either way makes no difference since no of Aridhaman silos = no of Arighat silos , I will let the reader choose what they want to believe either 12 or 8 )

So operationally Arighat got prioritised for launch while Aridhaman got delegated for retrofit to bring it at par with Arighat.

Arihant with 4 tubes was the first of its class so makes sense for the lesser no of tubes

But a follow on sub with 8 (or 4 ) tubes don't make any sense when the construction of the next follow on sub with 12 (or 8 ) is in the works already almost parallel construction. If confidence is high for the latest iteration then those changes can be back ported.

Retrofitting is easier in terms of complexity and costs if changes in Hull are made before the onboard reactor is switched on ie before launch

1. Aridhaman and Arighat share the base template of Arihant so whatever design changes are in Arighat can be implemented to ( older but then yet to be launched ) Aridhaman too.

2. Maximize capability , limited silos in Arihant can be forgiven. But at approx 3 billion dollars per boat and importantly with validated and implemented design on a newer boat it does not make sense if those capabilities are not retrofitted to earlier versions when the construction of the predecessor is yet to be completed.

Aridhaman and Arighat were being constructed almost simultaneously but Aridhaman was ahead initially ( so i believe later on Arighat got prioritised and Aridhaman construction got pushed back for the retrofit ie additional silo plugs same as Arighat )

All these happened ( if it happened ) much before 2018 .
Please note this is a personal view so reader discretion is advised and no point in fighting over it if anyone wants to , I ain't joining

Arighat is the same size as Arihant!

My take is that Aridhaman was always slated to be bigger than Arihant and supposedly the second nuclear sub, but a decision seems to have been made sometime back to build an Arihant's replica pending Aridhaman's design/development (which may have run into some delays).

Note that Aridhaman (with larger payload & size) might require bigger reactor (or 2 reactors of Arihant's size)

 

[sayareakd]

DFI Lite group conclude that INS Arihant went for deterrence patrol with K4 missile on board. Here proof.

 

[Enquirer]

DFI Lite group conclude that INS Arihant went for deterrence patrol with K4 missile on board. Here proof.

Are you sure?
From the shadows it doesn't appear like there's a K4 size missile in the tube!
It's more plausible that there's a Sagarika type missile on the left side. The other tubes are either empty or have 2 other Sagarikas!

If it indeed was a K4 then the shadow of the hatch would be distorted due to the single dome of K4. In the pic we can see that the curvature of the hatch's shadow is undistorted!

 

[sayareakd]

Are you sure?
From the shadows it doesn't appear like there's a K4 size missile in the tube!
It's more plausible that there's a Sagarika type missile on the left side. The other tubes are either empty or have 2 other Sagarikas!

If it indeed was a K4 then the shadow of the hatch would be distorted due to the single dome of K4. In the pic we can see that the curvature of the hatch's shadow is undistorted!

See missile is in the center of sub. Only one is visible.

Its like this

First two pics from left side.

If it was k4 then first pic from left, if k15 then second pic.

Hope this will explain you.

 

[Enquirer]

See missile is in the center of sub. Only one is visible.

Its like this
View attachment 29442 View attachment 29443

First two pics from left side.

If it was k4 then first pic from left, if k15 then second pic.

View attachment 29444

View attachment 29445

Hope this will explain you.

Actually it doesn't explain why you think it's K4!
How can you tell?
If single K4 missile occupied the entire/most-of tube diameter, then the shadow of the hatch will not be smooth/unbroken!
There's a spec of shadow on the left side of the tube, presumably because of the K-15 missile dome.

 

[sayareakd]

Actually it doesn't explain why you think it's K4!
How can you tell?
If single K4 missile occupied the entire/most-of tube diameter, then the shadow of the hatch will not be smooth/unbroken!
There's a spec of shadow on the left side of the tube, presumably because of the K-15 missile dome.

This pic will clear it. Missile is in center.

 

[Aaj ka hero]

View attachment 29446
View attachment 29447

This pic will clear it. Missile is in center.

What I am seeing is THREE EGGS, it is k-15s I think.
Correct me if it is k-4.

 

[sayareakd]

What I am seeing is THREE EGGS, it is k-15s I think.
Correct me if it is k-4.

One in the center. If you could see one in the center other two are not possible.
Please go through this thread and you will understand reason for the same.

https://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/k-15-sagarika-missile-slbm.47052/page-5

 

[power_monger]

A very good video on technologies associated with submarine.will give you idea on where we stand wrt designing our own ssk.

 

[Mikesingh]

Our nuclear deterrence, now has change from earlier seperated core, trigger & missile, to live nukes on hair trigger alert at #Arihant & soon to be deployed canister launch #Agni5. As Dr.Avinash Chander said our reply to nuke attack will come in minutes or hour, not in days.

Good! But they need to lay more emphasis on safety. Live nukes is like holding on to a grenade with the pin pulled out!! One false move and....Boooom!

 

[sayareakd]

Good! But they need to lay more emphasis on safety. Live nukes is like holding on to a grenade with the pin pulled out!! One false move and....Boooom!

Sir lot of fail safe, build into it, including altitude sensor. Even if fire happens, nuke should not explode. Good example is Russian Typhoon class, it meet with explosion, crew did not survive, but nuke remains intact.

 

[hit&run]

Good! But they need to lay more emphasis on safety. Live nukes is like holding on to a grenade with the pin pulled out!! One false move and....Boooom!

Having a Submarine with a nuclear reactor is incidental. It is 'safely carrying nukes' capability around which everything is envisaged and then built.

The Deterrence patrol itself is the synonym of Nuke Saftey; having sustainable and robust multiple fail-safe modules, otherwise, it will be called as a 'one-off' launch mission.

 

[cyclops]

Q. At what stage is the plan to build indige- nous nuclear-powered attack submarines?

We are looking at six SSNs (Nuclear- Powered Attack Submarines). It is part of the 30-year submarine building plan (to build 24 submarines, 18 conventional and 6 nuclear). It is at a design stage. The launch of the first SSN is over 10 years away.

https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/...region-admiral-sunil-lanba-1388904-2018-11-17

 

[sayareakd]

Q. At what stage is the plan to build indige- nous nuclear-powered attack submarines?

We are looking at six SSNs (Nuclear- Powered Attack Submarines). It is part of the 30-year submarine building plan (to build 24 submarines, 18 conventional and 6 nuclear). It is at a design stage. The launch of the first SSN is over 10 years away.

https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/...region-admiral-sunil-lanba-1388904-2018-11-17

We are taking our own sweet time.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Q. At what stage is the plan to build indige- nous nuclear-powered attack submarines?

We are looking at six SSNs (Nuclear- Powered Attack Submarines). It is part of the 30-year submarine building plan (to build 24 submarines, 18 conventional and 6 nuclear). It is at a design stage. The launch of the first SSN is over 10 years away.

https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/...region-admiral-sunil-lanba-1388904-2018-11-17

For all practical purposes, Arihant itself is a SSN which is branded as SSBN. Arihant has the small weight of SSN, launches small precision missile like SSN and in 1999 it was abruptly changed to be SSBN from SSN without citing any reason.

This so called SSN is just a hogwash. Also, we are in a phase of induction of submarines every year 1 SSK and 1 SSn/SSBN. So, 10+ year will mean that India will hae to produce 10+ Arihant class submarine by that time which again is not feasble

 

[Indx TechStyle]

For all practical purposes, Arihant itself is a SSN which is branded as SSBN. Arihant has the small weight of SSN, launches small precision missile like SSN and in 1999 it was abruptly changed to be SSBN from SSN without citing any reason.

This so called SSN is just a hogwash. Also, we are in a phase of induction of submarines every year 1 SSK and 1 SSn/SSBN. So, 10+ year will mean that India will hae to produce 10+ Arihant class submarine by that time which again is not feasble

Even inducting 24-25 submarines will be impressive. Still, its a fraction of submarine fleets of US, Russia & PRC.