Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Blademaster]

I like his sense of gallows humor.

 

[Love Charger]

We need aircraft carriers , period we need them
Every succesfull navy in modern history has operated carriers, including ours .
We need to go old school method,aka royal navy method we don't need large super carriers, ours job can be done by 3 more similar vikrant class ships along with their support ships .
IOR is huge , 4 vikrant class ships including the present one along with vikramaditya amd we are good for next 45 years .

 

[omaebakabaka]

Still we shouldn't read much into this stuff. It could just be that situation in USN is being overblown in the media to secure funding for DDG(X) or maybe even to extend production run of Flight III AB class.

US is being hollowed out for sure, if they don't come out decisively ahead in Russia-Ukraine -NATO confrontation, then its safe to say US will lose its influence rapidly and with it USN will also get impacted. PLN will certainly take advantage knowing the Chinese....India needs numbers especially destroyers and 3 to 4 carriers in next 2 decades in surface fleet. Its great that they laid good number of corvettes at same time this week.

 

[Blademaster]

We need aircraft carriers , period we need them
Every succesfull navy in modern history has operated carriers, including ours .
We need to go old school method,aka royal navy method we don't need large super carriers, ours job can be done by 3 more similar vikrant class ships along with their support ships .
IOR is huge , 4 vikrant class ships including the present one along with vikramaditya amd we are good for next 45 years .

Please check my post regarding this:

Indian Naval Aviation

This plane is confirmed to get the Uttam AESA radar, HAL Mission computer, Astra missile, Litening pod, Griffin LGB, and BEL SDR. I hope that it gets the radar planned for the MWF, along with its IRST (if developed on time for the upgrade), D-29 EW suite, Brahmos NG, and all other planned...

defenceforumindia.com

 

[abingdonboy]

Why so long? That means no improvements at all over the P15Bs

Hardly. P17A build time is 50-60 months and they are being delivered on time and on budget. Some of the P-15Bs have almost double the build times for almost identical final specifications, yet again another gift from India’s iron brother Russia

 

[abingdonboy]

When addressing how Nilgiri or any IN ship will do against type 55, once can't treat it as some MMA match where it's 1v1 in the ring. The IN as a whole will need to be looked at comprehensively, against what the PLAN can bring to the IOR, keeping the geography and chokepoints of the Indian Ocean in mind.

Many members have already explained how these ships are network centric, where all the ships can share sensor data and target tracking data in real time with each other. For example, if 3 nilgiri class ships are there in a wide area, they essentially act as one ship with 3 sensors at different locations, with a total of 24 Brahmos and 96 Barak 8.

Second factor is the location of the fight. It will most probably be near the Malacca strait if there's a war, so it's well within air cover and surveillance cover from the A&N islands. The Air power India can bring to this chokepoint is tremendous, and neither the PLAN nor PLAAF have an answer for that. The numerical advantage of the PLAN also diminishes due to this factor, since if they try to rush their ships into the IOR through Malacca, it will be easy pickings for our aircraft and submarines.

Let us assume that some PLAN ships make it through Malacca and come deeper into the IOR. All the relevant trade routes in IOR are close to our coast and are again within striking range of our aircraft. So the PLAN is stuck at the outer edges of the IOR outside our aircrafts reach, from where they can accomplish nothing against India, and will be running low on fuel and food anyway.

India needs to step up it's air and missile presence in A&N, and build large numbers of frigates and destroyers that are networked together and spread out, instead of fewer cruiser sized destroyers like type 55. SSNs would also be a huge benefit of course.

The worry about having so few SAM is salvo attack and the threat of being overwhelmed. If you have a target coming in you don’t fire just 1 missile. So a P17A/P-15B could see itself depleting its entire long range AD complement by a single salvo attack of 8-10 AShM, it’s then effectively defenceless. So your point about having to go everywhere in packs pretty much defeats the savings of fitting fewer VLS to begin with

penny wise, pound foolish.

 

[abingdonboy]

Yes this is the right perspective. Future is network centric warfare. That's why assets such as p8i are very important.

Also important to remember that our frigates will have mh60r Romeo too as an attack counterpart besides onboard anti ship capacity. Which can use potent anti ship missiles like NSM and use light torpedoes on there own multiple times with reload.

Then we have air launched anti-ship capabilities with mig29k + kh35 , su30mki+ bramhos, rafale + exocet , jaguar+ harpoons , p8i+ harpoons in the arsenal too to wreck havoc on enemy fleet. Later mk2 will carry bramhos ng.

One has to remember what PLAN can actually field in Indian Ocean which rules out all there Corvettes and older frigates ( too small range) and most of their SSK ( any ssk without aip won't survive such a long journey).

So only some of their latest frigates and destroyer and SSN can be of actual use against India. But then these are the same assets they have to field against Japan usa and Taiwan and even in SCS against Vietnam and Indonesia and Phillipines.

So I wonder what can they actually bring to fight at all !!

Also to note that USA and Japan will be more than happy to help india identify and track chinese submarines ( already sensor network is being placed in IOR).

Then there is questions of fleet availability. Major naval ships are known for bad availability rates for all countries and Chinese ships with russian and Chinese origin engines will have much worse availablity rate. So even less ships to field.

Then the question of fuel and ammunition in IOR.

No country in asean is foolish enough to provide Chinese with aid in attacking India during active war since that will invite Indian attack on their facilities. And if chinese rely on mere tankers god save them !!

That's why I have always said that chinese are in no position to mount any serious military campaign for atleast next 20 years untill they sort out all above issues and break through first and second island chain.

So we should utilise these 20 years to develop crucial domestic capabilities like SSN and SSGN and indegenous SSK .

Secondly we need to increase numbers of SAM and SSM by using vlsam and desi SSMs currently in development. Put a universal launcher and increase the numbers.

Andmaan needs to be fortified with offensive capabilities and should be a fuel and birth station for friendly navies of France and usa.

PLAN built their first overseas base in the IOR for a reason, they have basing rights in SL, PK and soon BD and Mynamar, it is incredible hubris to claim the PLAN will need >20 years to field significant force levels in the IOR when they have undertaken the largest naval buildup since WW2 of any nation on the planet. They aren’t doing this just for bragging rights

Why baffles me is that the IN/GoI have not made it a national mission to build up A&N, it seems they are more worried about antagonising the tiny nations around the Andaman sea. A&N should be India’s trump card if it wants to maintain sea control of IOR against PLAN, it should have major ASW infrastructure as well as PERMANENT assets of its own from aircraft to ships not just whatever ENC thinks it can spare. During the aftermath of MH370 the IN revealed they didn’t even have primary search radar coverage beyond a few dozen KM from port Blair, I find it hard to believe much has changed in the last 8 years

 

[nongaddarliberal]

The worry about having so few SAM is salvo attack and the threat of being overwhelmed. If you have a target coming in you don’t fire just 1 missile. So a P17A/P-15B could see itself depleting its entire long range AD complement by a single salvo attack of 8-10 AShM, it’s then effectively defenceless. So your point about having to go everywhere in packs pretty much defeats the savings of fitting fewer VLS to begin with

penny wise, pound foolish.

I never said I'm satisfied with the small number of VLS on our ships. I was putting into context the debate about Nilgiri or Kolkata vs Type 55 and why 1v1 comparisons aren't useful. I would be delighted if we built 80-90 cell ships eventually, and in decent numbers under a standardized design.

 

[binayak95]

PLAN built their first overseas base in the IOR for a reason, they have basing rights in SL, PK and soon BD and Mynamar, it is incredible hubris to claim the PLAN will need >20 years to field significant force levels in the IOR when they have undertaken the largest naval buildup since WW2 of any nation on the planet. They aren’t doing this just for bragging rights

Why baffles me is that the IN/GoI have not made it a national mission to build up A&N, it seems they are more worried about antagonising the tiny nations around the Andaman sea. A&N should be India’s trump card if it wants to maintain sea control of IOR against PLAN, it should have major ASW infrastructure as well as PERMANENT assets of its own from aircraft to ships not just whatever ENC thinks it can spare. During the aftermath of MH370 the IN revealed they didn’t even have primary search radar coverage beyond a few dozen KM from port Blair, I find it hard to believe much has changed in the last 8 years

A&N is pretty built up if you ask me
It hosts a sizable shore defense missile batteries, has decent harbour infra, and hosts 3 airfields capable of supporting heavy hitters.

 

[abingdonboy]

A&N is pretty built up if you ask me
It hosts a sizable shore defense missile batteries, has decent harbour infra, and hosts 3 airfields capable of supporting heavy hitters.

It still has to rely on loaned assets from ENC/EAC. It isn’t a full fledged command in its own right (even if it might be on paper).

ANC should be able to impose sea control within >300km of it. Afaik all they have are some OPVs (that too the legacy ones) and LSTs. They should also be hosting MPAs permanently and strike assets, again when this happens it is only done on a detachment basis and in limited numbers.

I’m not even sure their AD is strong enough to prevent a conventional strike by PLAN or attempt to land troops on some of the islands. I believe the Chinese have in recent years started to claim A&N?

 

[Love Charger]

It still has to rely on loaned assets from ENC/EAC. It isn’t a full fledged command in its own right (even if it might be on paper).

ANC should be able to impose sea control within >300km of it. Afaik all they have are some OPVs (that too the legacy ones) and LSTs. They should also be hosting MPAs permanently and strike assets, again when this happens it is only done on a detachment basis and in limited numbers.

I’m not even sure their AD is strong enough to prevent a conventional strike by PLAN or attempt to land troops on some of the islands. I believe the Chinese have in recent years started to claim A&N?

Indian military doesn't even enjoys overwhelming conventional superiority against pak , and here we think we will handle Chinese just like that.
Can Indian military devastate pakistani aerial capabilities? Quickly with help of missile strikes amd other measures, can we destroy pakistani cruise missile stockpiles , do we have enough equipment to suffer inevitable attrition damage in event of War like Russia?
I guess answer to all these questions is in negative, so keep calm like iam doing .
Even if we fight just pakkstan , it will ve a blood bath unless we go all out against them.
Still there is a remote chance of stalemate which basically means victory of pakistan.

Leave China away for some time.

 

[jai jaganath]

Indian military doesn't even enjoys overwhelming conventional superiority against pak , and here we think we will handle Chinese just like that.
Can Indian military devastate pakistani aerial capabilities? Quickly with help of missile strikes amd other measures, can we destroy pakistani cruise missile stockpiles , do we have enough equipment to suffer inevitable attrition damage in event of War like Russia?
I guess answer to all these questions is in negative, so keep calm like iam doing .
Even if we fight just pakkstan , it will ve a blood bath unless we go all out against them.
Still there is a remote chance of stalemate which basically means victory of pakistan.

Leave China away for some time.

Exactly bro
Until now we haven't reached the capability to come victorious against Pakistan
Our conventional capability is much behind if we compare it to our economy
Pakistan still have capability to make us suffer
So we here are atleast realistic and practical as we can openly discuss about our infinite capability gaps
But those guys in sm their claims are light years ahead of reality
Even here we have members who float in optimism
When situation against a failed nation is so poor then just imagine the against a giant China who is being treated as enemy recently they are way beyond our capability
So as u said we can stay quiet and sit as nothing is gonna change as we have same retarded bureaucrats and politicians for past 75 years and the system will not go in next 75 years also
We have to bear the pain of our inefficiency in many ways

 

[Love Charger]

Exactly bro
Until now we haven't reached the capability to come victorious against Pakistan
Our conventional capability is much behind if we compare it to our economy
Pakistan still have capability to make us suffer
So we here are atleast realistic and practical as we can openly discuss about our infinite capability gaps
But those guys in sm their claims are light years ahead of reality
Even here we have members who float in optimism
When situation against a failed nation is so poor then just imagine the against a giant China who is being treated as enemy recently they are way beyond our capability
So as u said we can stay quiet and sit as nothing is gonna change as we have same retarded bureaucrats and politicians for past 75 years and the system will not go in next 75 years also
We have to bear the pain of our inefficiency in many ways

Galtiyon ka hisab kisi pusht ko to chukana hi hota hai .
Hosakta wo pusht humari houn

 

[Love Charger]

Additional forces are now being pulled to the front from both sides, and the organization of logistics is of great importance. The speed of putting the reserves into action will determine the further success of the parties.

The Armed Forces of Ukraine, of course, will strive to capture Kupyansk and cut off Izyum, supplementing this with strikes from the Izyum and Slavic directions.

The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation will strive to ensure the defense of Kupyansk and stable communication with Izyum, if possible, trying to move on to pushing the enemy to the west.

Galat thread hai ye

 

[vampyrbladez]

Galat thread hai ye

Gone in 60 seconds.....

 

[Love Charger]

Gone in 60 seconds.....

Saagho saagho

 

[jai jaganath]

Galtiyon ka hisab kisi pusht ko to chukana hi hota hai .
Hosakta wo pusht humari houn

Chukane ki bat toh alag hai
Par chiz hamari taraf bhi nahi hai nahi unke taraf par porki keliye survive karna hi victory hoga par hamare liye challenge badi hai
Chini ki toh bat hi mat karo chiz hamesha unke taraf hi rahe gi

 

[IndianHawk]

PLAN built their first overseas base in the IOR for a reason, they have basing rights in SL, PK and soon BD and Mynamar, it is incredible hubris to claim the PLAN will need >20 years to field significant force levels in the IOR when they have undertaken the largest naval buildup since WW2 of any nation on the planet. They aren’t doing this just for bragging rights

Why baffles me is that the IN/GoI have not made it a national mission to build up A&N, it seems they are more worried about antagonising the tiny nations around the Andaman sea. A&N should be India’s trump card if it wants to maintain sea control of IOR against PLAN, it should have major ASW infrastructure as well as PERMANENT assets of its own from aircraft to ships not just whatever ENC thinks it can spare. During the aftermath of MH370 the IN revealed they didn’t even have primary search radar coverage beyond a few dozen KM from port Blair, I find it hard to believe much has changed in the last 8 years

Do not confuse birthing rights in peacetime with active war situations. It's one thing for Sri Lanka to host a chinese ship in peacetime and completely another to allows Lanka port to be used in active war against India that will invite an Indian attack on their port. Other then porkies no one in entire asia is foolish enough to do that.

All these ports around India will be sitting ducks in a war since India can at will destroy there birthing facilities .

Current chinese force levels are not enough for them to push USA out of Taiwan straits and break out of second Island chain. It will be a long time when they will be a challenge in Indian Ocean.

 

[Blademaster]

It still has to rely on loaned assets from ENC/EAC. It isn’t a full fledged command in its own right (even if it might be on paper).

ANC should be able to impose sea control within >300km of it. Afaik all they have are some OPVs (that too the legacy ones) and LSTs. They should also be hosting MPAs permanently and strike assets, again when this happens it is only done on a detachment basis and in limited numbers.

I’m not even sure their AD is strong enough to prevent a conventional strike by PLAN or attempt to land troops on some of the islands. I believe the Chinese have in recent years started to claim A&N?

You have to consider the logistical constraints of the A&N islands. For one thing, enough fuel and water. You cannot station too much men or industry on A&N if you do not want to overwhelm the A&N freshwater replenishment rate. As for fuel, it cost more to bring fuel to the A&N because it does not have major ports or major fuel storage or refineries.

 

[abingdonboy]

Indian military doesn't even enjoys overwhelming conventional superiority against pak , and here we think we will handle Chinese just like that.
Can Indian military devastate pakistani aerial capabilities? Quickly with help of missile strikes amd other measures, can we destroy pakistani cruise missile stockpiles , do we have enough equipment to suffer inevitable attrition damage in event of War like Russia?
I guess answer to all these questions is in negative, so keep calm like iam doing .
Even if we fight just pakkstan , it will ve a blood bath unless we go all out against them.
Still there is a remote chance of stalemate which basically means victory of pakistan.

Leave China away for some time.

India has enough to overwhelm Pakistan only during an all out war and if india doesn’t have to worry about China opening up another front to the east.

India spends more on pensions than Pakistan does on CAPEX, for the last 10 years Indian defence as a %of GDP has been in decline and the result is india is militarily very weak for its economic size