Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[blackleaf]

The problem is less of the platform, but the weapons. Will we be able to integrate our existing IN weapon systems on to it or for that matter the BrahMos. If no, then its a non starter.

Will France allow India to integrate BrahMos or Astra onto the Rafale? Has any work on this been done?

 

[Wisemarko]

I can't imagine that it would allow Indian F-18s to be armed with nukes.

Do you want to arm them with nukes! BTW know that F-16 have been hardened to fire nukes by "certain" nations. Don't need help from US for that.

Turkey is a NATO member so the rules are different from them.

That's not how it works! Turkey is using F-16 against another NATO member Greece in offensive mode.

I don't know what restrictions the US would demand on Indian F-18s but they would probably be arduous

If you don't know then stop assuming nonsense.

wanted assurances that an amphibious transport dock like INS Jalashwa wouldn't be used for offensive purposes

Do MH-60R, M-777, Apache or whatever recently brought have such offense related restrictions? No. Then why in good world, pick on some old ship and harp on?

 

[Wisemarko]

How about this one?

More Harm than Good? The Economic Assessment Clause and Canadian Defence Procurement - Canadian Global Affairs Institute

Any military fan here in Canada knows how, under so-called "harmony brotherhood", Canada armed forces are so fed up w/ US predators. And I'm NOT just talking about 1st-line weapons...

Like so many things else, it's a strategic decision that Canada has to be "attached" to MIC of US. But first thing you be honest to your own country interest is that: you are NOT blind to how you have been treated.

2nd thing 2nd is: you have to give US the credit that they may be the world number one in making strategic benefit from this weapon+geopolitics game...

Our neighbors have special relationship with us. They always blame us for everything and yet can't live without us. Airbus mooched Bombardier by buying A220 for a dollar and Gripen almost sold their small jets using rift between Boeing and Canada! Now senses have prevailed and we are back to F-35, P-8 and more business.

 

[OFBkaRakhwala]

Do MH-60R, M-777, Apache or whatever recently brought have such offense related restrictions

These platforms come under the category where no other good alternative is available, so the forces get them to fill their gaps. Rest continue.

 

[Adm Kenobi]

1. Rafale M/SH in IN service aren't meant to deliver nukes, IN doesn't have the responsibility of nuclear delivery with the help of aircrafts, that's IAF.

2. Even the 36 IAF Rafales haven't been cleared for nuclear delivery, it's just Jag, M2K, MKI. SFC is not involved to begin with,

3. Integrating BrahMos?? Rafale or SH can't take a BrahMos-A & NG is half a decade away, neither has Dassault agreed to integrate Indian missiles with IAF Rafale, still negotiating/ice box

4. Jalashwa can be used for offensive purposes, given India wasn't the one to declare the war (1st).
P-8I & MH-60R had no such clause, those 2 aircrafts are very important ASW assets, GoI didn't hesitate to buy those, "why?" Because relations are volatile, they change. US-India relations are good rn, "what about the future?" Relations with US can sour, & France wouldn't be an exception in that mind you, that's why we are developing capacity & capability in-house. Buying from US is no different from buying French equipments.

5. Take this India×US×France relations to some other thread now, geopolitical relations/assumptions can be discussed somewhere else, need not be discussed in the thread for IN development & discussions.

 

[johnj]

1. Rafale M/SH in IN service aren't meant to deliver nukes, IN doesn't have the responsibility of nuclear delivery with the help of aircrafts, that's IAF.
4. Jalashwa can be used for offensive purposes, given India wasn't the one to declare the war (1st).
P-8I & MH-60R had no such clause, those 2 aircrafts are very important ASW assets, GoI didn't hesitate to buy those, "why?" Because relations are volatile, they change. US-India relations are good rn, "what about the future?" Relations with US can sour, & France wouldn't be an exception in that mind you, that's why we are developing capacity & capability in-house. Buying from US is no different from buying French equipments.

5. Take this India×US×France relations to some other thread now, geopolitical relations/assumptions can be discussed somewhere else, need not be discussed in the thread for IN development & discussions.

1. SSBN. Dhanush missile.
2.Jalashwa can be used for offensive purposes, like we can buy billions of $ worth of Russian equipment, can nuke any country, can trade nuke tech with Iran, NK, can build ICBM and can nuke US, nothing is impossible, but why, Jalashwa can n't use in any military role, both in offensive and defensive under Indo-US agreement.
Till date relations with France is great, but with US, its worse, a nightmare. P8 brought by GoI to make US happy, MH-60R brought becz it is best in the class, less expensive, share common elements with P8I, and both are defensive platform, not offensive, like SAM. Buying from France & US is very different, from France - expensive, zero sanctions, steady supply of spare and parts.
3.Since its IN thread. relations with US, French is very relevant, they consider all before making a choice.

 

[Marliii]

1. SSBN. Dhanush missile.
2.Jalashwa can be used for offensive purposes, like we can buy billions of $ worth of Russian equipment, can nuke any country, can trade nuke tech with Iran, NK, can build ICBM and can nuke US, nothing is impossible, but why, Jalashwa can n't use in any military role, both in offensive and defensive under Indo-US agreement.
Till date relations with France is great, but with US, its worse, a nightmare. P8 brought by GoI to make US happy, MH-60R brought becz it is best in the class, less expensive, share common elements with P8I, and both are defensive platform, not offensive, like SAM. Buying from France & US is very different, from France - expensive, zero sanctions, steady supply of spare and parts.
3.Since its IN thread. relations with US, French is very relevant, they consider all before making a choice.

How is p8 an defensive platform ? Its how use a weapon

 

[johnj]

How is p8 an defensive platform ? Its how use a weapon

P8, like P3 search, identify and destroy subs and ships in friendly/non-hostile zone, just defensive.
Offensive- sending a CBG or fleet or subs to attack enemy in their home, in here MH 60R search, identify and destroy subs which posses a threat to friendly ships.
P8 equipped with harpoon AShM, Mark54 light torpedos and Radar, MAD, sonobuoys to use a weapon.[I'm not a weapons operator in P8]

 

[Marliii]

P8, like P3 search, identify and destroy subs and ships in friendly/non-hostile zone, just defensive.
Offensive- sending a CBG or fleet or subs to attack enemy in their home, in here MH 60R search, identify and destroy subs which posses a threat to friendly ships.
P8 equipped with harpoon AShM, Mark54 light torpedos and Radar, MAD, sonobuoys to use a weapon.[I'm not a weapons operator in P8]

That's a massive generalisation .CBGs can be used defensively too and p8 can hunt subs in hostile enemy airspace too if they have friendly air units supporting them.you can't characterise weapons into offense or defence in the modern warfare now even SAMs can be used offensively to knock enemy air units out in their own sky

 

[johnj]

That's a massive generalisation .CBGs can be used defensively too and p8 can hunt subs in hostile enemy airspace too if they have friendly air units supporting them.you can't characterise weapons into offense or defence in the modern warfare now even SAMs can be used offensively to knock enemy air units out in their own sky

That is why I used the term ''non-hostile zone'' but it is irrelevant becz enemy subs is near to our zone, but we can search their non-hostile zone, neutralize zone. CBG having two purpose, defensive and offensive, escort ships, helios, subs provide defensive and carrier provide offensive. also AEW provide support.
The main logic is, ''friendly air units supporting them'' can do better anti ship role, and navy need all P8 searching for enemy subs in friendly zone, before they initialize an attack, P8 provide rapid response.
CBG can't deploy majority of jet at once, but airbase can. Also it is not wise to send a 2/3 sqn of jets for protecting ASW aircraft, when they needed to defend land/sea bases.[Once enemy air assets/SAM etc gets neutralize AEW,ASW can enter enemy air space.

 

[Adm Kenobi]

1. SSBN. Dhanush missile.
2.Jalashwa can be used for offensive purposes, like we can buy billions of $ worth of Russian equipment, can nuke any country, can trade nuke tech with Iran, NK, can build ICBM and can nuke US, nothing is impossible, but why, Jalashwa can n't use in any military role, both in offensive and defensive under Indo-US agreement.
Till date relations with France is great, but with US, its worse, a nightmare. P8 brought by GoI to make US happy, MH-60R brought becz it is best in the class, less expensive, share common elements with P8I, and both are defensive platform, not offensive, like SAM. Buying from France & US is very different, from France - expensive, zero sanctions, steady supply of spare and parts.
3.Since its IN thread. relations with US, French is very relevant, they consider all before making a choice.

1. Ah yes, OPVs/DD & SSBN are aircrafts ✅️

2. Poor argument, & wrong.

 

[blackleaf]

Do you want to arm them with nukes! BTW know that F-16 have been hardened to fire nukes by "certain" nations. Don't need help from US for that.

But would the US continue supplying F18s or F21s to India or supporting Indian F18s if they were modified for a nuclear role?

The navy ones no but for the air force yes.
The air force needs a fighter for it's nuclear delivery role and the French are fine with Indian Rafales carrying nukes. They even use their own Rafales in a similar role. This was probably one of the reasons for choosing the Rafale.

It then comes down to whether it makes sense for the Indian navy to fly a jet that is not in service in the air force. The Indian military is already a zoo where fighters are concerned with so many different types from different countries.
Choosing the Rafale would allow the navy and air force to share resources which might make maintenance cheaper.

However if used F18s can be had at a reasonable prince then it might be worth the inconvenience of adding another fighter to the zoo.

 

[anirban8]

Will France allow India to integrate BrahMos or Astra onto the Rafale? Has any work on this been done?

Don't know will have to see what new things the ISE standard brings in guess will have to wait and see, but still, I would prefer to buy aircraft from France at least they haven't blocked our spare supply till date. Rest depends on the navy if they come to the conclusion that F 18 is the superior platform then go ahead buy it sure.

 

[WolfPack86]

Tejas MK2 Fund Crunch,F/A-18 Navy

 

[Butter Chicken]

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars do you knew that in 2012 During a exercise near the Andamans a Indian Russian Made Diesel Submarine not just remained undetected but also detected a Amerikan Improved Los angelse class submarine but also got a lock on target on it's.

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars

And most of the time in the Malabar Exercise we sunk every Amerikan Submarine that participates.

The Back in 2015, Indian Navys Russian built Kilo.class diesel electric attack submarines managed to sink a nuclear-powered U.S. Navy Los Angeles.class attack submarine during exercises in October. The Indian submarine INS Sindhudhvaj S56 allegedly killed USS City of Corpus Christi SSN 705 during an exercise called Malabar that is held annually between India, Japan, and the United States several years back.

The submarines were assigned to track each other down in the Bay of Bengal. The way it happens is that the Sindhudhvaj recorded the Hydrophonic Effect HE simply put, underwater noise of the nuclear powered submarine and managed to positively identify it before locking on to it. Being an exercise what did not happen was the firing. The Indian vessel then sank USS City of Corpus Christi using 533mm torpedoes.

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

Ya'll Nibbiars

And most of the time in the Malabar Exercise we sunk every Amerikan Submarine that participates.

The Back in 2015, Indian Navys Russian built Kilo.class diesel electric attack submarines managed to sink a nuclear-powered U.S. Navy Los Angeles.class attack submarine during exercises in October. The Indian submarine INS Sindhudhvaj S56 allegedly killed USS City of Corpus Christi SSN 705 during an exercise called Malabar that is held annually between India, Japan, and the United States several years back.

The submarines were assigned to track each other down in the Bay of Bengal. The way it happens is that the Sindhudhvaj recorded the Hydrophonic Effect HE simply put, underwater noise of the nuclear powered submarine and managed to positively identify it before locking on to it. Being an exercise what did not happen was the firing. The Indian vessel then sank USS City of Corpus Christi using 533mm torpedoes.

Any link to such a news?

 

[Bhaubai]

Astra on FA- 18 lessgoooo

 

[SKC]

Ya'll Nibbiars

And most of the time in the Malabar Exercise we sunk every Amerikan Submarine that participates.

The Back in 2015, Indian Navys Russian built Kilo.class diesel electric attack submarines managed to sink a nuclear-powered U.S. Navy Los Angeles.class attack submarine during exercises in October. The Indian submarine INS Sindhudhvaj S56 allegedly killed USS City of Corpus Christi SSN 705 during an exercise called Malabar that is held annually between India, Japan, and the United States several years back.

The submarines were assigned to track each other down in the Bay of Bengal. The way it happens is that the Sindhudhvaj recorded the Hydrophonic Effect HE simply put, underwater noise of the nuclear powered submarine and managed to positively identify it before locking on to it. Being an exercise what did not happen was the firing. The Indian vessel then sank USS City of Corpus Christi using 533mm torpedoes.

I have heard about these incidents in various exercises where US vessels or aircraft gets locked on frequently.

However US forces work with minimum deterrence in these excursuses and purposely allow them to get locked on.