Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

Super Flanker

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Not all countries can afford to put 64 missiles on each boat. Advanced missiles are expensive and they have a limited shelf life. So from a logistics point of view it may not be necessary to put up 64 missiles nor it may be desirable to do so.
Indian Navy doesn't need to have as many missiles in it's ships as it's Chinese counterparts.

Indian Navy's sole purpose against PLAN is to protect IOR from PLAN. In a war, there are 2 main forces, one is defensive and the other is offensive and it has been proven several times in the past that the offensive force has to allocate more assets than the Defensive force.

Our current number of VLS in our ships for Defence against the Chinese Navy is enough.

But I would say that we should definitely try and atleast build ships of 7500-8000 tons displacement and make them have atleast 48 VLSs in them. This will Prove to be good for the IN from my POV against PLAN. IN already has the Complete edge against Pakistan Navy, now we need to focus more on countering Chinese Navy.
 

johnj

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Can some one explain regarding this particular mystery.

Both Vishakhapatnam class and Type-05D displaces similar tonnage but ours has only 32 VLS and the Chinese one has 64 VLS. The question arises

1. Either the design is inefficient in terms of utility of space.
2. Navy doctrine influence
3. Since Indian Navy have limited budget they may add the additional VLS systems during refit in future.

Some one shed light on this.
From wiki.
Type 052D - 64 vls for SAM, AShM & ASW
Vishakhapatnam class - 32 + 16 = 48 vls for SAM, AShM and no ASW available.
 

johnj

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Indian Navy doesn't need to have as many missiles in it's ships as it's Chinese counterparts.

Indian Navy's sole purpose against PLAN is to protect IOR from PLAN. In a war, there are 2 main forces, one is defensive and the other is offensive and it has been proven several times in the past that the offensive force has to allocate more assets than the Defensive force.

Our current number of VLS in our ships for Defence against the Chinese Navy is enough.

But I would say that we should definitely try and atleast build ships of 7500-8000 tons displacement and make them have atleast 48 VLSs in them. This will Prove to be good for the IN from my POV against PLAN. IN already has the Complete edge against Pakistan Navy, now we need to focus more on countering Chinese Navy.
Currently having 48 vls. IN consider more once LR brahmos/land attack cruise missile comes.
 

WolfPack86

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India halts Ka-31 helicopter deal with Russia
NEW DELHI — India has halted negotiations with Russia for the former to acquire 10 Kamov Ka-31 airborne early warning helicopters for $520 million, following uncertainties in arms supplies amid Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

The Indian government indefinitely suspended the negotiations with Rosoboronexport and original equipment manufacturer Russian Helicopters, an Indian Defence Ministry official told Defense New on condition of anonymity. The official, who was not authorized to speak to the press, said the government-to-government deal added that the suspension is due to concerns over Moscow’s ability to execute orders as well as issues related to payment transfers.

Indian Navy officials have said the suspension represents a setback for the service because the Ka-31 helicopters are needed for the country’s second aircraft carrier INS Vikrant, which was locally built and will be commissioned in July.

Amit Cowshish, a former financial adviser for acquisitions with the ministry, said the suspension could also be due to geopolitical pressure as the international community condems Russia’s attack on Ukraine, which began Feb. 24. Other factors, he added, could include budgetary constraints and India’s preference to acquire locally developed helicopters.

And a stalemate in negotiations over technical and financial issues could have also played a role, he noted.

India asked to buy Ka-31 helicopters from Russia in May 2019, but the acquisition program faced inordinate delays due to the coronavirus pandemic and the platform’s high price tag.

Acquisition talks resumed in February 2022 after negotiators settled on a price of $520 million for 10 Ka-31 helicopters, but the effort hit another snag when officials couldn’t agree on a rupee-ruble currency mechanism.

The MoD official said India’s central bank, Reserve Bank of India, has worked overtime since March 2022 to establish an alternative payment mechanism, but negotiators have been unable to come to an agreement.

Neither ministry nor Navy officials would discuss whether India is exploring alternatives to the airborne early warning craft.

The Navy currently operates 14 Ka-31 helicopters, which were inducted progressively — four in 2003, five in 2005 and five in 2013 — and are dependent on the original equipment manufacturer for spare parts, repairs and overhaul support.
 

blackleaf

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From wiki.
Type 052D - 64 vls for SAM, AShM & ASW
Vishakhapatnam class - 32 + 16 = 48 vls for SAM, AShM and no ASW available.
One thing that you need to consider is just how big and heavy the Brahamos is. It weights 3000 pounds which is twice as heavy as the harpoon for example. It also requires a separate vls which is inefficient for space compared to the Type 052 single vls.
 

shiphone

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only 3000 pounds? ....or 'Kgs'?...lol
----------------
the VLS on 055/052D has the capacity for an up to '850mm' diameter missile container, the max length limit is ‘9000mm’ ... you might know the diameter and length of Bhramos.

BTW, here's something 'heavy' and 'big' launched by a Typy 055....lol
微信截图_20220529105254.png


the export varient- HT-1E Universal VLS was revealed on Airshow China last year. the '4 in 1' quad configration concept was demonstrated in real for the first time...you might have to recalculate the missiles contained in the VLS on 052D/055..lol...

for the 052D DDG , the 64 VLS could carry up to
16 AShM/LACM
40 LR-SAM
32 MR-SAM
and 21-SR SAM ready-to-fire in HQ-10 oblique launcher

 
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India Super Power

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only 3000 pounds? ....or 'Kgs'?...lol
----------------
the VLS on 055/052D has the capacity for an up to '850mm' diameter missile container, the max length limit is ‘9000mm’ ... you might know the diameter and length of Bhramos.

BTW, here's something 'heavy' and 'big' launched by a Typy 055....lolView attachment 157836

the export varient- HT-1E Universal VLS was revealed on Airshow China last year. the '4 in 1' quad configration concept was demonstrated in real for the first time...you might have to recalculate the missiles contained in the VLS on 052D/055..lol...

for the 052D DDG , the 64 VLS could carry up to
16 AShM/LACM
40 LR-SAM
32 MR-SAM
and 21-SR SAM ready-to-fire in HQ-10 oblique launcher

You have integrated quad type vls in type 052d destroyers ?
 

Longewala

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only 3000 pounds? ....or 'Kgs'?...lol
----------------
the VLS on 055/052D has the capacity for an up to '850mm' diameter missile container, the max length limit is ‘9000mm’ ... you might know the diameter and length of Bhramos.

BTW, here's something 'heavy' and 'big' launched by a Typy 055....lolView attachment 157836

the export varient- HT-1E Universal VLS was revealed on Airshow China last year. the '4 in 1' quad configration concept was demonstrated in real for the first time...you might have to recalculate the missiles contained in the VLS on 052D/055..lol...

for the 052D DDG , the 64 VLS could carry up to
16 AShM/LACM
40 LR-SAM
32 MR-SAM
and 21-SR SAM ready-to-fire in HQ-10 oblique launcher

Seems like while copying and stealing Russian designs, you ended up designing the warship equivalent of the T-72
 

AUSTERLITZ

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Can some one explain regarding this particular mystery.

Both Vishakhapatnam class and Type-05D displaces similar tonnage but ours has only 32 VLS and the Chinese one has 64 VLS. The question arises

1. Either the design is inefficient in terms of utility of space.
2. Navy doctrine influence
3. Since Indian Navy have limited budget they may add the additional VLS systems during refit in future.

Some one shed light on this.
Vishakapatnam has 48 vls. Barak -8 x32 vls plus 16 brahmos.Type 52D has 64.
The main reason is we have opted for 2 RBU-6000 ASW launchers which is a hardkill system against incoming torpedoes.This system is so-so in blue waters but very effective in shallow waters found in arabian sea .
Plus we have 2 ASW helicopters per ship with hangar instead of 1.Due to this emphasis on anti submarine warfare we have less VLS cells.
 

johnj

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One thing that you need to consider is just how big and heavy the Brahamos is. It weights 3000 pounds which is twice as heavy as the harpoon for example. It also requires a separate vls which is inefficient for space compared to the Type 052 single vls.
Brahmos weights 3000kg not 3000 pounds and my replay is to vls requirement not weight and if you want to consider weight, the what about sam, barak8 around 300kg and their around or more than 1000kg.
Actually using multiple vls like Indian ones saves space, unlike single ones. Just consider vls cell for tomahawk, using same cell for quad pack essm cause wastage of space, also there is difference in length for vls, same vls with different length.
 

Aniruddha Mulay

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Can some one explain regarding this particular mystery.

Both Vishakhapatnam class and Type-05D displaces similar tonnage but ours has only 32 VLS and the Chinese one has 64 VLS. The question arises

1. Either the design is inefficient in terms of utility of space.
2. Navy doctrine influence
3. Since Indian Navy have limited budget they may add the additional VLS systems during refit in future.

Some one shed light on this.
Firstly, Indian Navy Vizag class has 48 VLS cells, not 32.
The one on the Type 52D is universal VLS cells, so it comes with added flexibility of configuring the loadout for multi-mission or air defence roles.
In the end, it all comes down to doctrine.
Indian Navy will be fighting the PLAN primarily in the IOR with support from IAF and shore based anti-ship and anti-sub batteries, where the current loadout on IN ships is enough.
Also, the more you pack missiles into a ship, the higher are the chances of it lighting up like a matchbox in case a missile hits it, take for example the Moskva sinking.
 

Super Flanker

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Indian Navy to procure 26 F-18 in a G2G deal.
Finally! FA-18 has been selected. I always knew it, FA-18 was the one which was going to get selected by the Indian Navy. FA-18 is best for the Indian Navy and Rafale is best for the IAF.

I hope that we Procure a few Growler Variants of the F/A-18 SH as well. Would prove to be a great addition. Australia already uses "Growlers".

What ever I have said is true if this is confirmed news, let's wait for further Confirmation.
 

Love Charger

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Finally! FA-18 has been selected. I always knew it, FA-18 was the one which was going to get selected by the Indian Navy. FA-18 is best for the Indian Navy and Rafale is best for the IAF.

I hope that we Procure a few Growler Variants of the F/A-18 SH as well. Would prove to be a great addition. Australia already uses "Growlers".

What ever I have said is true if this is confirmed news, let's wait for further Confirmation.
You will probably have kids before first planes land on Indian soil
 

Super Flanker

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Indian Navy to procure 26 F-18 in a G2G deal.
I still don't believe it from my side, unless and until I see a Confirmation From the Indian Navy etc, I will not trust this news.

I don't want this to turn out to be fake news like how at one time, Pakistanis were claiming that Malaysia had selected JF-17 Thunder.
 

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