Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Nationalist Manasvi Papa]

 

[Lonewolf]

Nasms mr and lr

how many numbers in each destroyer ??

Wait for those , they will arrive before Kolkata class refit

 

[THESIS THORON]

any possibility of replacing current vls in ships with uvls in refit ??

 

[Vamsi]

any possibility of replacing current vls in ships with uvls in refit ??

No

 

[indiatester]

Did they display any of the Arihant subs?

 

[Lonewolf]

any possibility of replacing current vls in ships with uvls in refit ??

Why do you need uvls and when a uvls will be divided in two type in future for every country

 

[Nationalist Manasvi Papa]

Did they display any of the Arihant subs?

Nope. I think since they are strategic assets.

Real disappointment was no carriers

 

[Aditya Ballal]

OFB-Elbit 12.7x99mm RCWS on INS Kamorta.

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

OFB-Elbit 12.7x99mm RCWS on INS Kamorta.
View attachment 138771

The beard protocol for Navy seems to be different from army and airforce

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Nasms mr and lr

how many numbers in each destroyer ??

Nasams-SR is meant for Indian Navy hslicopters.
Nasams-MR will be arming future IN corvettes

 

[THESIS THORON]

Nasams-SR is meant for Indian Navy hslicopters.
Nasams-MR will be arming future IN corvettes

but Ig it will be present in upcoming ddg

 

[Love Charger]

I had this very funny idea of missile carriers towing the destroyers
Not weapon replenishment but these ships just carry anti ship missiles in vls and not anything else , they sail side by side of their destroyers, the destroyers finds the target and these ships just launch missiles

Iam not drunk , just a funny idea what you guys think about it
( bakchodi and personal attacks will be replied in kind )

 

[kunal sung]

frankly speaking at the end of the day it does come to numerical superiority, doesn't it ?
how are we so sure that 32 barak + 32 vl-srsam will be enough to counter the amount of ashm fired at our naval assets ?
whats the guarantee the 2 baraks or 2 vl-srsam can counter one ashm ( be it supersonic or subsonic )

On the other hand what is the guarantee that 16 brahmos will be enough ?
BC we keep making under-armed ships, fir kehte h midlife upgrade main badha denge ( usme bhi sirf 32 vl-srsam he add honge )

Aur midlife upgrade se phle china ghus gaya to fir hum 32 barak aur 16 brahmos ko gaand m daal legi india navy
reality check for us -
china - type 55 - 6 in active service ( 112 + 24 vls each )
- type 52 d - 18 in active service ( 64 +24 vls each )
- type 52 c - 6 in active service ( 48 sam + 8 ashm each )
- type 51 c - 2 in active service ( 48 s300 + 8 ashm each )

ye to sirf vo h jo saal 2000 ke baad commission huye h, aur bhi h unke paas

supersonic ashm unke paas bhi h

bc agar chinese for example apne 8 destroyer bhi bhej de ( 2 type 55 + 6 type 52d )
to unke paas 608 vls + 192 shsam vls h
kaise defend krenege ?
lets say they fire 100 ashm at us and we agree on the ratio of 2 barak needed to counter one
humare paas to ek ship pe filhaal 32 barak hi h,

lets say unki bhi 1 supersonic ashm 3 million per pop ( brahmos se compare kia h )
bc 300 million dollar ka total 100 ashm ka salvo

$1.2 billion ka 1 vishakhapatnam class with 32 barak sam
aur $2.1 billion k 3 kolkata class with 32 barak sam each ( 96 barak )

humare 4 top k destroyer mila k bc 200 sam nahi bante ( 32+96 )
100 supersonic ashm counter krenge ?

matab chinese $300 million kharch krke hume $3.3 billion ka nuksaan krenge
10 guna zyada nuksaan in monetary terms

ye sirf example diya h, humari baaki asset jaise su30 with brahmos, andaman and nicobar command - ye sab ni lia maine consideration m )
bs ye dikhaya h ki how hopelessly under-armed and numerically weaker we are in terms of navy.

 

[Lonewolf]

frankly speaking at the end of the day it does come to numerical superiority, doesn't it ?
how are we so sure that 32 barak + 32 vl-srsam will be enough to counter the amount of ashm fired at our naval assets ?
whats the guarantee the 2 baraks or 2 vl-srsam can counter one ashm ( be it supersonic or subsonic )

On the other hand what is the guarantee that 16 brahmos will be enough ?
BC we keep making under-armed ships, fir kehte h midlife upgrade main badha denge ( usme bhi sirf 32 vl-srsam he add honge )

Aur midlife upgrade se phle china ghus gaya to fir hum 32 barak aur 16 brahmos ko gaand m daal legi india navy
reality check for us -
china - type 55 - 6 in active service ( 112 + 24 vls each )
- type 52 d - 18 in active service ( 64 +24 vls each )
- type 52 c - 6 in active service ( 48 sam + 8 ashm each )
- type 51 c - 2 in active service ( 48 s300 + 8 ashm each )

ye to sirf vo h jo saal 2000 ke baad commission huye h, aur bhi h unke paas

supersonic ashm unke paas bhi h

bc agar chinese for example apne 8 destroyer bhi bhej de ( 2 type 55 + 6 type 52d )
to unke paas 608 vls + 192 shsam vls h
kaise defend krenege ?
lets say they fire 100 ashm at us and we agree on the ratio of 2 barak needed to counter one
humare paas to ek ship pe filhaal 32 barak hi h,

lets say unki bhi 1 supersonic ashm 3 million per pop ( brahmos se compare kia h )
bc 300 million dollar ka total 100 ashm ka salvo

$1.2 billion ka 1 vishakhapatnam class with 32 barak sam
aur $2.1 billion k 3 kolkata class with 32 barak sam each ( 96 barak )

humare 4 top k destroyer mila k bc 200 sam nahi bante ( 32+96 )
100 supersonic ashm counter krenge ?

matab chinese $300 million kharch krke hume $3.3 billion ka nuksaan krenge
10 guna zyada nuksaan in monetary terms

ye sirf example diya h, humari baaki asset jaise su30 with brahmos, andaman and nicobar command - ye sab ni lia maine consideration m )
bs ye dikhaya h ki how hopelessly under-armed and numerically weaker we are in terms of navy.

Hq 10 is equivalent to MANPADs which you counted , let a system be developed we can install it too .


And after addition of 32 vls in vizag and Kolkata class it will be better equipped than type 52d , 64 vls of type 52d contains both ashm and Sam , on the other hand vizag will have 32 barak 8 ,32 vlsrsam , plus 16 brahmos

 

[THESIS THORON]

Hq 10 is equivalent to MANPADs which you counted , let a system be developed we can install it too .


And after addition of 32 vls in vizag and Kolkata class it will be better equipped than type 52d , 64 vls of type 52d contains both ashm and Sam , on the other hand vizag will have 32 barak 8 ,32 vlsrsam , plus 16 brahmos

what about type 55 ??

how will our ships stand against it ??

 

[Gessler]

but Ig it will be present in upcoming ddg

A subsonic SSM will be a waste of space of any of the future DDGs and FFGs. They should be exclusively equipped with hypersonic weapons for anti-ship uses.

NASM family will be useful for equipping small vessels with viable SSM armament, and good tool for exports, but nothing else. It's barely an equivalent of Harpoon or Exocet...useless on post-2030 major surface combatants.

 

[johnj]

A subsonic SSM will be a waste of space of any of the future DDGs and FFGs. They should be exclusively equipped with hypersonic weapons for anti-ship uses.

NASM family will be useful for equipping small vessels with viable SSM armament, and good tool for exports, but nothing else. It's barely an equivalent of Harpoon or Exocet...useless on post-2030 major surface combatants.

NSM, lrasm.

 

[johnj]

what about type 55 ??

how will our ships stand against it ??

1 vs 1, its depend on total anti ship load of type 55, if AShM exceeds 40, IN destroyer chance is zero. Type 55 can easily handle 16 brahmos with 4 layer AD. Kolkata class handle upto 26/32 AShM with 2 layer AD. Sea skimming AShM reduce the number to 8/12. If missile launched less than 100km, zero chance for both.

 

[retribution]

I had this very funny idea of missile carriers towing the destroyers
Not weapon replenishment but these ships just carry anti ship missiles in vls and not anything else , they sail side by side of their destroyers, the destroyers finds the target and these ships just launch missiles

Iam not drunk , just a funny idea what you guys think about it
( bakchodi and personal attacks will be replied in kind )

not a funny idea at all . the us navy flirted with this idea for a while before congress denied the funds .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsen...p was a,missiles, most likely cruise missiles.

 

[Tridev123]

frankly speaking at the end of the day it does come to numerical superiority, doesn't it ?
how are we so sure that 32 barak + 32 vl-srsam will be enough to counter the amount of ashm fired at our naval assets ?
whats the guarantee the 2 baraks or 2 vl-srsam can counter one ashm ( be it supersonic or subsonic )

On the other hand what is the guarantee that 16 brahmos will be enough ?
BC we keep making under-armed ships, fir kehte h midlife upgrade main badha denge ( usme bhi sirf 32 vl-srsam he add honge )

Aur midlife upgrade se phle china ghus gaya to fir hum 32 barak aur 16 brahmos ko gaand m daal legi india navy
reality check for us -
china - type 55 - 6 in active service ( 112 + 24 vls each )
- type 52 d - 18 in active service ( 64 +24 vls each )
- type 52 c - 6 in active service ( 48 sam + 8 ashm each )
- type 51 c - 2 in active service ( 48 s300 + 8 ashm each )

ye to sirf vo h jo saal 2000 ke baad commission huye h, aur bhi h unke paas

supersonic ashm unke paas bhi h

bc agar chinese for example apne 8 destroyer bhi bhej de ( 2 type 55 + 6 type 52d )
to unke paas 608 vls + 192 shsam vls h
kaise defend krenege ?
lets say they fire 100 ashm at us and we agree on the ratio of 2 barak needed to counter one
humare paas to ek ship pe filhaal 32 barak hi h,

lets say unki bhi 1 supersonic ashm 3 million per pop ( brahmos se compare kia h )
bc 300 million dollar ka total 100 ashm ka salvo

$1.2 billion ka 1 vishakhapatnam class with 32 barak sam
aur $2.1 billion k 3 kolkata class with 32 barak sam each ( 96 barak )

humare 4 top k destroyer mila k bc 200 sam nahi bante ( 32+96 )
100 supersonic ashm counter krenge ?

matab chinese $300 million kharch krke hume $3.3 billion ka nuksaan krenge
10 guna zyada nuksaan in monetary terms

ye sirf example diya h, humari baaki asset jaise su30 with brahmos, andaman and nicobar command - ye sab ni lia maine consideration m )
bs ye dikhaya h ki how hopelessly under-armed and numerically weaker we are in terms of navy.

I appreciate the sentiment behind the arguments.
You want India to improve its defense potential.

But there are two ways of looking at the situation.
No doubt our glass is only half full where as probably the Chinese have got an almost full glass.
Again why always look at the empty portion of the glass. The common bane of many Indians is to focus on the negatives and get angry and despondent. While we may not be able to match the PLAN in the near future, we are certainly no pushover.

Just compare the condition of our Navy now to about even a decade ago. We have added many large capital ships with impressive capabilities. No disputing the fact that the Chinese construct new naval ships at a pace probably double of our present capability. But I believe the elephant(if India can be compared to it) is starting to run slowly and may even sprint into an fast run in the next decade. The Indian elephant may well transform into the Royal Bengal Tiger. Especially if the private sector is heavily involved in ship building. I am almost 100% certain that if L & T is given the contract to build new destroyers and frigates, they would build it in about half the time it takes for our public sector shipyards. It may not match Chinese ship building speed but will be close to their performance standards.

Has India even exploited the potential of our private sector in defence shipbuilding.

Having made such an optimistic statement some realities need to be faced.
While we are largely self sufficient in the float category, we continue to depend on imports to a significant degree for the sensors and weapons.( The naval propulsion complex is being indigenised with the licensed production of the GE LM2500 gas turbine units in the country.) Thus foreign OEM's have to stick to schedules and price. Any delay by a foreign supplier will adversely impact timelines.

But I believe a company like L & T will still perform well in spite of the constraints. Outperforming our Public Sector Shipyards.

We need more professionally run Private Sector Shipyards.

Also even though the Chinese Navy has become the largest in the world in terms of numbers, it cannot use its entire Navy against India in the Indian Ocean region.They face an big challenge from the US Navy and the Japanese for which they need to allocate sufficient numbers of naval assets.

Nobody should ignore the Chinese threat. But we should not feel weak and diffident. The Indian Navy is a credible force especially in the Indian Ocean Region. And it can only get better in the future.

And remember, the Chinese are not an Global Superpower yet. As regards naval technology especially in the field of very quiet nuclear submarines they trail the Russians and lag behind US submarine technology even more. It will take them more than a decade to catch up with Russia and the US in many defence related technologies.

They still import systems like Ukrainian Gas Turbines to power their capital ships. It would not be a lie to state that many Chinese weapons owe their origins to Russia and Ukraine. They do suffer from various weaknesses.

And in a worst case scenario, if indeed the PLAN admirals are stupid enough to throw their entire Navy in a war against the Indian Navy, other powers like the US, Russia and Japan will not be sleeping. We may well see the active involvement of the US Navy in countering the PLAN. No way China can take on both India and the US at the same time. Even the Russians for all of their eternal friendship with Beijing will not like to see India overwhelmed by the Chinese.