Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[IndianHawk]

How about giving up on IAC-2 construction for next 10 years but committing to it financially, save $1B/yr for it & keep refining the design on paper (for UCAVs etc). With $11-12B in the pocket in 2032 and economy in a much better shape go for a 100K EMAL'd nuke super carrier starting build in 2030s ready for service in the 2050s. A 10 year delay is nothing in the life of an asset that will last 50-60 years. By then TEDBF would have been flying for 20 years and would have gone through some iterations & perhaps a CATOBAR modification will be available.

Transposing ourselves to 2050s is it better to have Vikramaditya+Vikrant+70K ton steam conventional CATOBAR Vishal (trio available from 2040s) or Vikramaditya+Vikrant+100K ton nuke EMALs CATOBAR Vishal (only from 2050s, with just two carriers in 2030s & 2040s)?

There will be no such savings. Govt doesn't work like that.

 

[SKC]

There will be no such savings. Govt doesn't work like that.

Yes, Money not spent is Money spent on other things.

 

[Covfefe]

There will be no such savings. Govt doesn't work like that.

15th Finance commission has recommended creating a non lapsable defence modernisation fund(something like MPLADS funds) and government has given in principle approval for the same. However 10 years of recurring deposit does seem far fetched idea

 

[Rassil Krishnan]

The emals being offered has never even been tested, and the version on US navy ships is already a headache to maintain....with only slightly better performance

i dont get the appeal of the new ford,its only appeal i can see is in some small maintenance cost over the lifetime which is chip change for a country like usa,it seems to not offer any new capability over the nimitz class.

they are facing many problems in new revolutionary systems that mostly incraese crew comfort and not most direct combat capability,so i dont understand the hype.

catapulting using emals rather than steam does not increase the overall firepower of the ship or the no of aircraft it can carry,it is only said to increase the life of the aircraft which might come true since the US navy since the 2000s made many such promises that eventually fell through.

they are having issues with elevators that are still not fixed.

they are already twice the cost of a nimitz and they are only getting about the same capability with improvements in areas that dont matter immediately in battle.i dont undertand what the hypeis about it here.

see the hollowing of the us navy and us marine saga by reading closely about the happenings since the 2000s.

honestly cant believe i am saying this but i have read about services that make the indian army procurement and induction issues look tame,the us navy induction has been a joke since the 2000s and the british too.

there have been such traitors and stupid woke shit found and is now policy of officials in the navy of USA,they make indian military look very good in those terms.

 

[vampyrbladez]

i dont get the appeal of the new ford,its only appeal i can see is in some small maintenance cost over the lifetime which is chip change for a country like usa,it seems to not offer any new capability over the nimitz class.

they are facing many problems in new revolutionary systems that mostly incraese crew comfort and not most direct combat capability,so i dont understand the hype.

catapulting using emals rather than steam does not increase the overall firepower of the ship or the no of aircraft it can carry,it is only said to increase the life of the aircraft which might come true since the US navy since the 2000s made many such promises that eventually fell through.

they are having issues with elevators that are still not fixed.

they are already twice the cost of a nimitz and they are only getting about the same capability with improvements in areas that dont matter immediately in battle.i dont undertand what the hypeis about it here.

see the hollowing of the us navy and us marine saga by reading closely about the happenings since the 2000s.

honestly cant believe i am saying this but i have read about services that make the indian army procurement and induction issues look tame,the us navy induction has been a joke since the 2000s and the british too.

there have been such traitors and stupid woke shit found and is now policy of officials in the navy of USA,they make indian military look very good in those terms.

The US Navy is a Democrat bastion because of the ports lying in Deep Blue states like Connecticut, Virginia, California, Hawai, etc.
Hence they get a lion's share of the funding.

Ford Class are supposed to have EMALs that increase aircraft MTOW capacity and service life. The Nuclear Plant is also supposed to be 2-3 times more powerful than the old Nimitz Class.

This increased power means a far more powerful Radar AN/SPY-6 and just half of the power is used right now to preserve the other half of railguns and lasers.

Even issues like the elevators are being allegedly fixed or have been resolved.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...ued-weapons-elevators-saga-appears-to-be-over

However it will need until 2025 until the F 35C is fully operational on the carrier.

On the other hand, the LCS is a case study on how not to handle a project.

The Unplanned Costs of an Unmanned Fleet - War on the Rocks

Two subjects are nearly inescapable in commentary about the U.S. Navy today. The first is the much-maligned, 15-year saga of the littoral combat ship

warontherocks.com

 

[Gessler]

I'm of the opinion that IAC-2 is going to be a CATOBAR carrier (that part is confirmed, IN is not budging on that, terrible experiences with STOBAR to boot), size somewhere between Charles de Gaulle (40k) and QEC (65k). EMALS would be nice to have, but it doesn't seem IN is adamant on it. Based on cost-benefit analysis, they might end up settling for a Steam catapult. Nuclear propulsion was considered early on, but appears to have been since abandoned - so a conventional gas turbine-powered layout with IEP.

In the end, the carrier might functionally be not very different to existing Charles de Gaulle in terms of size & footprint...with the obvious differences being the deficiencies brought on by conventional propulsion as opposed to nuclear, plus the air wing having a significant unmanned component which is not the case with CdG.

Inclusion of a fixed-wing AEW platform (E-2D Advanced Hawkeye) will be a distinct possibility, finances permitting.

All in all, it would seem to me IAC-2 in this avatar would be a largely outdated & underwhelming proposition for a carrier meant to enter service in late-2030s/early 2040s. Doesn't appear to make much sense (to me) once you disregard IN's insane obsession & insistence for a 3-carrier fleet.

Might as well just build a CATOBAR version of IAC-1 and call it a day...I still think IAC-2 is actually going to be nothing but just that anyway.

 

[bhramos]

 

[FalconSlayers]

Well done coomers, aise hoga modernisation.

 

[Covfefe]

Well done coomers, aise hoga modernisation.

Yeh L1 bidder ka system jab tak rahega tab tak kuch nahi change ho raha, Public shipyards will keep "winning" the tenders by quoting the lowest bids- because all of their initial investment has come from the government side, and their delays and cost overruns don't get penalized. Either privatize a few of them or block them out on account of non-performance. Magar Govt ki CAG se phat ti hai to they won't do it

 

[HawkisRight]

Lot of OT bs here...so for mood change

Rafale in Goa

 

[Aditya Ballal]

 

[thebakofbakchod]

IMO we need to build a lot more frigates and corvettes than the ones currently planned. If porkis end up building even half of these, it will be a much bigger headache than currently. Not sure why IN is not ordering more P17As or even starting a P17B with some more refinements, such as bringing back 2 hangars, upgrading the radar etc. There is simply too large of a gap between the delivery of P17As and NGF

 

[FalconSlayers]

IMO we need to build a lot more frigates and corvettes than the ones currently planned. If porkis end up building even half of these, it will be a much bigger headache than currently. Not sure why IN is not ordering more P17As or even starting a P17B with some more refinements, such as bringing back 2 hangars, upgrading the radar etc. There is simply too large of a gap between the delivery of P17As and NGF

Sarkari Shipyards delaying the delivering those ships, private shipyards get less orders.

 

[thebakofbakchod]

Sarkari Shipyards delaying the delivering those ships, private shipyards get less orders.

TBF if GRSE and MDL can actually deliver all 7 P17As by 2024/5, their speed isnt too bad at all and wont be an excuse anymore. That means going from keel to commissioning a 7000 ton ship in 4 years. This figure is still twice as high as Japan, China etc, but much better than the usual 8-10 years they used to take.

 

[fire starter]

IMO we need to build a lot more frigates and corvettes than the ones currently planned. If porkis end up building even half of these, it will be a much bigger headache than currently. Not sure why IN is not ordering more P17As or even starting a P17B with some more refinements, such as bringing back 2 hangars, upgrading the radar etc. There is simply too large of a gap between the delivery of P17As and NGF

Their Rapist baap muhammad will pay for the fuel by distilling camel Urine.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Their Rapist baap muhammad will pay for the fuel by distilling camel Urine.

 

[Love Charger]

Their Rapist baap muhammad will pay for the fuel by distilling camel Urine.

Bhai shant hoja

 

[Lonewolf]

Their Rapist baap muhammad will pay for the fuel by distilling camel Urine.

They should know that you can't use tinshed in shipbuilding

 

[India Super Power]

IMO we need to build a lot more frigates and corvettes than the ones currently planned. If porkis end up building even half of these, it will be a much bigger headache than currently. Not sure why IN is not ordering more P17As or even starting a P17B with some more refinements, such as bringing back 2 hangars, upgrading the radar etc. There is simply too large of a gap between the delivery of P17As and NGF

Abe itna pesa kaun dega, sala hamare pas apne liye nahi hai aur inko amir bab se milte hi ja raha hai
Kaun hai inka bap

 

[Love Charger]

Abe itna pesa kaun dega, sala hamare pas apne liye nahi hai aur inko amir bab se milte hi ja raha hai
Kaun hai inka bap

Cheen