Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[tharun]

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Day light robbery in progress.....

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[vampyrbladez]

Day light robbery in progress.....

Sent from my Redmi 4 using Tapatalk

{{OFFTOPIC JOKE}}
The difference between arranged marriage and love marriage. Pick your poison I guess. :bounce:

{{OFFTOPIC JOKE ENDS HERE}}

Our shipyards are chock full with orders but no capacity. GSL will at least learn to make frigates which will be useful for NGC, NGMV programmes.

 

[Prashant12]

GSL set to ink deal with def ministry for 2 frigates


Panaji: With India and Russia inking the crucial agreement for the procurement of four guided missile frigates for the Indian Navy — including two ships which will be built by Goa Shipyard Limited (GSL) — the Vasco based-shipyard is now racing to ink a formal contract with the ministry of defence in order to complete formalities within the next two months, GSL officials said.

The ministry of defence quietly inked the contract to purchase two frigates of the Project 11356 class, which will be bought directly from Russia’s Yantar Shipyard. While the two frigate hulls are already fabricated, India will procure the gas turbines from Ukraine and then integrate them onto the two vessels.

“The natural choice would be for GSL to integrate the engines on the first two frigates that will directly be sourced from Russia. But the engines could also be integrated in Russia. Nothing has been decided,” said an official.

Sources said that the long-pending project got the green signal during the summit between Russian president Vladimir Putin and Prime Minister Narendra Modi in October, but due to concerns over US sanctions, both governments waited to formally ink the agreements.

In an official note, GSL said that the umbrella contract for four upgraded Krivak III class frigates through two contracts includes two ships which will be built by GSL.

“A contract for follow-on ships is most likely to be signed within a month or two,” a GSL official said when asked about the two frigates that will be built in Goa.

Sources said India’s cabinet committee on security (CCS) has already sanctioned the purchase of the four frigates. Price negotiations with the Russians and the defence ministry have also been completed, they said.

The defence public sector undertaking’s operational profits over the last few years have hovered around Rs 450 crore, with its net worth doubling to Rs 909 crore.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...istry-for-2-frigates/articleshow/66452502.cms

 

[vampyrbladez]

Seriously WTF is with the PC culture in the armed forces. This will be a strategic blunder if executed.

https://www.business-standard.com/a...enrollment-in-indian-navy-118110201324_1.html

Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman on Friday urged Chief of Indian Naval Staff, Admiral Sunil Lanba, to push for enrollment of women sailors in the Indian Navy.

Sitharaman, who participated in the bi-annual Naval Commanders' Conference here, was briefed by top naval commanders on various issues.

According to sources, Lanba confirmed that the decision to include women sailors was on the agenda of the conference.

The three-day conference, which aimed at outlining the maritime vision of the government, saw the top brass of the Navy brainstorming on the themes of 'Optimisation' and 'Emerging Technologies'.

Apart from new ideas and technologies, the commanders also deliberated on the operation preparedness, combat readiness of units and optimisation of resources in which manpower plays a pivotal role.

The discussions were also held over 'Indian Naval Indigenisation Plan 2015-30', including induction of aircraft carrier, ships, nuclear-powered submarines, conventional submarines, revitalisation of aviation and sub-surface assets at the Naval Commanders Conference.

 

[vampyrbladez]

https://www.theweek.in/news/india/2018/11/02/Indian-Navy-to-induct-women-in-sailor-rank.html

Indian Navy will soon allow women to join as sailors, and the deployment of women on warships may soon become a reality. The issue of deployment of women on warships, which has been a long pending demand, came up during the three-day Naval Commanders Conference in New Delhi.

Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman, while addressing the naval commanders on the final day of the conference, urged the Navy to give impetus to the enrollment of women in the Navy.

Responding to Sitharaman, Navy Chief Admiral Sunil Lanba confirmed that women in sailor rank is one of the key points of the agenda of the ongoing commanders conference.

"Besides sailor rank, inclusion of women in sea going cadre is also being looked at in near future, not immediately," an officer privy to the development said.

At present, only the Army has decided to induct women as soldiers or jawans, and 800 of them will be recruited for the Corps of Military Police. Currently women are serving as officers in the Army, Indian Air Force (IAF) and Navy. The recruitment of women jawans in the Army will begin in a phased manner with the selection and training of 52 candidates every year.

The Navy has so far deployed women officers in eight branches, including education, law and naval constructions, where women have been given permanent commission as non-sea going cadre. For the deployment of women in sea, future warships are being modified with 'suitable facilities' to accommodate women crew onboard.

The Navy has also deployed 70 women officers as observers or tactical operators on the maritime patrol aircrafts Boeing P-8I and IL-38, which are armed, and it is considered as a combat role.

Last year, Indian Air Force inducted three women as fighter pilots on an experimental basis.

While addressing top naval commanders, the defence minister reiterated the need for the nation to be strong at sea and the Navy was asked to be ready and vigilant to counter any challenge in the maritime domain. “The government appreciates the Navy’s efforts in the area of indigenisation, self-reliance, and support to the ‘Make in India’ initiative of the government," she said, while expressing her satisfaction at the Navy’s initiatives to achieve ‘Digital Navy’ vision in line with the government’s initiative of ‘Digital India' programme.

In the last six months, defence ministry has approved capital acquisitions contracts worth Rs 17,000 crore. In the last four years of the BJP-led NDA government, two-third of the Navy's modernisation budget was spent on indigenous procurement.

During the interaction, Sitharaman reviewed the combat readiness of the Navy, pace of modernisation and progress of various acquisition and infrastructure related cases as infrastructure projects worth more than Rs 2,300 crore were approved in this financial year so far.

During the three days of brainstorming, top naval commanders undertook a review of the Navy’s modernisation plans, including induction of aircraft carriers, ships, nuclear powered submarines, conventional submarines, re-vitalisation of the aviation and sub-surface assets and induction of certain state-of-the-art weapons, sensors and equipment. "Further, development of technical and support infrastructure for maintenance of these assets were also discussed in consonance with the ‘Indian Naval Indigenisation Plan 2015-30’, which has formulated the requirements of the Indian Navy towards indigenous development of equipment and systems over the next 15 years," the Navy said in its statement.

Sitharaman also asked the Navy to have a focussed approach towards the strategically important Andaman and Nicobar Command (ANC), while assuring additional budget to the tri-service command.

 

[binayak95]

Seriously WTF is with the PC culture in the armed forces. This will be a strategic blunder if executed.

https://www.business-standard.com/a...enrollment-in-indian-navy-118110201324_1.html

Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman on Friday urged Chief of Indian Naval Staff, Admiral Sunil Lanba, to push for enrollment of women sailors in the Indian Navy.

Sitharaman, who participated in the bi-annual Naval Commanders' Conference here, was briefed by top naval commanders on various issues.

According to sources, Lanba confirmed that the decision to include women sailors was on the agenda of the conference.

The three-day conference, which aimed at outlining the maritime vision of the government, saw the top brass of the Navy brainstorming on the themes of 'Optimisation' and 'Emerging Technologies'.

Apart from new ideas and technologies, the commanders also deliberated on the operation preparedness, combat readiness of units and optimisation of resources in which manpower plays a pivotal role.

The discussions were also held over 'Indian Naval Indigenisation Plan 2015-30', including induction of aircraft carrier, ships, nuclear-powered submarines, conventional submarines, revitalisation of aviation and sub-surface assets at the Naval Commanders Conference.

NO it won't be. Strategic blunder is having women officers and no women enlisted ranks. Then, you create a gender divide. If you want to have women in service, have them across all ranks.

Several nations have done this, and of these nations, the US, Russia and Israel have done combat ops with women service personnel.

Women are more effective at certain roles such as Observers onboard ASW aircraft, ATC, Medics, SIGINT, etc.

 

[vampyrbladez]

NO it won't be. Strategic blunder is having women officers and no women enlisted ranks. Then, you create a gender divide. If you want to have women in service, have them across all ranks.

Several nations have done this, and of these nations, the US, Russia and Israel have done combat ops with women service personnel.

Women are more effective at certain roles such as Observers onboard ASW aircraft, ATC, Medics, SIGINT, etc.

Why have women onboard ships in the first place? You have strain in logistics, break down in unit cohesion, fraternisation problems, sexual assault, rape, etc not to mention bad press. This is USN experience after 4 decades.

https://amp.dailycaller.com/2017/03...has-a-pregnancy-problem-and-its-getting-worse

There is a common myth that US, IDF, etc have women in frontline combat. Till date no women have served in combat zone in combat roles in these armies. Those GI Barbies are for feminazis in media to gloat on for 5 mins and then move onto next hot topic issue.

All the roles have been assigned. The more 'effective' propaganda is pure BS. This is a case of giving a mouse a cookie and then being forced to give them milk.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...all-male-combat-units-faster-than-mixed-units

https://amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/aug/26/army-stats-show-that-women-are-injured-twice-as-of/

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/228996

If BJP resorts to such appeasement tactics they automatically lose my vote. That's from someone who takes hits for it online and in real life.

 

[binayak95]

Why have women onboard ships in the first place? You have strain in logistics, break down in unit cohesion, fraternisation problems, sexual assault, rape, etc not to mention bad press. This is USN experience after 4 decades.

https://amp.dailycaller.com/2017/03...has-a-pregnancy-problem-and-its-getting-worse

There is a common myth that US, IDF, etc have women in frontline combat. Till date no women have served in combat zone in combat roles in these armies. Those GI Barbies are for feminazis in media to gloat on for 5 mins and then move onto next hot topic issue.

All the roles have been assigned. The more 'effective' propaganda is pure BS. This is a case of giving a mouse a cookie and then being forced to give them milk.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...all-male-combat-units-faster-than-mixed-units

https://amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/aug/26/army-stats-show-that-women-are-injured-twice-as-of/

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/228996

If BJP resorts to such appeasement tactics they automatically lose my vote. That's from someone who takes hits for it online and in real life.

Did I speak of having women onboard ships. Did you read what I had written at all? ATC/SIGINT/Observers - kahaan likha hai ship service.

your vote- everything boils down to that. Myopic idiots.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Did I speak of having women onboard ships. Did you read what I had written at all? ATC/SIGINT/Observers - kahaan likha hai ship service.

your vote- everything boils down to that. Myopic idiots.

They are already in those units. What are you trying to say?

 

[binayak95]

They are already in those units. What are you trying to say?

Women in the three services (and the Coast Guard) have been officers only. They breed discontent among the ORs of the military, for obvious gender bias. Introducing service for enlisted women would go a long long way.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Women in the three services (and the Coast Guard) have been officers only. They breed discontent among the ORs of the military, for obvious gender bias. Introducing service for enlisted women would go a long long way.

Gender bias is liberal bullshit. If you put women in labor heavy jobs, you get nothing. Officers have a better quality of life and some gender segregation for obvious reasons. Enlisted women would simply demand better living accomodations, strain logistics and waste money. We have a massive population, so demographics are the least of our worries.

 

[binayak95]

Gender bias is liberal bullshit. If you put women in labor heavy jobs, you get nothing. Officers have a better quality of life and some gender segregation for obvious reasons. Enlisted women would simply demand better living accomodations, strain logistics and waste money. We have a massive population, so demographics are the least of our worries.

Arreh pheer se ulta samjhe
Women are in service NOW but only as officers. I have heard countless number of times enlisted ranks grumbling over this - such and such ma'am gave such and such orders. Let them see how we operate and then give orders. They don't say the same to "men" officers because we have been there, done that. Get it, now?

 

[vampyrbladez]

Arreh pheer se ulta samjhe
Women are in service NOW but only as officers. I have heard countless number of times enlisted ranks grumbling over this - such and such ma'am gave such and such orders. Let them see how we operate and then give orders. They don't say the same to "men" officers because we have been there, done that. Get it, now?

In enlisted ranks, maximum burden of soldiering and ground level decision making takes place. A form of brotherhood and unit cohesion keeps a common cause with all the men. When you introduce women to the mix, you get a cesspool of problems as there are NO gains either on teeth or tail end.

It's better to have a few women in desk jockey positions and pencil pushers act like mid level managers than to destroy the military over social agendas. 'Men' get respected more due to innate tribal nature of humans. We fear male bosses more than female ones in most cases. Introducing pseudo - equality measures will be 'Lene Ke Dene Pad Gaye'!

 

[Indx TechStyle]

At the first place, the males acting as dominators is natural behavior in humans as well as other homnidae group. You may look at any type of monkeys, Chimpanzees, Gorillas etc. where males own many females and head the groups.
Second, unnecessarily imposed values of society have made the women behave like soft beings. That doesn't mean they can't be rough & tough.

But we are humans and we a thing called sense which makes us think apart from our behaviour and consciously let us decide what's good or bad for us.
There 600 millions + women in India. If only 20-40% of them are working then, imagine a huge potential is getting wasted which could be transformed into doctors, engineers, Scientists, politicians, bureaucrats, soldiers, economists, sportsperson.
If fate of those women can be changed, India's destiny will change overnight.

Feminism means to give equal rights to men & women. Although, all those retarded moments like #MeToo are bullshit and all one sided sexual acts & overtures should decriminalized except molestation & rape (coz attraction is human nature), that doesn't mean to make them symbols for glory of family. Be it Abrahams keeping them like slaves or be it Hindus keeping them like Glory statue. It's not working coz neither sex education is rightly at place and people are trying to combine sexual values with feminism.
OT:
They can fight for Nation and they will have to fight unless some scientific research proves that they are incapable of fighting. Psychological problems have to be solved psychologically, not by discontinuing program.
In extreme conditions, there have been many brave women fighter around world too.
Right now from officers, we'll move there gradually.

Arreh pheer se ulta samjhe
Women are in service NOW but only as officers. I have heard countless number of times enlisted ranks grumbling over this - such and such ma'am gave such and such orders. Let them see how we operate and then give orders. They don't say the same to "men" officers because we have been there, done that. Get it, now?

In enlisted ranks, maximum burden of soldiering and ground level decision making takes place. A form of brotherhood and unit cohesion keeps a common cause with all the men. When you introduce women to the mix, you get a cesspool of problems as there are NO gains either on teeth or tail end.

It's better to have a few women in desk jockey positions and pencil pushers act like mid level managers than to destroy the military over social agendas. 'Men' get respected more due to innate tribal nature of humans. We fear male bosses more than female ones in most cases. Introducing pseudo - equality measures will be 'Lene Ke Dene Pad Gaye'!

 

[vampyrbladez]

They can fight for Nation and they will have to fight unless some scientific research proves that they are incapable of fighting. Psychological problems have to be solved psychologically, not by discontinuing program.
In extreme conditions, there have been many brave women fighter around world too.
Right now from officers, we'll move there gradually.

This kind of feminist propaganda is why most Western militaries will crumble if there is a war with Russia or China and US doesn't bail them out. Women as soldiers are only fit for rear echelon duties and to act as a 'meat shield' for the grinder if things get desperate and main force has to live to fight another day.

Here is your scientific evidence straight from USMC, arguably the finest fighting force on the planet.

https://www.documentcloud.org/docum...gration-plan-summary.html#document/p3/a239541

Additional sources on injury rates and down time of female sailors in USN.

A record 16 out of 100 Navy women are reassigned from ships to shore duty due to pregnancy, according to data obtained under the Freedom of Information Act by The Daily Caller News Foundation’s Investigative Group.

That number is up 2 percent from 2015, representing hundreds more who have to cut their deployments short, taxing both their unit’s manpower, military budgets and combat readiness. Further, such increases cast a shadow over the lofty gender integration goals set by former President Barack Obama.

Overall, women unexpectedly leave their stations on Navy ships as much as 50% more frequently to return to land duty, according to documents obtained from the Navy. The statistics were compiled by the Navy Personnel Command at the request of The DCNF, covering the period from January 2015 to September 2016.

The evacuation of pregnant women is costly for the Navy. Jude Eden, a nationally known author about women in the military who served in 2004 as a Marine deployed to Iraq said a single transfer can cost the Navy up to $30,000 for each woman trained for a specific task, then evacuated from an active duty ship and sent to land. That figure translates into $115 million in expenses for 2016 alone.

https://amp.dailycaller.com/2017/03...has-a-pregnancy-problem-and-its-getting-worse

Experience of international militaries in this regard. This is US Army.

Female soldiers suffered double the rate of injuries compared with male colleagues in Army combat training, including jobs in field artillery and repairing the Bradley Fighting Vehicle.

The startling statistics come from Army studies obtained by the Center for Military Readiness (CMR), a research group that opposes what the Obama administration is expected to do by year’s end: put women in the direct land combat in infantry, armor, artillery and special operations units.

“Double risks of injury among women, combined with expected absences due to pregnancy and other gender-related issues, would be even more problematic in small combat units with four to 12 members, such as M1 tank crews, infantry rifle squads, or cannon artillery gun crews,” she said. “The absence of female team members would compromise missions and put everyone’s lives at greater risk.”

https://amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/aug/26/army-stats-show-that-women-are-injured-twice-as-of/

This is IDF aka supposedly the most 'woman friendly' army in the world.

The male soldiers also have a higher rate of injury in mixed units as compared to all-male units. He mentioned a study published by Kalman Liebeskind, according to which 24% of the male soldiers are defined as injured at any given moment in the mixed Bardelas unit, compared with 8% in Golani. Sagi explained that because the female soldiers cannot carry the heavy equipment, the task falls on the male soldiers, who have to carry m

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/228996

 

[Indx TechStyle]

This kind of feminist propaganda is why most Western militaries will crumble if there is a war with Russia or China and US doesn't bail them out. Women as soldiers are only fit for rear echelon duties and to act as a 'meat shield' for the grinder if things get desperate and main force has to live to fight another day.

Again you aren't getting my point. Women aren't part of hard duties because its convention. Conventional raising brings performance down. And convention is to blame & eliminate, putting them away isn't a solution. I don't care whatever they do in west. If women aren't prepared, train them.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Again you aren't getting my point. Women aren't part of hard duties because its convention. Conventional raising brings performance down. And convention is to blame & eliminate, putting them away isn't a solution. I don't care whatever they do in west. If women aren't prepared, train them.

I have provided scientific and empirical evidence as to why this would be a strategic blunder. Based on the attached report USMC asked for any exemption from SecDef of Obama administration but were denied as they wanted a prop for Hillary going into 2016 (lol!).

Keep those emotional arguments to yourself. In war it's killed or be killed, let western forces ruin their capacity. We will gore them in their camos!

 

[Indx TechStyle]

I have provided scientific and empirical evidence as to why this would be a strategic blunder. Based on the attached report USMC asked for any exemption from SecDef of Obama administration but were denied as they wanted a prop for Hillary going into 2016 (lol!).

You provided statistical.
Mind it, I used a word "convention" there for a reason. Besides few constraints with body parts, there's no difference.

Other, in mixed units, males have a tendency to defend and support female compatriots.

Keep those emotional arguments to yourself. In war it's killed or be killed, let western forces ruin their capacity. We will gore them in their camos!

Mine isn't emotional but rational. It's yours driven by conservatism. Anyways, who told you that Russia & China don't have ladies in armed forces?

 

[vampyrbladez]

You provided statistical.
Mind it, I used a word "convention" there for a reason. Besides few constraints with body parts, there's no difference.

I posted official USMC and US Army studies on this very issue conducted from 2012 - 15. Please post evidence to the contrary or shut up!

Other, in mixed units, males have a tendency to defend and support female compatriots.

Which is why all you need is a wounded woman to doom an entire squad. A sniper sees her hips and bun protruding from the helmet and opens fire. Men then make a conga line towards the wounded chick and suffer more casualties. Add to the fact the screaming and crying of a woman as she dies will give your entire squad PTSD.

Mine isn't emotional but rational. It's yours driven by conservatism. Anyways, who told you that Russia & China don't have ladies in armed forces?

Russia and China hire models for their military parades. In their case it is largely symbolic and PR than actual strategic decision. I base my decision on logic, common sense, studies and tactical insights. If that aligns with conservatism, you just discredited your entire stand as reactionary.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/china...s-troops-for-big-military-parade_1737356.html

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/f...s/news-story/93f7818f19be04de334808da460cbcaf



P.S: Request Mods to move conversation to appropriate thread. Thnx Mods = Gods! :biggrin2:[/QUOTE]

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Again you aren't getting my point. Women aren't part of hard duties because its convention. Conventional raising brings performance down. And convention is to blame & eliminate, putting them away isn't a solution. I don't care whatever they do in west. If women aren't prepared, train them.

It is as good as asking to train gorillas for war. Biological ability makes women much weaker, much slower and have much less stamina then men. Not all conventions are wrong.

Women are good for some roles only, not all roles. There are many roles like those of logistics and maintenance as in case of nursing, medics, supply containers, supervision of production machines to produce war goods etc. These are behind the line duties but are very critical for the frontline soldiers and hence women can be used here. There is no use in making women fight in frontlines.

Yours is indeed driven by emotional bias or even stockholm syndrome, not reason. Last time you were saying that women have to be made to work to increase productivity! This mindset is most probably brainwashed into you and definitely is irrational. Life require production, maintenance and protection. If everyone does only production, who will do other jobs?