Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

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I posted official USMC and US Army studies on this very issue conducted from 2012 - 15. Please post evidence to the contrary or shut up!
You provided statistical.
Mind it, I used a word "convention" there for a reason. Besides few constraints with body parts, there's no difference.
Or you may come up with a proof which biologically reflects the gap of capabilities.
Which is why all you need is a wounded woman to doom an entire squad. A sniper sees her hips and bun protruding from the helmet and opens fire. Men then make a conga line towards the wounded chick and suffer more casualties. Add to the fact the screaming and crying of a woman as she dies will give your entire squad PTSD.
That's what I called convention to be taken care of!
P.S: Request Mods to move conversation to appropriate thread. Thnx Mods = Gods! :biggrin2:
Reply in PM for that. ;
Women are good for some roles only, not all roles.
Not all, but they can do muxh more than they provided. Snipers, pilots or sailors?

Most unfit unit for them is infantry because of heavier butts and breasts.
 

vampyrbladez

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Or you may come up with a proof which biologically reflects the gap of capabilities.

That's what I called convention to be taken care of!

Reply in PM for that. ;

Not all, but they can do muxh more than they provided. Snipers, pilots or sailors?

Most unfit unit for them is infantry because of heavier butts and breasts.
Dude what is he droning on about?

I posted data as proof of my arguments and he/she goes on about some fantasy world. Sniper also requires field training. It is even embedded with infantry squads as Designated Marksman.

Sailors have limited logistics and exhaustive workloads which means hauling heavy loads from point a to b and as armament crews not to mention 0 privacy and hygiene on ships as fresh water is precious.

Pilots have to deal with G forces which by sheer weight men outperform women due to greater skeletal density, once height advantage is nullified women no longer have advantage of shorter necks for blood flow during high g maneuvers. Also women as POW and going by Saurabh Kalia case will mean gruesome rape videos emerging on LiveLeak and circulating on WhatsApp groups, weakening war support amongst population.
 
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vampyrbladez

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Grip strength men vs women

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grip_strength

Induct as many women as your heart desires when we pull boots out of the ground and put machines in place.
You will always need boots on the ground. Machines can only replace heavy units. AI robots as infantry is impractical and uneconomical for warfighting units. Thus we should not compromise fighting units.
 

Advaidhya Tiwari

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You will always need boots on the ground. Machines can only replace heavy units. AI robots as infantry is impractical and uneconomical for warfighting units. Thus we should not compromise fighting units.
We will need boots on the ground. But in today's world, there is lot of scope for mechanized warfare. It is not the pilot or driver of these machines but the manufacturing of these machines that is highest priority. In war, the machines are used as first line to take all the damage for itself and hence the machines tend to get destroyed pretty soon. So, there is a need to continually supply the machines, fuel, food and ammunitions. This logistics play a very important role in modern warfare and will determine who wins or loses.

As our experience of WW2 goes, most people in Germany and USSR who died, died from starvation, not from attacks. About 3 crore soviets succumbed to starvation and few lakh German soldiers succumbed to starvation and disease due to Russian winter and supply cut off. Japan lost the war because of cutting off of fuel supply from Indo-China. Japan attacked Pearl-Harbour also because USA refused to supply oil to Japan without Japan withdrawing from China. Germany lost the war once its coal liquefaction and oil supply facilities were decisively taken out.

Even in the medieval past, it was a common strategy to surround forts and wait for the food to run out and force the people out of forts. The specialty of Shivaji because of which Marathas rose was also logistical warfare. Shivaji used to raid the food and supplies of Mughal soldiers while they were marching on the way, poison the wells and vacate all locals and food stores from the area and the Mughals would simply starve to death.

So, mass production of machines, fuel, food and ammunition must not be ignored. Women can play a role in farming, factory work and other logistical work. These works are not highlighted by media but they form the backbone of every army without which no matter how trained or string the soldiers are, the war is lost. At any point of time, for every one soldier fighting, there is a need for 10 people working in logistics. In these logistical activities, women can be employed and made good use of too.
 

binayak95

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Who is here advocating putting women in combat roles? I am not. But women are inherently better at CERTAIN roles. Why do you think Logistics/ATC/SIGINT/Training/Medics have women by default. The point the IN has been trying to make is to induct enlisted women into these roles. NOT COMBAT ops.

And no, we are not the West. The values and ethos of our military are far more exemplary than the jarheads of the USMC. We protected Italian women from US and French troops during the Sicilian campaign and later near Monte Cassino - if our boys back in 19-fucking-44 did this, you can well imagine the standards now.
 

Suryavanshi

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And no, we are not the West. The values and ethos of our military are far more exemplary than the jarheads of the USMC. We protected Italian women from US and French troops during the Sicilian campaign and later near Monte Cassino - if our boys back in 19-fucking-44 did this, you can well imagine the standards now.
It's just isn't about morality.
A female companion may cause rivalry between male colleague's and no not even military is exception from this.

Keep them away from front lines and it's all okay.
Sir are you gonna make two differnet changing room bathroom and living quatrrs for women and men in a small frigate?
 

binayak95

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It's just isn't about morality.
A female companion may cause rivalry between male colleague's and no not even military is exception from this.

Keep them away from front lines and it's all okay.
Sir are you gonna make two differnet changing room bathroom and living quatrrs for women and men in a small frigate?
No one is talking of deploying women on ships - that idea was tried back in 2005-6 and junked as quickly.

And competition between male officers is pretty common - I have been witness to it - and that's not that big a deal. Doesn't really bother anyone as long as everyone behaves like an adult (most of the time).
 

vampyrbladez

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No one is talking of deploying women on ships - that idea was tried back in 2005-6 and junked as quickly.

And competition between male officers is pretty common - I have been witness to it - and that's not that big a deal. Doesn't really bother anyone as long as everyone behaves like an adult (most of the time).
This is where you are wrong my friend. Unit cohesiveness is key. If that is lost an army will collapse. ENlisted are the backbone of the military and if SJW culture reaches there then God help us with two determined enemies sharing our borders.
 

kamaal

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GRSE shipyard lays the keel for their first P17A frigate (Yard number 3022), delivery is scheduled for 2023, MDL’s first P17A (Yard number 12651) will be delivered in 2022 to the #IndianNavy

The small model of P17A displayed during defense expo is completely different from the one shown in the background. Now I am confused which is the final design of P17A.
 

ezsasa

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Cochin Shipyard Limited (CSL) and Garden Reach Shipbuilders & Engineers (GRSE) are expecting contracts for their Anti-Submarine Warfare Shallow Water Craft within the next few weeks from the #IndianNavy

The Navy’s total requirement for 16 ASWSWC will be split between CSL and GRSE equally with both having to deliver their first vessels within 42 months of contract signing and all 8 (each) within 84 months.

GRSE’s design has an overall length of 77m, beam of 10.5m and displaces about 750 tonnes. It has elements of the X-shaped hull form used in the Kamorta-class corvette.

The CSL design is 74m, and it has a beam of 10.5. Performance figures and overall propulsion system configuration is similar for both. Both have three diesel-driven waterjet units, a top speed of 25kt and range of 1,800nm at 14kt

Combat systems include one ASW rocket launcher, two sets of torpedo tubes, small-calibre cannon, mine-laying rails, hull-mounted sonar and towed low-frequency variable-depth sonar.

CSL


GRSE






 

Prashant12

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India seeks to buy US helicopters worth Rs 13,500 crore


NEW DELHI: With the US waiver for India’s acquisition of the Russian S-400 Triumf missile systems hanging in the balance, New Delhi has kicked off the formal process for yet another mega defence deal with Washington as a sweetener for the Trump administration.

The NDA government on Thursday issued the “letter of request” to the US government for the Rs 13,500 crore acquisition of 24 naval multi-role MH-60 ‘Romeo’ helicopters, armed with torpedoes and missiles for potent anti-submarine warfare capabilities, said top sources.

The induction of these heavy-duty choppers in the 2020-2024 timeframe will come as a shot in the arm for the Indian Navy, whose warships are virtually bereft of such helicopters at a time when Chinese nuclear and diesel-electric submarines are making regular forays into the Indian Ocean Region.

The government-to-government deal for the MH-60 choppers, manufactured by Sikorsky-Lockheed Martin, under the US foreign military sales programme is likely to be inked within a year. The US has already notched military sales worth $17 billion to India since 2007, even overtaking Russia for three to four years during the last decade.

The FMS route is considered much swifter and cleaner than the cumbersome global tender process, which takes several years and is often derailed by allegations of corruption in India. India has brought most of its weapon systems from the US, like the C-17 Globemaster-III strategic airlifters, C-130J “Super Hercules” planes and M-777 ultralight howitzers, through FMS programme.

Acquisition of new multi-role helicopters has been pending for well over a decade, with the Navy identifying them along with submarines and minesweepers as the top three “critical operational necessities” for it. The 140-warship force has just about a dozen old Sea King and 10 Kamov-28 anti-submarine warfare helicopters.

The preliminary “acceptance of necessity” for the MH-60 choppers and the $1 billion acquisition of the American National Advanced Surface to Air Missile System-II (NASAMS-II), slated for deployment as a missile shield for New Delhi, was accorded by the Nirmala Sitharaman-led Defence Acquisitions Council just before the inaugural “two-plus-two” dialogue between India and the US here on September 6.

Both US defence secretary Jim Mattis and secretary of state Mike Pompeo have strongly argued India’s case for a “national security waiver” under CAATSA (Countering America’s Adversaries through Sanctions Act), which seeks to prevent countries from buying Russian weapons or Iranian oil, for its $5.43 billion S-400 missile deal.

But the final call still has to be taken by President Donald Trump, who will need a transactional quid pro quo in terms of a major Indian defence deal as well as India’s strategic commitment to progressively reduce its dependence on Russian weapon systems.

The US, of course, is in contention for more Indian defence deals. Washington, for instance, is aggressively hawking its F/A-18 or F-16 fighter production line for the IAF’s over $20 billion “Make in India” competition for 114 jets as well as the Navy’s quest for 57 carrier-capable fighters.

India and the US are also in advanced talks for 22 armed Predator-B or weaponised Sea Guardian drones. Then, after the first 24 multi-role helicopters, the Navy also has long-term “Make in India” projects for another 123 such choppers as well as 111 armed light utility choppers.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...worth-rs-13500-crore/articleshow/66644244.cms
 

G10

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:biggrin2:Google earth/maps karwar base images goes back to old ones.
 

ezsasa

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India's naval chief: "We can match what forces China can bring to bear in the [Indian Ocean Region]. But in the South China Sea, the dice is loaded in their favor."

Q. China recently deployed a submarine on patrol in the IOR, its eighth in 10 years. Are you now better placed to track them? "Yes. We tracked the submarine as it was entering the IOR. The Boeing P8-I (long range maritime patrol aircraft) is a great force multiplier."

Q. Does the South China Sea remain an area of concern for us? "Of course, it is. The government has been talking of the Indo-Pacific arena, the international rules-based order, the Freedom of Navigation of the Seas; an international rules-based order needs to be followed by all"

India's naval chief: A BECA pact "provides for 'no cost’ exchange of controlled geospatial products, data and services. The Indian military will have access to the US military standards navigation and mission planning systems...The agreement is under examination by stakeholders."

India CENTCOM liaison update: "earlier proposal was to have a liaison officer. On September 18, the gov't cleared the setting up of a new defence wing at the Indian embassy in Bahrain where the defence attache, a naval captain, will double up as our representative in the NAVCENT"



 

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