Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Anupu]

The P-17A will have two separate masts, the front one with the MF-STAR and the rear one with whatever 3-D volumn search radar is selected, most likely Selex RAN-40L. The artist impression you showed was accurate in that regard.

But for IN, an ideal integrated mast would have both the fire-control radar and the volumn-search radar within a single structure assembly, like this;

^^ Such a setup would eliminate the need to have two masts, greatly reducing the ship's signature, also saving a lot of space. The reason why they could not be implemented earlier is probably because as of now there are no such integrated mast offerings with the MFSTAR radar. Hopefully in the next 5 years, more solutions will be available.

Thanks for clearing that up. So it will look a bit cleaner, any improvement in stealth in project 28 A?

 

[Gessler]

Thanks for clearing that up. So it will look a bit cleaner, any improvement in stealth in project 28 A?

P 28A and anything related to it are just pure speculation at this point. It'll be a while before a follow-up to the Kamorta is actually sanctioned.

 

[Anupu]

P 28A and anything related to it are just pure speculation at this point. It'll be a while before a follow-up to the Kamorta is actually sanctioned.

Yeah! buy the way I googled and went through the latest thread on Trishul, now I am very depressed.

 

[warrior monk]

Prasun K sengupta said this in his blog

Blogger Prasun K. Sengupta said...
Just got back from a hectic 5-day working-trip to Russia during which the following were visited:

JSC Rubin Central Marine Engineering Design Bureau (SKB-18) in St Petereburg
JSC Afrikantov Experimental Design Bureau for Mechanical Engineering (OKBM) Nizhny Novgorod
Izhorsky Zavod, at Kolpino, near St Petersburg & the Nizhny Novgorod Machine-Building Plant
Concern AVRORA Scientific and Production Association JSC in St Petersburg

The Ruskies are coming with a bang!!! The above-mentioned companies have frozen the design of a 4++ generation single-hulled SSN that Russia will be series-producing at the Amursky Yard (formerly shipyard No. 199) at Komosomolsk-na-Amur in the Far east. And this very SSN is most likely to be selected by the IN for series-producing by Larsen & Toubro at Kattupalli. This SSN will use several India-made sub-systems & components already on-board the S-2/Arihant, meaning the 2,500-odd Indian OEMs who are already certified to produce Russia-IPR-owned sub-systems & components will be able to do the same for the SSNs as well, thereby resulting in significant cost-savings. The Integrated PWR will have life of 36 years & will be rated at 45mW Thermal. Submerged displacement of this SSN will be close to 5,000 tonnes. All-electric propulsion system will be used, thereby doing away with clutches, reduction gear & transmission coupling for the propeller. It will be qualified to launched both 533mm torpedoes & BrahMos-NG ASCMs from torpedo-tubes. If the Govt of India later this year inks this landmark deal, then the Russian OEMs will immediately start sending the detailed design drawings done with Dassault's CATIA software CAD software to L & T, which in turn will commence a virtual design of this SSN at its virtual-reality submarine design facility.

In addition, all R & D work has been completed by OKBM on a 175mW Thermal Integrated PWR & all-electric propulsion system that will be offered for the IAC-2 project.

Will resume blogging later today after catching up on some urgently-need sleep.

Meanwhile, all those 'desi' pubby/shubby/unni journalists spreading rumours about the IN leasing Project 885 Yasen-class or Project 971 Kashalot SSGNs, EAT SHIIIIIIIIITTTTTT!!!

March 23, 2016 at 5:26 AM

Blogger Prasun K. Sengupta said...
The older photo was that of a derivative of the Project 971B SSGN. The SSN has been designed by RUBIN. It will be hydrodynamically more sleeker & will externally resemble the Project 705 Lira Alfa-class SSN. But the new SSN will be lighter & sleeker as it will be single-hulled & it will have far greater automation features. For instance, it will have photonic masts (most probably from THALES) & no periscopes, which in turn eliminates the traditional helmsman, planesman, chief-of-the-watch and diving officer by combining them into two stations manned by only two officers. The 46mW Thermal 4th-generation PWR was tested way back in 2006 by RUBIN & OKBM & has since been considerably refined. It was originally developed to cater to the Russian Navy’s reqmt for a new-generation SSN that will protect the flanks of the Project 955 SSBNs as pure hunter-killers, leaving the Project 885 SSGNs nto focus exclusively on shadowing & targetting hostile carrier battle-groups. For it must be recalled that the former USSR always operated several types of third-generation SSNs, & the most prolific of them were the Project 671 Yorsh, Project 671RT Syomga & Project 671RTM Shchuka SSNs—all of which have been decommissioned & require replacements.

Blogger Prasun K. Sengupta said...
It will be spherical sonars for both SSNs as well as all other future warships of the IN as well. That's precisely why the cylindrical-array HUMSA is being rejected by the IN, which believes that the DRDO does not possess any expertise on spherical sonar R & D & all future sonar suites for warships b& submarines will be imported, most probably from France's THALES. Rubis has 48mW Thermal PWR. For running a 5,000-tonne SSN, 25mW Electric is all that's reqd.

Blogger Prasun K. Sengupta said...
No, such 20% rules don't apply because the overall power output in mWe depends on 1) the PWR's energy density , i.e. what combination of LEU & HEU is used to make up the fissile core; & 2) the thermal efficiency of the heat-exchanger. In fact, land-based reactor efficiency too is undergoing enhancements to super-thermal levels due to advances in heat-exchanger technologies. In any PWR for SSNs or SSGNs or SSBNs, the fissile core is n ever 100% HEU or 100% LEU. It is an optimum mixture of both depending on the thermal efficiency demands of the heat-exchanger. In other words, the most sensitive technology is not so much the PWR design, but the sophistication of the heat-exchanger.

March 23, 2016 at 10:27 PM

Blogger Prasun K. Sengupta said...
BTW, Larsen & Toubro's virtual-reality submarine design centre is in Gurgaon & has been operational since 2006. In fact, it was developed jointly with RUBIN.

March 24, 2016 at 3:15 AM

Few Anomalies

First I don't think that a 45 MwT reactor core will provide 35 000 shp power for propulsion and its not even a HEU reactor . The reactor will not generate enough power density to transfer the power for such propulsion . If it is MEU reactor which it will be there is no way it can achieve the burnup needed for such power generation.

Secondly India already has its own core of S2 Arihant with 20 to 45 % enrichment . Why not use it we already have worked with it and have created the fuel ,cladding and have establish suitable fuel fabrication facility for it .

If the Russians are coming with their reactor (assuming it is even true )will they transfer technology or will we have to buy it . India is not NPT signatory Russia cannot transfer us the special fuel for its core to us as it will have significant amount of U-235 in it. The fuel fabrication , the cladding , the burnable poison all will be different from our system which will have to be transferred which is ridiculous in itself seeing that we already have our own core .

36 years single refueling regime whom is he kidding . Even if the Russians have managed to create a reactor with such power density and more than 65000 MWd burnp it will definitely not be a 45 Mwt reactor . Except for KLT-40 Servomopurt no Russian reactor has such high burnup because Russians don’t need it as they have ample amount of HEU , MEU and blended tails of Ur in various enrichment levels.

It is hard to believe Russians are creating a 60s era sub designing concept of the Alfa-class which was essentially used for chasing down surface combat platforms which had a speed of 40 knots which is not possible seeing the size of the reactor , the power levels required etc . It is mostly an outdated concept nowadays when navies around the world are going on integrated SSN/SSGN our IN is aiming for 60s era concept . Anybody thinks it can take on 095 SSNs of PLAN ?? It used overpriced Titanium hull for operating at crush depths and for evading MAD what kind of metal will be used in the Hull .

The Rubis is a 2600 tonne submerged SSN not 5000 tonnes so it requires a less powerful reactor .

And who said that 20% rule is not applied here ?? What is this LEU-HEU fuel core . The fuel is mostly U-Al alloy , U-Zr in Zr-cladding etc in fuel channels each channel having a number of fuel rods .
Its thermal efficency depends upon the specific heat of the fuel as well as thermal conductivity of the fuel , core coolant inlet temperature , core coolant outlet temperature , operating pressure of the primary circuit , coolant flow rate , output pressure of the steam generators etc.

 

[Anupu]

P 28A and anything related to it are just pure speculation at this point. It'll be a while before a follow-up to the Kamorta is actually sanctioned.

Found this it was shown on a L&T stall in 2010 DefExpo what does this look like?

 

[bengalraider]

Found this it was shown on a L&T stall in 2010 DefExpo what does this look like?

Sure looks a lot like an Israeli SA'AR 5.

 

[Anupu]

Sure looks a lot like an Israeli SA'AR 5.

Yes, but the bow is different and there are no RBU-6000 on SA'AR 5.

 

[aditya g]

Actually its the Kamorta that looks a lot like a Saar-5. But then even German MEKO designs use the same hull form. In any case Kamorta is a stealthy ship.

L&T's corvette design is broadly equivalent to Project-28 in capability.

 

[MKM]

Google image search shows it
GRSE ASW Shallow Water Craft.
700 tons to replace older corvettes.

 

[Anupu]

Google image search shows it
GRSE ASW Shallow Water Craft.
700 tons to replace older corvettes.

Makes sense, thanks .................

 

[Superdefender]

IS IT TRUE? IF NOT, IS IT POSSIBLE?
Project 18-class destroyers are planned class of next generation destroyers of Indian Navy. The destroyers are of the type: stealth guided missile destroyer. For the project Kakinada Shipyard in collaboration with Mazagon Dock and L&T Shipbuilding will lay keel for 9,000 tons of displacement of vessel. Project 18-class destroyers will be equipped with advanced systems such as electromagnetic guns, laser-based CIWS, advanced AESA and PESA radars, and active and passive array sonars.

For the project, DRDO in collaboration with Bharat Electronics will be designing next generation of radar systems to be incorporated into the planned 18-class. The already developed AMDS will be worked on further. The AESA and PESA radars will see extended ranges, and possible merger into one multi-band radar. The destroyer will also have an X-band optronic mast detector radar.

Project 18-class destroyers will be able to carry enough space for a single utility helicopter. The destroyers will be equipped with advanced UCAVs and UAVs, a possible compact version to be deployed on the destroyers of the EMALS is being worked out.

The missiles vessels will see their armament equipped with ballistic missiles and hypersonic BrahMos II missile. A next generation point missile defence capable of launching BrahMos II will be worked on.

The electromagnetic gun is being researched in the DRDO labs with BEL partaking in the programme for the gun fire control systems. The destroyer is expected to fit a 64 MJ version of electromagnetic gun. Munitions for the gun are being researched on as well.

Electromagnetic gun replacing the famed Otobreda of Indian Navy, will be supported with laser based CIWS, in works in LASTEC of DRDO. The warship will be deployed with 300 kW of laser system, capable of shooting down the aerial threats. The planned CIWS will draw inspiration from the present Phalnax CIWS and have its own radar. Indian Army has also expressed interests in the project, for it wishes to mount laser based systems on its combat vehicles. Additionally, the warship will also be equipped with small 100 kW laser based weapon systems with faster charging rates and continuous rate of application.

Improvements in the planned destroyer require ample power, the destroyer's propulsion system is planned to based on IEP. L&T with DRDO will further work on long researched DRDO's programme of marine propulsion — GATET. Planned gas turbines will deliver power up to 36 MW, destroyer will be equipped with the two of planned gas turbines delivering power of 76 MW, in conjugation with two diesel generators of 10 MW each and two electric propulsion motors of 20 MW. TASL which has designed platform, bridge and combat management systems in the past will work on diesel generators and motors.

The project aims to launch the lead ship of the 18-class by 2028, and planned commissioning in 2029. Being the project of such scale, Ministry of Defence has appropriated funds of $1.5 billion for the annual budget.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Credit to SAI SREEKAR FROM IFR 2016

15-A

15-B

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Credit to SAI SREEKAR FROM IFR 2016

KOZHIKODE

KUMBHIR

TIR

PLANNED LPD

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Credit to SAI SREEKAR FROM IFR 2016

NAVAL CORVETTE

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Credit to SAI SREEKAR FROM IFR 2016

nopv pipavav

 

[MKM]

Credit to SAI SREEKAR FROM IFR 2016

15-A

View attachment 8074
View attachment 8075 View attachment 8076 View attachment 8077
15-B
View attachment 8078 View attachment 8079 View attachment 8080

It seems P15A & P15B both will have same arms???

 

[MKM]

Credit to SAI SREEKAR FROM IFR 2016

NAVAL CORVETTE
View attachment 8087 View attachment 8088

Well P59 is INS Sumitra... Saryu class Offshore Patrol Vessel..

 

[Illusive]

It seems P15A & P15B both will have same arms???

Yes, they were designed to be integrated with same weaponary, the only difference between P15 A&B is the type of construction method. A uses traditional shipbuilding method while B is the newer modular construction.

 

[Anupu]

Credit to SAI SREEKAR FROM IFR 2016

KOZHIKODE
View attachment 8081

KUMBHIR
View attachment 8082

TIR

View attachment 8083
PLANNED LPD
View attachment 8084 View attachment 8085 View attachment 8086

Looks a lot like mistral.... was it DCNS stall?

 

[Illusive]

Looks a lot like mistral.... was it DCNS stall?

It is, if you look closely in the last pic there is a DCNS logo on the table.