Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Superdefender]

@garg_bharat, all of the frigates you mentioned are constructed earlier! Cost increases as per year increase. The cost of a Nimitz AC in 2016 will always be much higher than that of 90's. You have to keep in mind that displacement of P17A is 6,000-6,500 tn! It is at the upper end of Frigate designation. For some navies, it is a freaking powerful destroyer! And it is a superior stealth one too. Try to build one P17A Frigate in US, Spain, Brazil, Germany or whatever country and see how that costs them more than $2 billion each in today's price.

 

[Superdefender]

Can you please provide the source for the article. I would like to know where this was published.

Sure, why not.....
Here is the link: http://www.myind.net/indian-navy-spreads-its-wings-part-1

 

[garg_bharat]

Hey man no need to be so pessimistic about it. These weapons may get destroyed in the 1st day of war, true. But they also serve the purpose of DETERRING any conflict in the first place.

I am tired of this "deterring" business. It is unfortunate that senior officers are parroting this word.
A fighting ship is only for one business, and that is fighting a war.

The nukes were for deterrence, and we have seen limits of that as well.

The list I gave in link are not old ships. These are current projects.

 

[garg_bharat]

@garg_bharat, all of the frigates you mentioned are constructed earlier! Cost increases as per year increase. The cost of a Nimitz AC in 2016 will always be much higher than that of 90's. You have to keep in mind that displacement of P17A is 6,000-6,500 tn! It is at the upper end of Frigate designation. For some navies, it is a freaking powerful destroyer! And it is a superior stealth one too. Try to build one P17A Frigate in US, Spain, Brazil, Germany or whatever country and see how that costs them more than $2 billion each in today's price.

India is a low cost manufacturer, including engineering.
There is no reason why the ship must cost so much.

 

[Superdefender]

India is a low cost manufacturer, including engineering.
There is no reason why the ship must cost so much.

India is a low cost manufacturer, including engineering.
There is no reason why the ship must cost so much.

If one P17A will be built in any country in the North America, Europe or South America, the cost will be always more than $2 billion. I will be not surprised if cost escalates to $3 billion each in some country. INS Vishakapatnam is the most economical destroyer in its weight class (except one or two). I am sure you will agree that USS Gerald Ford can be built in half of price in India. Considering these, I think the price of each P17A is right.

 

[garg_bharat]

If one P17A will be built in any country in the North America, Europe or South America, the cost will be always more than $2 billion. I will be not surprised if cost escalates to $3 billion each in some country. INS Vishakapatnam is the most economical destroyer in its weight class (except one or two). I am sure you will agree that USS Gerald Ford can be built in half of price in India. Considering these, I think the price of each P17A is right.

I am not so sure.
Can you give examples with data?

 

[indiandefencefan]

Sure, why not.....
Here is the link: http://www.myind.net/indian-navy-spreads-its-wings-part-1

thanks
.......................................... 30 char.

 

[garg_bharat]

Not this. Of similar ships.

The problem with the concept is that it is like cruiser but lacks aviation. It is jack of all trades. So it has to operate in a group, for which it is overbuilt.

 

[Illusive]

There will be no "P-15C" it will be an entirely new class of vessel. The Delhis and P-15A/B are effectively the same hull design with successive upgrades in tech but the footprint remains the same. There is specualted to be a "P-18 DDG" under design that will be signifcantly larger than the P-15s.

I hope instead of going for simply larger vessels, IN goes for vessels that takes less personal to operate with high firepower and better start development for next gen air defence.

 

[shiphone]

errrr.....watching for a while...LOL...the baseless empty talking and building-up in the brain are always funny...
--------------------------
North American - USA...Arleigh Burke-class destroyer (Flight IIA: Technology Insertion)...a 9200-ton full displacement classic/advanced destroyer

the arranged fund for DDG-116 and the following since FY2015...10 vessels for around 16 billion...BTW, you also might be able to have a check the price of SSN774,LCS..etc...

--------------
at this stage ,so called low cost manufacturing in India or the high Localization rate of IN ships is a phantom...think it over you should... and then, you may say: 'the price of P17A is right' which I totally agree..

 

[garg_bharat]

I am sure the government also wants to find out why these ships are costing so much?

What has happened between 2004 and 2014?

 

[garg_bharat]

Frigates do not need long range Sam. Frigate should have gun and anti ship missiles, and basic asw.

These frigates are overbuilt, but lack both range and aviation. Such frigate cannot lead a group. So it is still limited by its size while brimming with weapons, which it may never use.

 

[Superdefender]

I am not so sure.
Can you give examples with data?

Which data? Be more specific. Are you asking about INS Vishakapatnam and its similar weight class ships cost comparison?

 

[Superdefender]

Frigates do not need long range Sam. Frigate should have gun and anti ship missiles, and basic asw.

These frigates are overbuilt, but lack both range and aviation. Such frigate cannot lead a group. So it is still limited by its size while brimming with weapons, which it may never use.

I have already told P17-A frigates are 6,000 tn Destroyers disguised as Frigates. Their arnaments will be atleast same as those of P15B Destroyers. How will they be oversized and less effective?

 

[shankyz]

$ 1.3 Billion each for follow-on orders of almost the same design as P17 using so-called modular construction methods in a low-cost country like India - not cheap. P15 has a much powerful radar system (MF-STAR) than P17A, more multi-role capabilities, more tonnage. Arleigh Burke class DDG with Aegis costs around $ 1.8 Billion. Let's hope they are inducted on time in 2022.

Sent from Moto G using Tapatalk

 

[rohit b3]

FRIGATES

Absalon (Denmark)-$269 million

Bertholf National Security Cutter-$641 million

F100 Bazan (Spain)-$600 million

F105 Cristobal Colon (Spain)-$954 million

De Zeven Provincien (Netherlands)-$532 million

FREMM (Franco/Italian)-$745 million

LCS Freedom-$637 million

Holland (Netherlands)-$169 million

LCS Independence-$704 million

Iver Huitfeldt (Denmark)-$332 millon

Nansen (Norway)-$557 million

Sachsen Type 124 (Germany)-$1.06 billion

Valour MEKO A200 (South Africa)-$327 million

F-22P Zulfiquar (China/Pakistan)-$200 million

https://newwars.wordpress.com/warship-costs/

Like said, those are 20 years old cost. I hope you know what inflation is.
Spain is currently building the Hobart Class Destroyers in Australia, which is based of their own F-100 Design. The cost of EACH of these Destroyers are 2.7 BILLION$.

 

[garg_bharat]

Like said, those are 20 years old cost. I hope you know what inflation is.
Spain is currently building the Hobart Class Destroyers in Australia, which is based of their own F-100 Design. The cost of EACH of these Destroyers are 2.7 BILLION$.

Please take a look at this wiki page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FREMM_multipurpose_frigate

 

[Gessler]

$ 1.3 Billion each for follow-on orders of almost the same design as P17 using so-called modular construction methods in a low-cost country like India - not cheap. P15 has a much powerful radar system (MF-STAR) than P17A, more multi-role capabilities, more tonnage. Arleigh Burke class DDG with Aegis costs around $ 1.8 Billion. Let's hope they are inducted on time in 2022.

Sent from Moto G using Tapatalk

P-17A will have the same sensor suite (including MF-STAR), CMS, and weapons fitments as P-15A, although in lesser number. On top of that, it's also likely to incorporate a new solid-state AESA volumn-search radar unlike the old LW-08 carried by P-15A.

 

[abingdonboy]

The cost is quite high. This world class swagger can get destroyed in one day in actual war.

The defence projects need audit and cost controls.

Let's not forget, these are price projections for ships that will enter service starting 2022 and thus take into account inflation. Does anyone else think you'll be able to get a >6,500 ton frigate with these kind of sensors and weapons for less than $1.3BN each in 2022? The West would be charging at least 25-30% more.

Not this. Of similar ships.

The problem with the concept is that it is like cruiser but lacks aviation. It is jack of all trades. So it has to operate in a group, for which it is overbuilt.

What do you mean by "aviation"?

I hope instead of going for simply larger vessels, IN goes for vessels that takes less personal to operate with high firepower and better start development for next gen air defence.

Automation is already being increased with each passing generation.

 

[abingdonboy]

P-17A will have the same sensor suite (including MF-STAR), CMS, and weapons fitments as P-15A, although in lesser number. On top of that, it's also likely to incorporate a new solid-state AESA volumn-search radar unlike the old LW-08 carried by P-15A.

I'd say the P-17As will carry an equal number of weapons as the P-15As but not the P-15Bs and the P-17As may have a 127mm main gun (like the P-15B) and should have a new generation gun CIWS (replacing the AK-306)..