Indian Economy: News and Discussion

[SKC]

Rwanda is used as an example to show how collective effort can yield results. Not too long ago, the country had collapsed under a civil war. Today they have bounced back and have become an epicenter of business in Africa.

They have something called as "Umuganda " ie mandatory monthly community service for all citizens whereby they have to participate in cleaning activities once a week. There is a very hefty fine for throwing your garbage here are there. More importantly, the Rwandan government has invested heavily in efficient drainage systems and Urban management because of which today Kigali looks the way it is.

Likewise, I can give you numerous examples of cities of poorer Central Asian, South American, and South East Asian countries that are aesthetically much better than our mainstream cities.

Those kinds of collective efforts work there but can't everywhere outside Rwanda which is 125 times smaller than India and population 1.4 billion less than us.
Same glorified and clean city has unpaved roads and streets too.
You will find equally beautiful and lean roads and city areas in India too.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

We are well past that stage.

We were threatened that all KPO/BPO will move to Philippines during 2010-12 era. Nothing happened. They can talk with US accent, but they lack the technical and troubleshooting skills we have.

I always wondered why countries like Indonesia and Philippines didn't replicate our IT industry. It's relatively easy to produce large numbers of low wage software engineers for any country with a half decent education sector and a large population.

 

[MuffleParch]

I always wondered why countries like Indonesia and Philippines didn't replicate our IT industry. It's relatively easy to produce large numbers of low wage software engineers for any country with a half decent education sector and a large population.

I will give you my experience. I lead dev teams in some of these South East Asian countries. They just don't have ambition to learn new things and scale up. No sense of urgency.

 

[Crazywithmath]

https://www.reuters.com/world/india/high-real-rate-impeding-indias-growth-goals-committee-member-varma-2024-02-23/

So many truth bombs;

A high real interest rate in India could prevent private investments from picking up and hold the country back from achieving its true growth potential, an external member of the monetary policy committee said on Friday.
Professor Jayant Varma, who was the sole dissenter at the February monetary policy meeting when the MPC held rates steady at 6.50%, voted for the repo rate to be cut by 25 basis points.

"India's growth is robust when compared to the rest of the world, but not when compared to our potential or to our aspirations," Varma said in an interview.

"When 4.25% average growth rate since the pandemic is touted as robust growth rate, that reflects a grave lack of confidence in India's growth potential. I do not subscribe to this growth pessimism."

Varma said the potential growth rate of the economy is at least 8% - based on all the reforms and infrastructure investment in recent years and there is still some growth required to close the post-pandemic output gap.

Good to see someone calling them out.

 

[ezsasa]

https://www.reuters.com/world/india/high-real-rate-impeding-indias-growth-goals-committee-member-varma-2024-02-23/

So many truth bombs;




Good to see someone calling them out.

and what was the argument for not changing the rate?

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

It seems this is the first time you're here and got a huge shock. Did you really expect India to be like South east asian countries in terms of infra and cleanliness? Remember that we're a $2.7k per capita country, there's a long road ahead.

Yo…i live in indias for most time of the year. I do go to the US quite a lot. This is the first time I went to rural areas in borderline upper income countries like just $1Ok-12k. What shocked me on return is that backward and remote areas of such countries have better infrastructure than our so-called Tier 1 cities. Of course I don’t compare with the US or high income countries with greater than $30 or 40k per capita, as that is a total lost cause.

 

[Crazywithmath]

and what was the argument for not changing the rate?

Given that the advanced estimates have pegged nominal growth below 10% for FY 2023-24 and WPI is barely avoiding deflation, their rationale just does not seem convincing enough;

https://www.reuters.com/world/india/majority-indias-rate-panel-believe-current-policy-appropriate-minutes-show-2024-02-22/

A few possibilities exist;

1. RBI is waiting for Fed.
2. As someone has already pointed out, the RBI might be tinkering with credit growth through rates.

 

[ezsasa]

Yo…i live in indias for most time of the year. I do go to the US quite a lot. This is the first time I went to rural areas in borderline upper income countries like just $1Ok-12k. What shocked me on return is that backward and remote areas of such countries have better infrastructure than our so-called Tier 1 cities. Of course I don’t compare with the US or high income countries with greater than $30 or 40k per capita, as that is a total lost cause.

for your own peace of mind, better not enter India till 2047.

 

[Crazywithmath]

 

[Blademaster]

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Great read!



Really? You sure you are not mistaken?

Unless my very own eyes deceive me, yes I am not mistaken.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

for your own peace of mind, better not enter India till 2047.

Frankly there is a solution. It is really not a question of money but absence of professional talent at city levels. Here is my solution.
1. Create a service called Urban Planning and Development Service - UPDS -like the IAS. Train the staff well in foreign urban planning and policy institutes. Pay them top rupees on line of top IAS secretaries. Make the service prestigious.
2. Make sure all top 100 -200 cities have a robust urban development authority. Put these people as the head of such authorities. They should draft up 10-year city master plans and be 100% responsible for getting the city to meet targets set in these plans.
3. Nominate top citizens especially ones with expertise as part of the municipal bodies. Decent people never get elected to municipal councils, only local rowdies do. These people would form a council that would approve city development projects and be responsible for city finances.
4. Clean up the city finances and reduce corruption by digitizing quite a lot. Contractors should be rated by the UPDS staff on quality of construction and maintenance. Tenders should be only given to top tier contractors.
5. Collect service charges for city services properly. Establish a stable revenue stream. Use that revenue stream to get the city credit rated and raise debt through accredited municipal bonds.
6. Use the internal revenues and debt proceeds to build infrastructure and maintain them. Increase mechanized services for road cleaning, waste removal, road maintenance, water and drainage maintenance etc.
7. Introduce a re-education system where citizens compulsorily need to go to a center and get trained on what is the behavior needed to live in top cities. In return you can get a voucher for 1 week‘s food supply or something like that.
8. Declare top 5 cities as UTs with a special fund setup to develop them to world class standards - top 25 cities in the world. This will take a lot of money but to develop such magnet cities is super important.

All of the above are just policy and political reforms and really require very little monetary resources. There will be resistance and this is where someone like Modi needs to put his foot down and say this is how we will do it. There is no choice. You need an iron hand to suppress the useless noise in India.

 

[another_armchair]

Yo…i live in indias for most time of the year. I do go to the US quite a lot. This is the first time I went to rural areas in borderline upper income countries like just $1Ok-12k. What shocked me on return is that backward and remote areas of such countries have better infrastructure than our so-called Tier 1 cities. Of course I don’t compare with the US or high income countries with greater than $30 or 40k per capita, as that is a total lost cause.

Been to Tanzania and stayed at Dar-Es-Salam. Paved roads end outside the city.

Those who can afford it feel its better to take a private flight than travel by road because it is a never ending stretch of mud trail.

City infra looks good because there is hardly any traffic when compared to India where almost every household has a two wheeler and a good number of them hit the main roads during peak travel time making a 10+ laned Hosur road look like a 'nukkad ki gulley'.

 

[Jimih]

View attachment 241659

Wealth Distribution = Communism

Well what a fall from being a Centre/Centre-Left party to totally shifting towards Far Left.

 

[Crazywithmath]

Wealth Distribution = Communism

Well what a fall from being a Centrist party to totally shifting towards Radical Left.

They only pretended to be 'centrist'. It is the true homecoming of INC - going back to being far-left! PVNR was an anomaly - that's all.

 

[Jimih]

I will give you my experience. I lead dev teams in some of these South East Asian countries. They just don't have ambition to learn new things and scale up. No sense of urgency.

Yeah myself felt this too.

 

[Jimih]

Looks like Decision has been made

 

[ezsasa]

Frankly there is a solution. It is really not a question of money but absence of professional talent at city levels. Here is my solution.
1. Create a service called Urban Planning and Development Service - UPDS -like the IAS. Train the staff well in foreign urban planning and policy institutes. Pay them top rupees on line of top IAS secretaries. Make the service prestigious.
2. Make sure all top 100 -200 cities have a robust urban development authority. Put these people as the head of such authorities. They should draft up 10-year city master plans and be 100% responsible for getting the city to meet targets set in these plans.
3. Nominate top citizens especially ones with expertise as part of the municipal bodies. Decent people never get elected to municipal councils, only local rowdies do. These people would form a council that would approve city development projects and be responsible for city finances.
4. Clean up the city finances and reduce corruption by digitizing quite a lot. Contractors should be rated by the UPDS staff on quality of construction and maintenance. Tenders should be only given to top tier contractors.
5. Collect service charges for city services properly. Establish a stable revenue stream. Use that revenue stream to get the city credit rated and raise debt through accredited municipal bonds.
6. Use the internal revenues and debt proceeds to build infrastructure and maintain them. Increase mechanized services for road cleaning, waste removal, road maintenance, water and drainage maintenance etc.
7. Introduce a re-education system where citizens compulsorily need to go to a center and get trained on what is the behavior needed to live in top cities. In return you can get a voucher for 1 week‘s food supply or something like that.
8. Declare top 5 cities as UTs with a special fund setup to develop them to world class standards - top 25 cities in the world. This will take a lot of money but to develop such magnet cities is super important.

All of the above are just policy and political reforms and really require very little monetary resources. There will be resistance and this is where someone like Modi needs to put his foot down and say this is how we will do it. There is no choice. You need an iron hand to suppress the useless noise in India.

it's ok mate, don't stress out. it's understandable that since are a well wisher of the country.

 

[Blademaster]

Frankly there is a solution. It is really not a question of money but absence of professional talent at city levels. Here is my solution.
1. Create a service called Urban Planning and Development Service - UPDS -like the IAS. Train the staff well in foreign urban planning and policy institutes. Pay them top rupees on line of top IAS secretaries. Make the service prestigious.
2. Make sure all top 100 -200 cities have a robust urban development authority. Put these people as the head of such authorities. They should draft up 10-year city master plans and be 100% responsible for getting the city to meet targets set in these plans.
3. Nominate top citizens especially ones with expertise as part of the municipal bodies. Decent people never get elected to municipal councils, only local rowdies do. These people would form a council that would approve city development projects and be responsible for city finances.
4. Clean up the city finances and reduce corruption by digitizing quite a lot. Contractors should be rated by the UPDS staff on quality of construction and maintenance. Tenders should be only given to top tier contractors.
5. Collect service charges for city services properly. Establish a stable revenue stream. Use that revenue stream to get the city credit rated and raise debt through accredited municipal bonds.
6. Use the internal revenues and debt proceeds to build infrastructure and maintain them. Increase mechanized services for road cleaning, waste removal, road maintenance, water and drainage maintenance etc.
7. Introduce a re-education system where citizens compulsorily need to go to a center and get trained on what is the behavior needed to live in top cities. In return you can get a voucher for 1 week‘s food supply or something like that.
8. Declare top 5 cities as UTs with a special fund setup to develop them to world class standards - top 25 cities in the world. This will take a lot of money but to develop such magnet cities is super important.

All of the above are just policy and political reforms and really require very little monetary resources. There will be resistance and this is where someone like Modi needs to put his foot down and say this is how we will do it. There is no choice. You need an iron hand to suppress the useless noise in India.

I just concluded my visit to India. Overall I had a positive experience but I also experienced some disappointments. For example being, I saw so much trashed all along the highways of India when I traveled from Delhi to Haridwar and from Delhi to Corbett Park. The level of pollution and strewn trash is stunning. Don't state and local governments have budgets to include highway cleanup, trash pickup, and road repair & maintenance. Also lawn & median maintenance business is a huge unrealized business opportunity and can be if utilized properly be a jobs creator for millions of poor people, not to mention an untapped market for leaf blowers, trimmers, weed whackers, and mechanized road cleaner vehicles. Road repair & maintenance crews could be also a good source of job employment. You can set up verification of work timely completed in satisfactory manner by using aerial drones with sufficient imaging recognition software and AI to verify quality and on time completion.

As the French famously said, "We may not have resources but we have resourcefulness"

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

I just concluded my visit to India. Overall I had a positive experience but I also experienced some disappointed. For example being, I saw so much trashed all along the highways of India when I traveled from Delhi to Haridwar and from Delhi to Corbett Park. The level of pollution and strewn trash is stunning. Don't state and local governments have budgets to include highway cleanup, trash pickup, and road repair & maintenance. Also lawn & median maintenance business is a huge unrealized business opportunity and can be if utilized properly be a jobs creator for millions of poor people, not to mention an untapped market for leaf blowers, trimmers, weed whackers, and mechanized road cleaner vehicles. Road repair & maintenance crews could be also a good source of job employment. You can set up verification of work timely completed in satisfactory manner by using aerial drones with sufficient imaging recognition software and AI to verify quality and on time completion.

As the French famously said, "We may not have resources but we have resourcefulness"

Yes. I feel that too. Several businesses are missing in India - like landscaping companies, rental management agencies, city Garbage collection services, road maintenance services, car wash, spas, professional cleaners, nail salons, wellness spas, high street retail, installation services, fitness juice bars, dog groomers, laundromats, many repair services and so many more. All these can generate crores of jobs for youth and make everyone’s lives way easier. A lot of entrepreneurship is missing in basic services. Entrepreneurship doesn’t mean just IT, space, robotics or any STEM field. Basic services also need proper businesses to be run.

 

[ezsasa]

I just concluded my visit to India. Overall I had a positive experience but I also experienced some disappointments. For example being, I saw so much trashed all along the highways of India when I traveled from Delhi to Haridwar and from Delhi to Corbett Park. The level of pollution and strewn trash is stunning. Don't state and local governments have budgets to include highway cleanup, trash pickup, and road repair & maintenance. Also lawn & median maintenance business is a huge unrealized business opportunity and can be if utilized properly be a jobs creator for millions of poor people, not to mention an untapped market for leaf blowers, trimmers, weed whackers, and mechanized road cleaner vehicles. Road repair & maintenance crews could be also a good source of job employment. You can set up verification of work timely completed in satisfactory manner by using aerial drones with sufficient imaging recognition software and AI to verify quality and on time completion.

As the French famously said, "We may not have resources but we have resourcefulness"

No, state and local govt don't have budgets for those sort of things.
delhi to haridwar, wasn't there a expressway construction happening next to the current road?