Indian diplomat arrested, handcuffed in US for visa fraud

sayareakd

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She was not arrested in front of her kids. She was arrested in front of her kids' school. Two different things.

She also was not handcuffed contrary o reports in Indian media.
Ok let say when she left her kid at school when she was arrested still this is not different from what i have said. Kid will know that mom was arrested either way be same.

just because you dont like the way events turn out does not mean you keep thinking negative about all this.
 

ladder

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But, the court said, "if the acts charged in the indictment were not 'performed in the exercise of official functions,' then there is currently no bar to a new indictment".

.........................but prosecutors suggested they might refile the charges stemming from claims she exploited her housekeeper.
US dismisses criminal charges against Devyani Khobragade - Hindustan Times

US to seek new indictment against Indian diplomat - The Washington Post

========================

Both the statements are important and related to each other.

Prosecutes this time want to play it safe it seems and may drop the contentious issues, which could come under official acts immunity.
 
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happy

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Where is the scope, when both are on official passports it means both are working on their official jobs. So I guess PB's case is as good as dead. Now I want DK to file as many cases as she can think of against PB and DoS along with their cohorts who facilitated SR escapade.

Just consider this quote:

In its reply, the Indian Embassy said that Ms. Richard's allegations against her former employer "are issues that are relevant to the relationship between the Government of India and its employees" and "not subject to U.S. regulation or adjudication".

The embassy added that the Delhi High Court was had issued an anti-suit injunction restraining Ms. Richard from approaching any U.S. court and "It cannot be the argument of any party that a foreign government must adjudicate in a matter between Indian citizens that stands placed before the judiciary of India."

The embassy further exhorted the State Department to help facilitate the repatriation of Ms. Richard to India, arguing, "It is evident that the purpose of Ms. Richard's consent to a contractual agreement"¦ was apparently intended only to find a way to illegally immigrate to the U.S."

http://www.thehindu.com/news/intern...ia-questioned-us-authority/article5698046.ece
 
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asianobserve

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Ok let say when she left her kid at school when she was arrested still this is not different from what i have said. Kid will know that mom was arrested either way be same.
I just want to correct the widespread misrepresentation of events that I think contributed greatly to the very emotional response in India to this incident.

Definitely, the kids will come to know about the arrest of their mother later on.


just because you dont like the way events turn out does not mean you keep thinking negative about all this.
No. I'm satisfied with the turn of events. I think looking now at the reasoning of the judge I am now convinced that at least at the time of her indictment Ms. Khobragade was already covered by immunity. What I am not satisfied on the other hand is that it seems that the judge has not answered all the questions on immunity, she only concerned herself with the issue of: whether or not Ms. Khobragade was covered by immunity at the time she was indicted.

So expect another round of legal drama. Mr. Bharara is showing the same dogged tenacity as the nationalist Indians in thsi forum.
 

pmaitra

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Why you don't believe that this ruling illustrates the soundness of the rule of law in America?
Because I belong to an independent country, not only in letter, but also in spirit. What is legal in one country could be illegal in another.

Why does the world have to follow "the American way?"
 

pmaitra

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Can someone please provide the links to the official court documents, so that we can put an end to the speculation, and comments with words like "perhaps," "maybe," "have you considered," etc.?

Thanks.
 

ladder

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Where is the scope, when both are on official passports it means both are working on their official jobs. So I guess PB's case is as good as dead. Now I want DK to file as many cases as she can think of against PB and DoS along with their cohorts who facilitated SR escapade.
Scope at-least is the same as were to Neena Malhotra and Prabhu Dayal case. The base is the same. Those were civil cases. And now we have to see what will be the nature of charges (criminal) on which indictment is sought. If not civil case against her is a near surety. If nothing else that would stop DK from filing civil suits against US govt. till that case is over. ( or she receives grant from court to do so).

So, I am not commenting on the outcome but on the process.
 

ladder

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Can someone please provide the links to the official court documents, so that we can put an end to the speculation, and comments with words like "perhaps," "maybe," "have you considered," etc.?

Thanks.
I don't think we will get what we are looking for in the statement by the Hon. Judge.

The motion filed by DK's lawyers as dismissal of the case due to lack of personal jurisdiction. So, when the Hon. Judge dismissed the case on the above reasoning, she probably wouldn't have commented on the legalities of other factors.

As, residual immunity is available for all times in future, she barred future indictment for official acts.
 

happy

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Can someone please provide the links to the official court documents, so that we can put an end to the speculation, and comments with words like "perhaps," "maybe," "have you considered," etc.?

Thanks.
Perhaps @JMM99 may help us :)
 
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pmaitra

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.... Maybe because you're in America... (I do not even aspire to live or work in America)

Coming back to rule of law, I will accept the US upholds the rule of law, the day they begin to uphold Article 47 of VCCR, and other articles.

This has been explained to you many times, but when one has to explain this thing again and again, it gets annoying.
 

happy

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14-page order

"Ms. Khobragade's motion to dismiss the indictment on the ground of diplomatic immunity is granted. Ms. Khobragade's conditions of bail are terminated, and her bond is exonerated. It is ordered that any open arrest warrants based on this indictment must be vacated," Ms. Scheindlin said in her 14-page order, capping months of unprecedented diplomatic tensions between the U.S. and India.

"On January 9, immediately following the return of the indictment, Ms. Khobragade appeared before the court through counsel and moved to dismiss the case. Because the court lacked jurisdiction over her at that time, and at the time the indictment was returned, the motion must be granted," the judge said ordering that the motion and the case be closed.
US court dismisses Devyani's indictment in visa fraud case - The Hindu

******************************

Its a 14 page order !!! Sure that there will be more juicy tidbits of info in it.
@JMM99 can you please post a copy of this order if you get your hands on it ?

Thank you.
 
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asianobserve

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Coming back to rule of law, I will accept the US upholds the rule of law, the day they begin to uphold Article 47 of VCCR, and other articles.

This has been explained to you many times, but when one has to explain this thing again and again, it gets annoying.

How can you blame America alone when every industrialised country in the World is requiring foreign diplomats to pay their maids in accordance with the minimum wages and treat them in accordance with the labor laws of the host country?

I have shown here before the webpages of the Foreign Affairs Ministries of Netherlands, Canada, New Zealand and Australia that explicitly requires foreign diplomats to comply with their wages and labor laws with respect to the maids that they will officially bring to their countries. I will not repost those web pages anymore.

Anyway, as I said earlier, the only issue settled thus far is the immunity of Khobragade at the time of her indictment which the Court ruled in her favor. The other issues are left open and it seems that as early as now the Office of Bharara is already thinking of next steps.
 

happy

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How can you blame America alone when every industrialised country in the World is requiring foreign diplomats to pay their maids in accordance with the minimum wages and treat them in accordance with the labor laws of the host country?
Not applicable in this case. Reason : both are official employees of the GOI.

I have shown here before the webpages of the Foreign Affairs Ministries of Netherlands, Canada, New Zealand and Australia that explicitly requires foreign diplomats to comply with their wages and labor laws with respect to the maids that they will officially bring to their countries. I will not repost those web pages anymore.
Not needed.

Anyway, as I said earlier, the only issue settled thus far is the immunity of Khobragade at the time of her indictment which the Court ruled in her favor. The other issues are left open and it seems that as early as now the Office of Bharara is already thinking of next steps.
Dream on...if PB keeps up his ante, we know very well how to respond.
 

Free Karma

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On a side note (not sure of posted earlier)
Devyani Khobragade's help, husband cite 'differences', file for divorce | The Indian Express | Page 1

In a new twist to the India-US row involving Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade, the domestic help, who was at the centre of the controversy, and her husband have filed for divorce citing differences between them.
Philip Richard, the husband of Khobragade's help Sangeeta, and their children were flown to New York by the US Embassy in Delhi on trafficking visas days before Khobragade was arrested on charges of visa fraud in December.
Speaking to The Indian Express over phone, Richard said he was disappointed with what he called the way his wife started to lie to him and the couple decided to part ways. They filed for divorce in January, he said, but added that he would continue to defend his wife against Khobragade's allegations.
"She stopped telling me where she is going and with whom. She started to lie. She said something and did just the opposite. But I still support her in the case against Devyani as I know she is not at fault there," Richard said.

The Public Affairs Specialist at the US Attorney's Office, Jennifer Queliz, refused to comment when asked if the separation would impact the case against Khobragade and if the attorney's office was aware of the development.
Breaking the silence of his family since the controversy broke and damaged ties between New Delhi and Washington, Richard repeated the allegations that Sangeeta was ill-treated by the diplomat and that she was forced to approach the immigration office in the US for help after the IFS officer refused to let her return to India.
He claimed Sangeeta's grouse was never with her salary but with the way she was being treated. "Sangeeta often called me complaining about it. It was not the money that she was upset about, but the treatment she got there. Devyani made her work overtime, did not give her enough time to sleep and never let her out of the house," he alleged.
Richard also denied claims that Sangeeta had gone missing from Khobragade's house in New York and surfaced a month later seeking a compromise.
"She did not go missing. She just went to the immigration office to seek assistance. Sangeeta, who spoke to me a night before she went to the immigration office, told me she wants to come back to her family but Devyani is not letting her go. Devyani told Sangeeta that she is bound by the three-year contract that she signed before coming here and cannot go anywhere till that expires. Sangeeta felt suffocated there and had no choice but to sneak out from the house," he said. "Money was never the issue. She could have earned that much even working at a diplomat's house in Delhi."
Richard said he was breaking his family's silence as he was hurt by the way the case had been portrayed in the media. He could not come out with his version earlier as he was a witness and was directed to not interact with the media.
"So much had been written showing Sangeeta in a bad light, about her fabricating the entire story just to extort money out of the Khobragades, but no one knows of how we have suffered as a family. We left our place overnight under threat from the Khobragades," he claimed.
Interesting.
 
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skumar7777

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I just want to correct the widespread misrepresentation of events that I think contributed greatly to the very emotional response in India to this incident.

Definitely, the kids will come to know about the arrest of their mother later on.




No. I'm satisfied with the turn of events. I think looking now at the reasoning of the judge I am now convinced that at least at the time of her indictment Ms. Khobragade was already covered by immunity. What I am not satisfied on the other hand is that it seems that the judge has not answered all the questions on immunity, she only concerned herself with the issue of: whether or not Ms. Khobragade was covered by immunity at the time she was indicted.

So expect another round of legal drama. Mr. Bharara is showing the same dogged tenacity as the nationalist Indians in thsi forum.
Finally enlightenment has dawned on the point of immunity that you argued for 20 pages on this thread 3 months back. In India,we call it "tube light".

Now, you want to somehow link the actions of Preet Bharara as synonymous with the dogged tenacity (argumentative nature?) of Indians? Well, do you not think now that the State Department, driven by all-Americans and not corrupted by ethnic idiosynchrosies :p, would have had a say on this? As usual, you are missing the point.
 
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Compersion

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Ok let say when she left her kid at school when she was arrested still this is not different from what i have said. Kid will know that mom was arrested either way be same.

just because you dont like the way events turn out does not mean you keep thinking negative about all this.
Add to that there is possible description that DK had to make phone calls to arrange help and have someone to care for children - that can be hugely distressing knowing that there might not be anyone one to pick up her children after school and also do the duties of the mother she was doing after the accuser domestic help had left and would have helped with (which the arresting party knew was the case). What would happen if there was no one available to pick up her children after school for her - since she was dropping them off - she was having to do it for a reason and how was she to know she would go to jail.

Also how was she and anyone to know the children did not see and realise immediately what was happening and having 2 hours to make phone calls and coffee does not substitute the possibility of the children finding out and knowing that in fact it was done right outside the school. also how about other students finding out (even afterwards) and humiliating the children at school by way of bullying and that trauma on the children that the mother was arrested outside school after dropping the child. how would children know how to describe hearsay let alone innocent until proven guilty. she must have been in a panic and wondering what and why and thinking of the humiliation in front of her child and for her child safety and on top of that items like "i am having diplomatic immunity there is no need to worry - they cannot arrest me". its another thing if it was done far away from the school but that is in hindsight and i have to say the current judgment is good.

also this is not something to be proud. this whole affair ought to not have happen. please remember that it happened in the first place to a Indian Diplomat. also when things were going well for india in this whole affair it did not show smugness and self-importance after the initial (shock) reaction and acted in a professional and mature way that i am sure the americans will appreciate. also there are issues that need to be explored like why this whole affair happened and how to prevent it from happening again.

finally it would not be efficient and well worth and use of resources of the NY state if the US prosecutors revisit this and file another indictment especially on the same criminal fraud charges. especially with the wordings like "not paid minimum wage" when it ought to be "caused fraud by lying on visa application". there are also many more pertinent issues for NY State and also US prosecutors to focus instead of revisiting a item they had offered plea bargain of misdemeanor (one can look at that to be the final outcome for NY prosecution services and refer to the actual cost of getting there). if they do it really requires a big introspection on the whole USA-India relationship.

also there is the case about the accuser now in the usa after her family was evacuated and her case is still live in India. will India ask for her to return to india and initiate such avenues.

there is also talk about DK looking for damages i am sure people would advise her not to in the larger interests but might be difficult since she has suffered. also the current judgment does not focus on the arrest being valid and properly done but on there being immunity at time of indictment - there is no admittance that what DK did was wrong and what arresting party did was wrong. it is true she was strip searched and it was humiliating and it is impossible for her to return to a time where that never happened. it was physical and for that reason it would be best if this whole affair is laid to rest and the USA and India focus on not having to have such items come up again and only look at having time heal the wounds for her. she having played a role in revitalizing and rejuvenating the India and USA relationship and realities might be a way to look at it. she is also having other issues for example her husband citizenship and also adharsh housing which is unfortunate.

If the USA and India focus on developing procedures and standard that make it clear on how the diplomats can hire help and also when a arrests of either diplomat is imminent (to have better communication), and also have benchmarks on how to have discussion well before the pressure cooker blows its lid that would be efficient and well worth and use of resources that US State can tell NY State on reasons why not to prosecute and re-file the indictment - we are not discussing the chances of its success but its impact on India-USA relationship and the image, reaction and pronunciation it would have.

The overall theme is nothing to be proud of but it is good judgment. The important players made the right moves. I am not sure if it was only due competence but there was a lot of providence.

If the americans had done things in a better way it is possible there would be more tension. and that is the big question this whole affair - why it did not have the footprint of the americans doing it the right way and it leads to the conclusion that it was a mistake and not normal.
 
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Hari Sud

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Maid and her husband and other member of Maid's family who were spirited out of India by M/s Preet Bharara and US STATE Department officials, should be immediately sent back to India. There was no case to allow spiriting out the family. It was case cooked by the two aforementioned personnel's and has been thrown out by courts.

For spiriting out India Citizens, Preet Bharara and US Diplomatic security person, who was expelled by India are to be arrested, strip searched and then jailed pending trial.

My good advice to US, get over this case sooner than later. The new government about to take over in May this year is unlikely to yield any grounds on this subject. Then already ruined US popularity due to bank rolling the Ukraine right wing coup, would receive a further shock. US now needs friends, if India does not follow the suite of condemning Crimean referendum in next few days, a lot more countries will also opt out. Then US would not be able to push a UN resolution condemning Russia and Crimean Parliament.
 
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