Indian Counter Terror Operations Pictures & Discussions

[Defenceanalyst91]

Why BJP govt is allowing paki based extremist organisation to hold rally in Hyderabad?

Dawat-e-Islami public meeting opposed

https://www.thehindu.com/news/citie...mi-public-meeting-opposed/article25844486.ece

Is this group sunni or shia?

 

[Akshay_Fenix]

Why BJP govt is allowing paki based extremist organisation to hold rally in Hyderabad?

Dawat-e-Islami public meeting opposed

https://www.thehindu.com/news/citie...mi-public-meeting-opposed/article25844486.ece

Is this group sunni or shia?

Seems like BJP has formed the government in every state and city......................................................................

Sunni based group being opposed by Sunni based group. Quadri vs Qadri.

 

[Defenceanalyst91]

Seems like BJP has formed the government in every state and city......................................................................

Sunni based group being opposed by Sunni based group. Quadri vs Qadri.

Without MEA approval it cant happen?

 

[Defenceanalyst91]

At the behest of the ISI, how the Bhatkal brothers set up ISIS modules in India

https://www.oneindia.com/india/at-t...edium=tweet-button&utm_campaign=article-tweet

 

[Akshay_Fenix]

Without MEA approval it cant happen?

What country are you from? THEY HAVE ALREADY ESTABLISHED THEMSELVES WITHIN THE COUNTRY!!!

But who am I to tell you, Keep electing the same old fools for more 7 decades.

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

#ArmyCdrNC visited forward posts along LC in #Kupwara & #Baramulla sectors and hinterland formations in the valley; complimented troops for their unwavering dedication, selfless devotion & high morale. @adgpi @PIB_India @SpokespersonMoD

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

#ArmyCdrNC along with #ChinarCorpsCdr reviewed the security situation in forward areas of #Kupwara and #Baramulla District; complimented the troops for their remarkable successes in eliminating #terrorists & commended them for their dedication to duty. @adgpi @NorthernComd_IA

 

[Illusive]

I kinda liked the phatka helmets, it was unique and distinguished, hope they evolve it.

 

[vampyrbladez]

I kinda liked the phatka helmets, it was unique and distinguished, hope they evolve it.

These MKU helmets are lighter and provide better protection. Also new Plate Carriers are a great improvement!

 

[abingdonboy]

I kinda liked the phatka helmets, it was unique and distinguished, hope they evolve it.

In plenty of situations, becuase of the lack of all-round protection and trauma padding, they were bloody lethal!

There’s a reason the IA are the only army ever to
Have fielded them.

These ACHs from MKU are lighter, offer greater ballistic protection from a greater range of threats, have more usability (NVG mounts readily available) and are far more comfortable.

 

[Bleh]

...provide better protection.

Against a pistol or pelted-stone or shrapnel, yes.
Against 7.62 or 5.56 expected to be fired at it, it'll provide no more protection than a cricket helmet, unlike Patka.

 

[rkhanna]

Against a pistol or pelted-stone or shrapnel, yes.
Against 7.62 or 5.56 expected to be fired at it, it'll provide no more protection than a cricket helmet, unlike Patka.

What is the % of soldier deaths (globally) due to headshots ? Vs concussion / sharpnel wounds to the head- including the top ? Vs other body injuries ? The number is extremely small

Does it justify Fielding a heavy / ungainly and inerficient system ?

The MKU fair is the same quality as fielded by the allied forces + israel in the GWOT - why do they find it sufficient ?


The only evolution of the helmet In the west has been modularity. Why ?

 

[Bleh]

What is the % of soldier deaths (globally) due to headshots ? Vs concussion / sharpnel wounds to the head- including the top ? Vs other body injuries ? The number is extremely small

Does it justify Fielding a heavy / ungainly and inerficient system ?

The MKU fair is the same quality as fielded by the allied forces + israel in the GWOT - why do they find it sufficient ?

The only evolution of the helmet In the west has been modularity. Why ?

I get your points... But the reasonable step isn't to replace an actual bulletproof helmet, by one that is NOT just because Westerners use that inferior platform!
The reasonable step is to try & improve India's own, unique (& already superior) design to overcome those shortcomings.

Patka in its present form is a crude jugaad. Some foam in a rim wrapped by a cloth bag!!!

And that's the only reason ACH & whatever cool toys the foreigners are using has any advantage over it.

Patka is modular enough, with potential to add all sorts of comms & goggles by minor modifications.

About top protection... it has no top! Cut off the top of an ACH & stick it to Patka (not literally), maybe side flaps too.

Same goes for its shock absorption & protection against concussion. It has barely any! (Although after what this guy managed to do i'm not sure it's that ineffective)

@Unknowncommando 2 said here, it rocks on the wearer's head.
Well so would ACH if it's inside was like the Patka or bucket, instead of this...

Also it's not cumbersome by choice either.

Only reason it's "heavy / ungainly and inerficient system" beside we chose to keep it so...
If we invested more in the material, then it probably won't be much more than 1.5kg even with top & accessories, from the new 1-1.3kg (↴)

PS: One interesting comment by an user under this link:
"Helmet is preferred because it has the capability to ricochet bullets whereas a patka won't do that."

Maybe that too can be addressed.

Why not slant the sides of Patka this way & build the top like ACH? That'll solve the issue of open top & will provide protection to whole head while being ergonomic.

 

[rkhanna]

I get your points... But the reasonable step isn't to replace an actual bulletproof helmet, by one that is NOT just because Westerners use that inferior platform!
The reasonable step is to try & improve India's own, unique (& already superior) design to overcome those shortcomings.

Patka in its present form is a crude jugaad. Some foam in a rim wrapped by a cloth bag!!!
View attachment 30662
And that's the only reason ACH & whatever cool toys the foreigners are using has any advantage over it.

Patka is modular enough, with potential to add all sorts of comms & goggles by minor modifications.

About top protection... it has no top! Cut off the top of an ACH & stick it to Patka (not literally), maybe side flaps too.



Maybe that too can be addressed.

Fair point But from what I understand that the Patka is WAY to heavy for non urban ops. It is fine for COIN in Kashmir but insufficient for the wider Army duties.

Also provides ZERO protection from concussion and sharpnel from the top. To cover for that means increasing even more weight. So its almost useless for Soldiers inside Vehicles and in an EOD/IED environment. not to mention things like mortar fire etc.

The solution/evolutionary process would mean lighter stronger material - but if we had that then it could simply be molded into a normal helmet design.

The design of the patka (open on the top) is flawed. It will always limit the add on of optics etc. - Also on a already heavy design added weight is a downer.

PATKA was not an innovation in Design - It was Jugad out of desperation. In India we have a habit of making Jugad permanent (like having cut open coke bottles as brass collectors)

The only GOOD thing about the Patka was that it was 100% Indian and served its purpose very well. Now that the poor sodding infantry is getting some money let them get some luxury as well.

PS the new American Helmet ACH is rated to stop 762/39 bullets from 100ms - New material.

 

[Babloo Singh]

Mean while in jannat 288 hoories, decided to flee because of arrival of 4 pigs from kashmir....

 

[Flame Thrower]

248 so far this year. ................................................................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By the latest addition we have crossed 250.

I was wondering if we could do that. I hope a news article comes out that terrorists are being killed like flies.....

 

[Bleh]

All points already addressed in my past reply (how come you missed them all!) except this..

The solution/evolutionary process would mean lighter stronger material - but if we had that then it could simply be molded into a normal helmet design.

Doubt it.
If that were true then present ACH's would be made of same material as Patka (armor band of die-pressed steel) & be bulletproof too. But it present "modern helmets" can neither accomodate inserts, nor are made of materials of equal performance.

Lighter steel alloy... Kevlar/Aramid/BoronCarbide top-cover & side-flap... Better (probably lighter) new cushioning...

Not the present Patka...but heavier bulletproof helmets instead of slightly lighter bullshit ones (admitting i don't accurately know weights of ACH or PASGT models).

 

[Defenceanalyst91]

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[rkhanna]

Patka is modular enough, with potential to add all sorts of comms & goggles by minor modifications.

It not modular at all. You cant add on a Gas mask of NBC kit. And any contraption to add on makes the weight prohibitive. (Feed back from Officers who have been using it for decades) - The design only suits current COIN in Kashmir which is primarily urban MOUT.

About top protection... it has no top! Cut off the top of an ACH & stick it to Patka (not literally), maybe side flaps too.

You cant do that without increasing weight. The Sides of the patka + foam lining + Rail add on contraption have already increased weight where it will decrease combat efficiency

Same goes for its shock absorption & protection against concussion. It has barely any! (Although after what this guy managed to do i'm not sure it's that ineffective)

See above

PATKA is effective but zero protection from above. Yes army has found ways to mount NVG but there are issues with that. As ear protection is absent weight can't be balanced and which results in PATKA changing positions and sometimes covering eyes while running. And of course adding ear protection will eventually increase the weight of PATKA. But our R&D guys never experimented with it's design. What you just wrote is absolutely right but forces thought that it is better to have some protection than nothing on top.

Your reference to unknowns post - Army Baracks and armourours have tried to fiddle with the Patka- Almost all found the design lacking modularity to evolve.

Essentially the patka is a helmet without the top (ie. a large tennis headband) - if the tech is developed for lighter stronger material - the "Normal" helmet design is still king.

The Patka ONLY works because it uses heavier material on the sides and saves weight by keeping the top open. Thats NOT design.

In the longer run - you will have to do a cost benefit of the Patka to protect a small percentage of the body vs overall combat efficiency of the Soldier -

to Summarize -

The Patak Design is actually crap - It works only because of stronger material around the crown of the heard. If lighter material is produced in India then the conventional Design will be used

Currently the new helmets being inducted will provide 9mm protection from point blank range and 762/39 protection from 500m away. - This is the COMPROMISE between head protection and Soldiers Combat efficiency.




Hope thats clearer

 

[rkhanna]

All points already addressed in my past reply (how come you missed them all!) except this..


Doubt it.
If that were true then present ACH's would be made of same material as Patka (armor band of die-pressed steel) & be bulletproof too. But it present "modern helmets" can neither accomodate inserts, nor are made of materials of equal performance.

Lighter steel alloy... Kevlar/Aramid/BoronCarbide top-cover & side-flap... Better (probably lighter) new cushioning...

Not the present Patka...but heavier bulletproof helmets instead of slightly lighter bullshit ones (admitting i don't accurately know weights of ACH or PASGT models).

Our soldiers in war time are going to be runing up and down mountains with normal kit already in 50+kgs, in deserts and in Jungles. They dont need the helmet to be 100% bullet proof. they need a balance between protection and weight