Indian Ballistic Missile Defense System

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Did China give you an affidavit on stamped paper that they will never target us? Especially when they have several IRBMs and MRBMs in Tibet pointed towards us.

Explain to me how is the cost benefit analysis hold up for China to attack a big country like India? Have Chinese ever shown their willingness to die in vain like Pakistan?

You think nuclear weapon is their blackmail??? hahaha. Their real blackmail is threatening us with the consequences of a successful Indian strike on their facilities - Remember Syria and Europe. Do we have a solution for that?

It is other way around. Syrian refugees to Europe is happening due to EU's unwillingness to use brutal force. This is mainly to ensure that their oil supply is not cut off. But, if India attacks Pakistan, India can as well forget oil supply. Then there is no need to hold back. War is not about just destroying infrastructure but about enemies themselves.

Syria war was a result of the oil greed of west. Hence they had to keep quiet. Situation is different with India

 

[Craigs]

They have lots of money for that particular reason. And more over the military has secret funds which are never disclosed and they are in billions too. Another thing is that to reduce their so called operation costs they have developed the nasr so many in number. This is how they will try to hit the close to border towns and secondly also they have babur which is nuclear capable and can be launched from submarine from torpedo tube.

BPI won't work against NASR, Babur or SLCMs. I believe I have already covered all these scenarios in my reply. I think at this point you are simply spinning.

 

[Craigs]

Explain to me how is the cost benefit analysis hold up for China to attack a big country like India? Have Chinese ever shown their willingness to die in vain like Pakistan?

It is other way around. Syrian refugees to Europe is happening due to EU's unwillingness to use brutal force. This is mainly to ensure that their oil supply is not cut off. But, if India attacks Pakistan, India can as well forget oil supply. Then there is no need to hold back. War is not about just destroying infrastructure but about enemies themselves.

Syria war was a result of the oil greed of west. Hence they had to keep quiet. Situation is different with India

What is the solution to millions of Malsi Jihadi Yahoos streaming through over border asking to be "refugees"? The world is awash with Oil and in a few years time if we play our cards right our dependence on it will reduce substantially - Oil minister Dharmendra Pradhan hinted as much in his veiled warning to OPEC.

 

[Craigs]

Explain to me how is the cost benefit analysis hold up for China to attack a big country like India? Have Chinese ever shown their willingness to die in vain like Pakistan?

Explain to me why you believe China is a rational player? - If the Chinese are willing to challenge and defy the USA then yes they do have a death wish. Especially if they were doing it when they were much poorer then they are now. Read up on Choisin reservoir battle.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

What is the solution to millions of Malsi Jihadi Yahoos streaming through over border asking to be "refugees"? The world is awash with Oil and in a few years time if we play our cards right our dependence on it will reduce substantially - Oil minister Dharmendra Pradhan hinted as much in his veiled warning to OPEC.

Who told you that India is obliged to be soft? As of now, India is buying time and hence being soft. But India already had a strong dialogue with Hasina. Zia's arrest etc were all dictated by Modi. India is not being hard for now. But in case of war, then don't expect such mercy. Remember Myanmar for example.

Explain to me why you believe China is a rational player? - If the Chinese are willing to challenge and defy the USA then yes they do have a death wish. Especially if they were doing it when they were much poorer then they are now. Read up on Choisin reservoir battle.

China never makes statements like Iran. China just pushes out USA by its own manufacturing might. USA is the one who is making noises. China is having bigger manufacturing than USA.Hence China is actually the rightful leader of world industries, not USA. I don't see how that is a death wish. USA has already catapulted to CHina. If CHina releases the 3 trillion dollar debt of US treasuries, USA dollar will crash in no time.

I don't see a reason why CHinese would attack India with deadly missiles. Chinese have much bigger cities than India and they will be more worried about them getting destroyed.

 

[Craigs]

Who told you that India is obliged to be soft? As of now, India is buying time and hence being soft. But India already had a strong dialogue with Hasina. Zia's arrest etc were all dictated by Modi. India is not being hard for now. But in case of war, then don't expect such mercy. Remember Myanmar for example.

Have we sent back **all** the refugees who came in before and during the 1972 war? Have we sent back all the Rohingyas? Have we reestablished the Kashmiri Pandits in Kashmir?

Please keep your cuckoo logic to yourself. If those yahoos show up at our border the UPA constituents will start salivating at the promising votebank. They will drive up to the border as the welcoming committee.

 

[Craigs]

China never makes statements like Iran. China just pushes out USA by its own manufacturing might. USA is the one who is making noises. China is having bigger manufacturing than USA.Hence China is actually the rightful leader of world industries, not USA. I don't see how that is a death wish. USA has already catapulted to CHina. If CHina releases the 3 trillion dollar debt of US treasuries, USA dollar will crash in no time.

I don't see a reason why CHinese would attack India with deadly missiles. Chinese have much bigger cities than India and they will be more worried about them getting destroyed.

Do they have missiles pointed at us? Did Doklam happen? Did they go to war with us in the past? Do they still hold our territory illegally? Yes, yes, yes and yes - ergo we need as much assets as we can muster to frighten them suitably. Only then will there be detente between us.

If you have a crystal ball then please use it to let us know when you are billionaire thanks.

 

[Craigs]

It wouldn't matter, even if they are working against shaheens that would do. Point is to have a sure shot kill technology tested.

If we are to design BPI then we have to track the TELs anyway to give us enough reaction time. Why can't we just destroy the Shaheen TELs before they launch anything? Why wait for the missile to be launched before showing our technical prowess??

 

[Craigs]

They won't be disclosing the locations. Only a proper int input may assure where they are deployed. What happened in Kargil war was the war was only a limited war but then they started moving their missiles which were not even ready.

How can you conduct such a strike when you don't have a proper UAV to do it. And their airforce still intact?

All these questions answered. Please rewind and read earlier comments. Why didn't they launch their missiles during Kargil? How did we intercept Musharaff's phone conversation?

 

[Craigs]

The reason is their delivery systems were not ready. And see Pakistan has also developed it's mechanism I am sure which is known to the Ind govt. But then again, is there anything wrong if you achieve this technology of sure shot kill during PBI, it would give the message even at experimental stage. It will only add to the skills and talent.

BPI is not sure shot. There is no such sure shot thing. BPI is expensive and wasteful.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Have we sent back **all** the refugees who came in before and during the 1972 war? Have we sent back all the Rohingyas? Have we reestablished the Kashmiri Pandits in Kashmir?

Please keep your cuckoo logic to yourself. If those yahoos show up at our border the UPA constituents will start salivating at the promising votebank. They will drive up to the border as the welcoming committee.

90% of refugees of 1971 war were hindus. Let us not speak of sending anyone back. Next, India was ruled by foreign agents due to extreme cowardice of Hindus. If you have people like Vajpayee who was a horrible coward, you can't expect anything to be done. Until you start respecting militancy you are not going to get any results.

Do they have missiles pointed at us? Did Doklam happen? Did they go to war with us in the past? Do they still hold our territory illegally? Yes, yes, yes and yes - ergo we need as much assets as we can muster to frighten them suitably. Only then will there be detente between us.

If you have a crystal ball then please use it to let us know when you are billionaire thanks.

I am not saying that India must not be ready for all eventuality. I am only saying that the chances CHinese behave irrationally is quite low. They hold on to Aksai Chin only. But the catch here is that Aksai Chin was with China even earlier than 1962 war Even Raja Hari Singh did not have Aksai Chin under his control. He only had it on his map. Other than that, Chinese don't hold on to any territory. The PoK gifted to China does not count as China has an agreement that the area will be renegotiated once Kashmir dispute is resolved.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

The reason is their delivery systems were not ready. And see Pakistan has also developed it's mechanism of storing its missiles and keeping them away from Indian visuals, I am sure which is known to the Ind govt. But then again, is there anything wrong if you achieve this technology of sure shot kill during BpI, it would give the message even at experimental stage. It will only add to the skills and talent and moral of Indian forces. The current BMD is not a sure shot kill.

BPI is extremely inaccurate and most likely to fail. It is hugely wasteful as a result. As I and many others have been saying, the ballistic missile also has the speed limitation of the Anti-Ballistic missile. In the initial stage, the missile flies straight up before turning towards its target one it reaches high enough altitude. BPI will have to cover the same vertical distance along with additional horizontal distance with a lag time of launch. Unless Pakistan uses hopeless quality of rocket fuel which won't accelerate quickly while Indian rocket fuel is of much higher quality, it is not possible to intercept. It is seen that Pakistani missiles don't have guidance accuracy for target but do have enough acceleration. Hence it will be very difficult to hit it.

Brahmos does not accelerate instantly either. Brahmos also has initial booster of about 500kg to give it initial acceleration

 

[Craigs]

India has not conducted any such experiments so we can't say that. It may be no applicable for US against Russia but as I said there is no harm in testing this technology.

You should go through this. It advocates that although for US it may be tough but if we are neighbors then it would work well.

https://www.nap.edu/read/13189/chapter/4#40

As previously noted, the committee’s analysis focused on assessing U.S. boost-phase defense systems against ballistic missile threats from Iran and North Korea. Figure 2-3 illustrates the dilemma for all boost-phase defense systems (i.e., the pressing intercept timelines for both solid and liquid threat booster rockets) and specifically displays this dilemma for what most boost-phase defense advocates would call the less onerous of the two ballistic missile defense problems—that is, defense against ICBMs launched from North Korea). Moreover, advocates for boost-phase defense would argue that because of North Korea’s relatively small size and proximity to a coastal boundary, Aegis ships along with military aircraft could get fairly close to the threat boost trajectories in order to minimize the reach required. In Figure 2-3, it is assumed that the threat was detected at an altitude above the cloud cover, which we would assume to be 30 sec after launch of a notional solid-propellant missile and 45 sec after launch of a notional liquid-propellant missile.

In understanding the challenges of boost-phase defense of the U.S. homeland and Canada, it is helpful to begin by looking at the ground tracks of trajectories on the rotating Earth from launch to impact and where an ICBM payload lands as a function of where its boost is terminated. Figure 2-4 shows the ground tracks of ICBMs launched from Iran and North Korea to reach the United States.10

Why don't we just experiment on interstellar travel by exploiting warps in the space time continuum. That at least sounds way more cooler than testing a technology which we will never use just to do what exactly "gain Pakistan's respect"?

 

[Craigs]

I have quoted a thesis on BPI I guess you did not read it.

Why should India have to validate that thesis?

 

[Craigs]

It has been experimented. Should go through this. First
https://www.nap.edu/read/13189/chapter/4#40



Because it is based on experiments as I said earlier if US has planned such things for NoKo this means they had this technology and if India can try it's hand developing on it's own then is there a problem?
We have thousand of million of dollars for haj and other non required subsidies for lazy arses, and suddenly there is no money for security.

As I said before, isn't it cheaper to demonstrate destruction of a launch TEL than BPI? Isn't it cheaper to demonstrate real time TEL tracking? Don't tell me all the geosynchronous satellites we have in space don't have any dual use payloads. Why demonstrate anything at all - just tell Pakistan if we so much as detect any attempt at mating warheads to missiles we will start taking out their Command and control. Bakchodi se kaam banti hai to paise kyun karch karna bhai?

 

[Enquirer]

It has been experimented. Should go through this. First
https://www.nap.edu/read/13189/chapter/4#40



Because it is based on experiments as I said earlier if US has planned such things for NoKo this means they had this technology and if India can try it's hand developing on it's own then is there a problem?
We have thousand of million of dollars for haj and other non required subsidies for lazy arses, and suddenly there is no money for security.

Dude! Pakistan can comfortably target most major Indian cities from launch sites that are about 500kms from the border!!
How exactly will you intercept those missile in their boost phase??

It happens to most fanboys -they'll stumble upon some concept and keep harping that India should build that! It's useless!
A more robust defense would be to build mid-course interceptors (in addition to the terminal phase interceptors already in development).

 

[Craigs]

Because this will not happen. You did not go through my previous post. Where mentioned about Kargil war. No one will be crossing the LOC and IB from Indian side for ariel strike and no one will advocate the launch of any strike on Pakistani soil via brahmos. This is because of fear of escalation. This will give ample of time to Pakis to move it's TEL and launcher out and carry out strike. This will happen and you know that too.

Are you saying that after Pakistan launches one missile (or a bunch of missiles) we will continue on our path of restraint? - I call BS on that. The reason they did not launch their missiles during Kargil is because though they had missiles - it was not mated to the warheads. You have to remember we are not the only ones monitoring Pakistan, everyone from here to the Atlantic Ocean and beyond is monitoring Pakistan. Do you think Israel is going to wait for them to mate their warheads, fire it, establish that it is flying towards India and then give an all clear?

What if India manages to infiltrate their Missile command and control and reprogram missiles to fly West instead of East? Do you think Iran, Israel, Europe are going to take that chance? Do you think India is going to announce this in advance?

The moment Pakistan commences towards mating the warheads a ton of shit is going to fall on them - from every direction. Nobody is going to allow them to launch anything - if they manage to hoodwink everyone and launch it then kudos to them and in that scenario BPI won't do us any good. It is either terminal phase or nothing. Mid course interception is technically possible but still quite expensive to field in any reasonable numbers.

This is the main reason they are now talking about tactical nukes and nasr. Just so that they retain a semblance of independence with their nuclear arsenal. Nasr does not threaten anyone besides India. So even if kept in mated condition nobody will complain.

 

[Craigs]

This was exactly happening during Kargil war. We were waiting for them to launch the strike first as per the rules of engagement we have set for ourselves. Did any plane go there to take out those TEL which were being forwarded with the missiles. None Then what you going to do if same situation arises? We will wait till they launch it.

I don't think you understood my reply. Please read it again - they cannot launch anything until they mate their warheads.

 

[Craigs]

My point is what was India doing when they were trying to ready the delivery systems?

India like everyone else was waiting for them to mate their warheads and missiles.

 

[Craigs]

Oh that's the contradiction. Why India did not go for arial strike to hit their already stored delivery system and warhead stockpiles where they were taken. This will happen again!

What contradiction? I already stated the rubicon as far as India is concerned. Kargil was and remains a covert war - Pakistan has never admitted to its involvement. We cannot take out anything in Pakistan unless there is war between us and them - real war or a sign of imminent real war. Attacking enemy ships is a clear sign of war. Intruding enemy airspace is a clear sign of war. Mating of warheads is a clear sign of war.

Simply moving rockets here and there is not a sign of war. Even if they did move their missiles in firing position - unless they mate actual warheads it cannot be considered an act of war.