Indian Ballistic Missile Defense System

[HariPrasad-1]

Congrats to all................ looks like we are on the cutting edge of BMD tech.

The real deal will be AD1 and AD2. This is an interceptor which intercepts the missile bellow the atmosphere. It can protect limited theater. FOr long range missiles, you need to intercept them at very high altitude which PDV does. However, PDV is very slow. We need something like Arrow 3 to Intercept it.

 

[Chinmoy]

Guys check and tell me what exactly going on this test of Dec 2017.

Although it is believed AAD to be packed with a proximity fuse for taking out a incoming warhead. But there are few things which makes me believe otherwise regarding it.

These are the first two snaps of AAD approaching the target.

This is the point of impact or should I say where the fuse activates as per belief.

Now the point of hit. This could be a proximity kill or Kinetic. Nothing is clear as of now. Lets have a look at snaps after this.

Now in these two snaps we could see two distinct trails after the blast. One traveling down is for sure the warhead residue and the one traveling up could be assumed as the AAD. Now if it would have been a proximity fuse, would there have been the upward movement of AAD after impact? We could have seen debris flying across every direction instead of the distinct upward movement.

 

[Flame Thrower]

Although it is believed AAD to be packed with a proximity fuse for taking out a incoming warhead. But there are few things which makes me believe otherwise regarding it.

View attachment 26804

View attachment 26805
These are the first two snaps of AAD approaching the target.

View attachment 26806

This is the point of impact or should I say where the fuse activates as per belief.

View attachment 26807

Now the point of hit. This could be a proximity kill or Kinetic. Nothing is clear as of now. Lets have a look at snaps after this.

View attachment 26808

View attachment 26809

Now in these two snaps we could see two distinct trails after the blast. One traveling down is for sure the warhead residue and the one traveling up could be assumed as the AAD. Now if it would have been a proximity fuse, would there have been the upward movement of AAD after impact? We could have seen debris flying across every direction instead of the distinct upward movement.

There is no second object.......

We only saw one(@ 45 sec) and that too from a downward angle(like a mortor/artillery shell). and then it blew as it came to a designated point. There is no image of the colliding object.

Colliding object cannot be see only if it is carrying the camera, but as soon as it impacts, the video should end, it didn't happen

I feel this to be some laser test.

 

[Enquirer]

Although it is believed AAD to be packed with a proximity fuse for taking out a incoming warhead. But there are few things which makes me believe otherwise regarding it.

View attachment 26804

View attachment 26805
These are the first two snaps of AAD approaching the target.

View attachment 26806

This is the point of impact or should I say where the fuse activates as per belief.

View attachment 26807

Now the point of hit. This could be a proximity kill or Kinetic. Nothing is clear as of now. Lets have a look at snaps after this.

View attachment 26808

View attachment 26809

Now in these two snaps we could see two distinct trails after the blast. One traveling down is for sure the warhead residue and the one traveling up could be assumed as the AAD. Now if it would have been a proximity fuse, would there have been the upward movement of AAD after impact? We could have seen debris flying across every direction instead of the distinct upward movement.

Even if it had proximity fuze, the explosive quantity is mostly to scatter debris/shrapnel close to the target. It may not be completely enough to stop the momentum of the upward rocket.
Unless the main body of AAD collides directly with the target, one could expect the AAD rocket to continue in its approximate trajectory, albeit in a diminished velocity (which it might still be smoldering).
Even the Kinetic Kill Vehicles scatter debris, albeit with a much smaller explosive!

 

[Chinmoy]

There is no second object.......

We only saw one(@ 45 sec) and that too from a downward angle(like a mortor/artillery shell). and then it blew as it came to a designated point. There is no image of the colliding object.

Colliding object cannot be see only if it is carrying the camera, but as soon as it impacts, the video should end, it didn't happen

I feel this to be some laser test.

This video was from Dec 2017 test. The cross is the incoming Prithvi warhead and the one like Mortar is the AAD.

The interceptor missile, which has the capacity of destroying enemy ballistic missiles at an altitude of 30 km, achieved direct hit and destroyed the incoming ballistic missile, a modified version of Prithvi-II over Bay of Bengal. The DRDO termed it a ‘brilliant’ mission and success in a row.

https://kalingatv.com/latestnews/supersonic-interceptor-missile-test-fired-kalam-island/

This video is made by land based optical tracker, not by any onboard camera.

 

[Kshithij]

Although it is believed AAD to be packed with a proximity fuse for taking out a incoming warhead. But there are few things which makes me believe otherwise regarding it.

View attachment 26804

View attachment 26805
These are the first two snaps of AAD approaching the target.

View attachment 26806

This is the point of impact or should I say where the fuse activates as per belief.

View attachment 26807

Now the point of hit. This could be a proximity kill or Kinetic. Nothing is clear as of now. Lets have a look at snaps after this.

View attachment 26808

View attachment 26809

Now in these two snaps we could see two distinct trails after the blast. One traveling down is for sure the warhead residue and the one traveling up could be assumed as the AAD. Now if it would have been a proximity fuse, would there have been the upward movement of AAD after impact? We could have seen debris flying across every direction instead of the distinct upward movement.

Are you sure that it is not simulated tests? In simulation, the incoming warhead is only an imagination in the electronic minds of the system. You simply disconnect the radar and instead feed in the simulation which will then be used to fired the missile. Since you know the exact coordinates at which your simulations are, you will know to confirm whether the proximity blast happened just in the nick of time or not.

 

[Chinmoy]

Are you sure that it is not simulated tests? In simulation, the incoming warhead is only an imagination in the electronic minds of the system. You simply disconnect the radar and instead feed in the simulation which will then be used to fired the missile. Since you know the exact coordinates at which your simulations are, you will know to confirm whether the proximity blast happened just in the nick of time or not.

I've already quoted the source which said that it has been done against live target.

 

[Arihant Roy]

We are yet to intercept a RV or a RV separating from the mother missile in any of our BMD tests.
So far we have intercepted the entire missile or the 2nd stage of the target missile specially designed for BMD tests.

Although we have made good progress, We still have some distance to go when it comes to our BMD program.

 

[sayareakd]

We are yet to intercept a RV or a RV separating from the mother missile in any of our BMD tests.
So far we have intercepted the entire missile or the 2nd stage of the target missile specially designed for BMD tests.

Although we have made good progress, We still have some distance to go when it comes to our BMD program.

Already tested with RV. Almost entirely new version of Prithvi was made to test one of the BMD.

 

[Enquirer]

Bhai you missed the point. Target missile going up and AAD hitting the same from bottom up. Means it was intercepted at booster phase. This mean this is going to border.:biggrin2::biggrin2::bounce::bounce:

How do you deduce that it's being intercepted in the boost phase?
AAD hitting from bottom up is true - AAD fragments continue to the top-left side (of the screen). But you can also clearly see that the destroyed target is 'falling down'. If the target were in upwards motion (as in boost phase) at the time of impact then it would continue a little while in the upward direction before plummeting.

 

[sayareakd]

How do you deduce that it's being intercepted in the boost phase?
AAD hitting from bottom up is true - AAD fragments continue to the top-left side (of the screen). But you can also clearly see that the destroyed target is 'falling down'. If the target were in upwards motion (as in boost phase) at the time of impact then it would continue a little while in the upward direction before plummeting.

Its going down, degree on the number is going less. You are right.....oops. please ignore my post

 

[Arihant Roy]

Already tested with RV. Almost entirely new version of Prithvi was made to test one of the BMD.

When?

Yes a new Prithvi was specifically designed for the BMD. It had a solid second stage and it was this stage that the AAD intercepted. A RV would be smaller and a much more demanding target to hit owing to its smaller cross section than the second stage.

The solid second stage can emulate a solid fuelled MRBM in terms of apogee and terminal velocity but it can't act as a RV.

 

[Enquirer]

When?

Yes a new Prithvi was specifically designed for the BMD. It had a solid second stage and it was this stage that the AAD intercepted. A RV would be smaller and a much more demanding target to hit owing to its smaller cross section than the second stage.

The solid second stage can emulate a solid fuelled MRBM in terms of apogee and terminal velocity but it can't act as a RV.

The size of the RV is not that important. The RV by definition has 'reentered' the atmosphere - which heats up the vehicle to such extreme temperature that it's quite easily discernable to the heat-seeker against the clear sky background.
The so called 'second state' or anything that houses the RV will typically not survive the atmospheric reentry and will disintegrate.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Pakistan and china both have MRBMs so is it possible to use ABM to hit their missile in the boosting stage if let's say Pakistan tries to put down one of our satellite in the sky?

The first stage boost phase lasts about 1-2 minutes. If Pakistan launches its missile from interior parts, about 100km interior, it will be difficult for Indian missiles to travel 100km horizontal distance in addition to vertical distance in the limited time available. It is impossible to hit during boosting phase as don't have enough time

 

[Enquirer]

The first stage boost phase lasts about 1-2 minutes. If Pakistan launches its missile from interior parts, about 100km interior, it will be difficult for Indian missiles to travel 100km horizontal distance in addition to vertical distance in the limited time available. It is impossible to hit during boosting phase as don't have enough time

Correct!
Boost phase interception is only practical when you already have a heavy military presence around a small suspected BM launch area - like North Korea.
China case is a no-go. Pakistan's case "may" be doable if the missiles are air launched from aircraft at 15 kms altitude - even then I highly doubt a tight net is possible.
Air borne lasers would be ideal if the tech materializes.

 

[Enquirer]

So here also we can't do anything?? I mean what good ABM Defence is for then?

I guess, they can only be able to take down our satellite if it's flying over the Indian air space or Pakistani airspace. If IN deploys a pair of ABM system on Navy ships then it is possible to cover all the spots in Pakistan. Including Balochistan.
-----------------------------------

And since a satellite may stay for only few minutes over the Pak they will launch diagonally to catch the satellite.

scenario 1 ( for sub synchronous)

when a satellite enters from west over Pakistan they will either launch it from balochistan before it enters the Pak air space to catch the satellite or they will launch it diagonally from Sindh when satellite enters the Pak air space.

In any case they can't launch it from somewhere in middle.

scenario 2( geo stationary)

this one can be taken down but because the missile have to go beyond 200 kms in apogee and to reach the satellite well they have to launch it from somewhere very close to sea shore as per the orbits they are placed in. India can immediately track the missile from ships and hit it above arabian sea in booster phase.

So I believe this way you can protect sats from Pakis.

You put in too many things there. None of which have much merit.
I don't think Pakistan has the capability to hit satellites of any kind!
Their ballistic missiles don't have the accuracy even in the sub 1000 m when hitting the stationary ground!
Hitting a fast moving satellite requires tracking of satellites AND very sensitive seekers - which Pak doesn't have.
Ship launched missile hitting Pak launched BMs in boost phase is almost impossible!

Geo Stationary satellites are at 35,000+ kms altitude; low perigee is for geo synchronous orbits.

 

[Enquirer]

How about China then? Can India protect it's satellite from the Chinese?
So you can't hit a satellite at 35000km orbit? I doubt. Any how I am more concerned about sun synchronous and sub synchronous ones.

Right now, all countries with low orbit satellites are vulnerable to anti-satellite missiles (if someone ever uses them).
There's some talk about satellites being equipped with sensors to detect approaching missiles and attempt to dodge them.
But right now Indian satellites are exposed to Chinese anti-satellite missiles.........just like Indian cities are exposed to Chinese Ballistic missiles.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

How about China then? Can India protect it's satellite from the Chinese?
So you can't hit a satellite at 35000km orbit? I doubt. Any how I am more concerned about sun synchronous and sub synchronous ones.

No one can protect LEO satellites. Many countries are capable of striking such satellites. USA, China, Russia, India can strike down such satellites of all countries.

 

[Enquirer]

We can't protect our cities because of geography close to two nuclear power We can't protect our satellites because all countries have capability to bring them down.

Why does ABM system even exist then? Mere waste of money and time then.

Who said ABM system exists? Does it exist in India?

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

We can't protect our cities because of geography close to two nuclear power We can't protect our satellites because all countries have capability to bring them down.

Why does ABM system even exist then? Mere waste of money and time then.

Since which date did BMD start existing to protect satellites? You are inventing your own stuff here. BMD never was and never will be used to protect satellites.

By the way, who told you that BMD can't save the cities? That is what BMD is for - to reduce the damage to cities by destroying incoming missiles at it.