Indian Ballistic Missile Defense System

[Jameson Emoni]

Did China give you an affidavit on stamped paper that they will never target us? Especially when they have several IRBMs and MRBMs in Tibet pointed towards us.

I get the feeling that some posters on this forum are pretend Indians.

 

[Craigs]

It never remained a covert war any more and after the news was out that Pak is preparing it's warhead there was no question of any covertness. They would have launched it and we would have waited to let them first declare they are in war. This is why I say, India would never cross into Pakistani airspace to conduct arial strike.

Dude I think you have some trouble comprehending the English language. Please reread my last few posts - I don't know how old you are but I was there in India when Kargil happened and was following it everyday. Pakistan has till date not acknowledged any involvement - even after we killed serving Pakistani personnel. They used a paramilitary force not their regular army. The propaganda from their side was so strong that many countries believed the boundary between India and Pakistan in the Kargil region was not fixed and we were intruding on their territory. In such a scenario any aggressive action on our without clear provocation would mean the blame for any misfortune falls on us. So we had to be careful.

Besides when Kargil happened the only operational missile we had was Prithvi - not even Prithvi 2. Agni, Agni 2 was still experimental, No Brahmos the aggrement was just signed the missile was not inducted, No Sukhois, No Pinaka (still experimental), No LRTR, No BFSR, No Swathi - nothing and also a shitty economy teetering on collapse, No SAR satellites, Not enough leo sats, geo sats etc. No GPS. Only DPSA jaguars with no radars.

What kind of surgical strike could we have done?

 

[Craigs]

I have understood your each and every post very well, and now kindly tell me how would you interpret our NFU policy with the logic your have presented that we will take out their TEL and other stockpiles even before they are airborne.

Now you are answering exactly what I mentioned, that under cover of these covert ops like Kargil they would prepare their warheads and fix them on the delivery systems and launch it.

1. Either there will be diplomatic pressure on Pakistan to dismantle it
2. India will redy it's own stockpile for the day along with ABMs

Under these conditions do you think, India which never crossed the LOC would conduct air strike? I highly doubt this.

Our NFU policy has already been re-interpreted successfully by Shri Manohar Parrikar to mention that we won't wait for our enemy to launch any attack on us. Even if we detect any attempt at preparing a nuclear strike we will consider it as First Strike and after that we will respond as required. He floated it as a thought exercise but there was no blowback from any other country in the world ergo, I think now it is official policy.

Realistically speaking there is only one enemy we can monitor to such an extent and that is Pakistan.

 

[Enquirer]

Pakistan with total width of 700km can be covered with BPI.

Really?
You do realize that a missile that has travelled 700kms and is still at less than its peak altitude and propelling with full power is essentially a missile with 1500+ kms range? Do you get the logic?
That's essentially an Agni I or Agni II missile! But that's not all, this missile has to travel 700 kms laterally in a time less than the boost phase duration, less reaction time.
An MRBM would have less time in boost phase than an ICBM, right? But let's be over generous and say it has 3 minutes of boost phase! And the ABM has reacted to the missile launch within 30 seconds! So, your interceptor missile has to travel 700kms in less than 2.5 minutes - which means travel at an average speed of 16800 kms/hr in the endo-atmospheric region. Which missile travels at Mach 14 within the atmosphere?? Do you know the kind of drag it would encounter & the amount of fuel it would need to expend? Essentially it will be the size of a GSLV launcher with multiple strap on boosters to achieve the rapid acceleration!

Please use common sense!

 

[Craigs]

Really?
You do realize that a missile that has travelled 700kms and is still at less than its peak altitude and propelling with full power is essentially a missile with 1500+ kms range? Do you get the logic?
That's essentially an Agni I or Agni II missile! But that's not all, this missile has to travel 700 kms laterally in a time less than the boost phase duration, less reaction time.
An MRBM would have less time in boost phase than an ICBM, right? But let's be over generous and say it has 3 minutes of boost phase! And the ABM has reacted to the missile launch within 30 seconds! So, your interceptor missile has to travel 700kms in less than 2.5 minutes - which means travel at an average speed of 16800 kms/hr in the endo-atmospheric region. Which missile travels at Mach 14 within the atmosphere?? Do you know the kind of drag it would encounter & the amount of fuel it would need to expend? Essentially it will be the size of a GSLV launcher with multiple strap on boosters to achieve the rapid acceleration!

Please use common sense!

I guess he is wet dreaming about some dual scramjet powered ultra hypersonic missile which will take out the aggressor missile right after launch. Not going to happen. The only thing that may work is DEWs and even those are useless beyond 100-150 kms as the energy gets dissipated fast. DEWs make excellent terminal phase interceptors though.

 

[Enquirer]

I guess he is wet dreaming about some dual scramjet powered ultra hypersonic missile which will take out the aggressor missile right after launch. Not going to happen. The only thing that may work is DEWs and even those are useless beyond 100-150 kms as the energy gets dissipated fast. DEWs make excellent terminal phase interceptors though.

Although, something that survived atmospheric reentry would be hard to 'burn' off with a laser

 

[no smoking]

The purpose of ABM is to increase the cost of the adversary to target us. ABM is used in terminal stage. It is used to protect our cities from IRBMs and in future ICBMs. Even if it is 80% efficient then we have now seeded a doubt in our adversary about the effectiveness of their arsenal. To remove doubt they have to expand their arsenal to ensure total destruction. This is too expensive even for China forget about Pakistan.

On the contrast, it is too expensive for India to build a ABM system against over 100 missiles. Until today, the cost of each BMD missile is much higher than ballistic missiles.

 

[Craigs]

On the contrast, it is too expensive for India to build a ABM system against over 100 missiles. Until today, the cost of each BMD missile is much higher than ballistic missiles.

Huh.... pray tell us what is the cost of each BMD missile in the Indian context.

 

[no smoking]

Huh.... pray tell us what is the cost of each BMD missile in the Indian context.

I am just telling you a general principle which applies to every country since the technological standard of interceptor is far more superior than normal ballistic missile.

 

[Enquirer]

I am just telling you a general principle which applies to every country since the technological standard of interceptor is far more superior than normal ballistic missile.

Sure a BM doesn't have a seeker, but carries something even more expensive - nuclear warhead! The Ops sec for the BMs is also much more expensive than for the interceptor missiles.
All put together BM program will easily be 100 times more expensive than interceptor missiles!

 

[Craigs]

Sure a BM doesn't have a seeker, but carries something even more expensive - nuclear warhead! The Ops sec for the BMs is also much more expensive than for the interceptor missiles.
All put together BM program will easily be 100 times more expensive than interceptor missiles!

Some BMs do have seekers too e.g. DF-21 when used in an anti-shipping role.

 

[Enquirer]

Some BMs do have seekers too e.g. DF-21 when used in an anti-shipping role.

Dude! That's such an outlier!
It must have been fairly obvious what the context of the conversation was about. Please don't derail it.

 

[Craigs]

Although, something that survived atmospheric reentry would be hard to 'burn' off with a laser

I said they make excellent terminal phase interceptors just did not specify whose terminal phase :biggrin2:. They are excellent against cruise missiles, MBRLs (like Nasr), even shells. Even SRBMs (like hatf, abdali ghaznavi etc) can be targeted in a pinch.

 

[Kshithij]

I have had a discussion on this on some other forum and there was a document every one was showing. I also said exactly that we won't be waiting to get the hit first, but most of the community and leadership believes that India would get the hit first and then India will strike back.
Yes, you are absolutely correct that preparation for strike will be considered as strike but somehow I still doubt that people in leadership believe in the old logic.

See there is no particular law when you go to the extent of nuclear war or a war has initiated this is why I say, because our leadership is flawed, we will never carry out preemptive strike on Pakistanis to kill their TEL and what so ever.

There is no law in warfare. If Indian leadership are good people, then they will act preemptively. If it is filled with foreign agents like congress, they will do as bad as possible

Americans have developed such systems but it went covert after that and there is no new news about it. Some say they dropped the idea other say just after test they closed the program.

You can use shourya as kill weapon for this purpose with some enhancements.

BPI is extremely difficult. Mid course intercept is another thing and can be done. USA has no need for boost phase intercept but needs mid course intercept. USA has developed GMD for that.

India too can build mid course intercept to take out missiles in exo atmosphere. Boost phase is a bit extreme thinking. You are not going to get the required acceleration initially to hit the accelerating missile. On emay have to use missile with big boosters like space vehicle. Just take time and do the calcilcalcu of tr distance it needs to cover. It is difficult due to physics

 

[no smoking]

Sure a BM doesn't have a seeker, but carries something even more expensive - nuclear warhead! The Ops sec for the BMs is also much more expensive than for the interceptor missiles.
All put together BM program will easily be 100 times more expensive than interceptor missiles!

Firstly, the incoming missiles are not necessarily carrying nuclear war head. More likely the first batch comes will be those with conventional warhead which is aiming to the BMD system;
Secondly, each missile will be able carry at least 2 heavy decoys;
Thirdly, unlike BM, BMD is heavily relying on complicated detecting, tracking system, etc, these systems are not only expensive but also vulnerable.

 

[Enquirer]

Firstly, the incoming missiles are not necessarily carrying nuclear war head. More likely the first batch comes will be those with conventional warhead which is aiming to the BMD system;
Secondly, each missile will be able carry at least 2 heavy decoys;
Thirdly, unlike BM, BMD is heavily relying on complicated detecting, tracking system, etc, these systems are not only expensive but also vulnerable.

Read my post carefully!
Both in terms of individual missile cost & the "program" cost, Nuclear/BM program easily trumps BMD.

Also, you just made up all that stuff in your post - it doesn't belong to any countries' strike doctrine!

First "batch" of BM's are duds? Did you even think through the logic before you posted? You just negated all the advantages of a first strike!
Once a barrage of BMs are launched towards opposite territory there will be an instant 'nuclear' retaliation. Because the receiving end would counter-launch nuclear missiles either suspecting the incoming BMs to be nuclear tipped or knowing that you're the smart general whose second barrage will be nuclear tipped BMs!
Your strategy is like pulling the trigger on an unloaded gun with the hope that your enemy will exhaust all his bullets firing at your bullet proof vest! Once they see your (empty) gun, your head will be blown before you attempt to load your gun!
You either take the first shot or be dead for the stupidity of brandishing an empty gun!

Also, countries like Pakistan will have only a handful of BMs(that won't be wasted in a foolish gamble). while there won't be a dearth of cheap BMD missiles (eventually) with India (which are smaller & produced in large quantities)!

You should do some research on how much a country spends on their entire nuclear & BM program; compare that with the budget for BMD program and then comment. Typing by the seat of your pants is not beneficial to the forum.

 

[Indibomber]

Guys check and tell me what exactly going on this test of Dec 2017.

Bhai porki was trying to escape DRDO ne GPL maar di..:biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:

 

[Indibomber]

I don't see any reason China would use ballistic missiles on India. China has no big reason to start an all out war with Inia

if you have any trust on our current NSA, he mentioned that Chinis approached Americans for control of IOR trade route for TP which they will need to destroy India. In return choochas will let US own Pacific and Atlantic trade routes besides continued support for WTO. Two powers centres.. Americans refused and China started string of pearls.

 

[Indibomber]

Why is India going after NASAMS 2 when already hai Aakash system and going for S-400?

 

[Craigs]

Why is India going after NASAMS 2 when already hai Aakash system and going for S-400?

Don't you watch any Indian gangster movies? This is hafta to the global cop USA.