Indian Ballistic Missile Defense System

[charlie]

Russian answer to western missile defence

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUPKQi4Nbc0

 

[Twinblade]

Already being done.

MRSAM = 70km (left)
ERSAM (MRSAM+Booster) = 120km (right)

MRSAM is ground based version, LRSAM is the current 70 km naval version.

 

[arnabmit]

That's what I said in reply to the query "Maybe a land version of barak 8 will be developed with the israelis?"

MRSAM is ground based version, LRSAM is the current 70 km naval version.

 

[Twinblade]

AIM FOR MISSILES TO HIT TARGET
Thursday, 18 July 2013 | Pravin Sawhney | in Oped
The Defence Research and Development Organisation has been doing some good work in the development of missile technology capabilities. But it does not have to go to town patting its back and allowing China and Pakistan have an early peek into our progress

Defence Research and Development Organisation chief Avinash Chander recently said that phase-I of the indigenous ballistic missile defence programme is over and that the missile shield is ready for the protection of New Delhi, the capital of India. Phase-I is for interception of 2,000km range enemy missiles, and phase-II is for killing 5,000km range missiles. This implies that the BMD technology-demonstrator phase is over and the DRDO would ask for additional massive funds to deploy the actual weapon system. The spectacular news has reached China and Pakistan; Chinese scholars are comparing it with their own indigenous BMD programme, while Pakistan would use the development to further justify an increase in its production of ballistic and cruise missiles, and fissile material.

A BMD should seek to intercept an enemy missile simultaneously in exo-atmosphere — or outside atmosphere — (called PAD interceptor by the DRDO) and endo-atmosphere — inside atmosphere (called AAD interceptor by the DRDO) as high as possible so that if one interceptor misses the target, the other should be able to kill the latter. The height of 30km is the dividing line between atmosphere and space; below 30km is the atmosphere and above 30km is space — two medium with different characteristics. The other issue concerns the nuclear warhead. As a general rule, the nuclear chain reaction, which then cannot be controlled, gets activated at about 10km above the earth. If the nuclear warhead gets a direct hit before it drops to this low height, its nuclear core will not get activated and it will not burst. Thus, an interceptor missile with conventional warhead should only be used if it has 100 per cent accuracy to hit the bull's eye. The preferred option, therefore, is interceptor with nuclear warhead to kill a hostile nuclear missile ideally in exo-atmosphere. In this case, a nuclear blast which is extremely powerful, and not a direct hit, on the enemy's nuclear warhead will suffice to inactivate the hostile missile and the nuclear debris will remain suspended in space. In short, it should be a nuclear warhead for a nuclear warhead kill.

Against this backdrop, is phase-I of the BMD really over? No. Not according to what recently retired DRDO chief VK Saraswat had told me in February 2010. "The phase-I activity is to increase the altitude of interception as much as possible within the limits of the design of the interceptor. Now we are aiming to increase the altitude of PAD to more than 100km. For this, we have made certain modifications in the interceptor. This year, we will test the modified PAD (called PDV) at an altitude of over 100km for a 2,000km range missile."

So far, the DRDO has done four successful interceptor tests, all separately, two each of PAD and AAD: PAD at an altitude of 48km and 80km and AAD at 19km and 15km. The crucial PDV test which was to be done in 2010 has still not been conducted.

Regarding the PDV test, Mr Saraswat had told me, "The modified PAD will be PDV and it will have two changes. The first stage of PAD, which is a liquid motor, will be replaced by a solid motor stage with high energy levels. The second stage 'kill vehicle' has also been modified for higher interception accuracy. Earlier, in PAD, we had an RF (radio frequency) seeker. Now we are introducing Imaging Infra-Red (IIR) seeker also with higher accuracy. PDV will also have a 'divert thruster' on the second stage to bring better accuracy and controllability. The PDV will be one meter longer than PAD." Thus, according to Mr Saraswat, it will be irresponsible to freeze BMD phase-I without a successful PDV interceptor test.

But why has the critical PDV test been inordinately delayed and why is the DRDO rushed to declare phase-I programme as completed?

The PDV test has not been done because the DRDO does not have the high energy propellant needed for the interceptor to reach 100km height, and the expected outside help has not come. For 100km height, the burn rate of the propellant in the PDV rocket motor should be minimum 70mm per second; what the DRDO has is propellant with one-seventh of this desired burn rate. The DRDO had expected help from Israel, amongst the friendly nations, but so far it does not seem to have succeeded. The reason why the DRDO has declared phase-I as over is because its funds have finished and it needs more money. According to Mr Saraswat, "Our commitment is to complete the flight trials of the phase-I interceptor for the 2,000km range missile by 2011. I will have all the needed systems for BMD phase-I by 2013."

This is not all. All four DRDO interceptions have been done against slow-speed Prithvi missiles. Pakistan does not have this category of missiles. The need for the DRDO is to demonstrate interception of Agni-2 missile with 2,000km range. Moreover, the DRDO, using conventional warhead interceptors, has remained silent on whether the interceptions were indeed direct hits. And importantly, it is not clear if India has the capability to produce small nuclear warheads to fit on slender PAD and AAD interceptors.

Alongside the enormous work that still need to be done on the interceptors, other questions remain: what about the acquisition of the target, the incoming hostile missile?

At present, the DRDO only has land-based long range tracking radar (LRTR) of limited capability for detection and acquisition of targets: the Israeli Green Pine 600km range radar, being called Swordfish. The DRDO has been trying to increase its range to 1,500km with Israeli help. Indications are that it is work in progress. The eventual answer lies is using space (satellites) and air for acquisition. This is at least four to five years away. Moreover, as BMD phase-II will be a continuation of work on phase-I, it is important that the first phase should not be declared completed prematurely.

Interceptors for phase-II will need more agility, higher energy and higher speed. For example, the present AAD has speed between Mach 4 and 5, which is being called high supersonic. The next step AAD-1 will need speeds of Mach 6 to 8, which is completely hypersonic. Moreover, the endo-atmospheric interceptor will require to achieve 30km altitude. Even as the DRDO continues work on the design of phase-II interceptors, it should focus on acquisition of propellant for the PDV test, and putting the command and control systems in place. This is fundamental to the BMD programme.

And importantly, the DRDO should curb the urge to seek publicity on this programme which Pakistan and China will be eager to exploit to their advantage. With so much at stake, should the DRDO have declared BMD phase-I as over?



(The writer is a former Indian Army officer and now Editor, FORCE, a newsmagazine on national security)

Aim for missiles to hit target

 

[LalTopi]

Aim for missiles to hit target

The PDV test has not been done because the DRDO does not have the high energy propellant needed for the interceptor to reach 100km height, and the expected outside help has not come. For 100km height, the burn rate of the propellant in the PDV rocket motor should be minimum 70mm per second; what the DRDO has is propellant with one-seventh of this desired burn rate. The DRDO had expected help from Israel, amongst the friendly nations, but so far it does not seem to have succeeded. The reason why the DRDO has declared phase-I as over is because its funds have finished and it needs more money. According to Mr Saraswat, "Our commitment is to complete the flight trials of the phase-I interceptor for the 2,000km range missile by 2011. I will have all the needed systems for BMD phase-I by 2013."

I wonder of the hand of Uncle Sam is here in putting pressure on the Isrealis to stop any help in the further development of the BMD.
Hope the Isrealis tell the yanks to get lost.

 

[sayareakd]

^^^ Isreali help was in Radar department only and now we have gone past that with our own radar which has more range then Isreali radar. Once DRDO Awac become operation we can track the missile RV from air.

Fire control radar is from another country. But we dont need to worry much about radars our guys are doing good job just pump more money in this.if you want to track ICBM.

 

[sayareakd]

Aim for missiles to hit target

Army officer has no idea what he is saying.

PAD has thrust diverters i posted that pic many time, so does have A3 and upwards.

Greenpine sold to India has range of 600km. Lol

Missile fuel cant take it above 100 km. He should check A4 it went 900km.A3 only goes 350 km.

Maybe at the end he should have said we should buy US BMD

 

[Twinblade]

Army officer has no idea what he is saying.

PAD has thrust diverters i posted that pic many time, so does have A3 and upwards.

Greenpine sold to India has range of 600km. Lol

Missile fuel cant take it above 100 km. He should check A4 it went 900km.A3 only goes 350 km.

Maybe at the end he should have said we should buy US BMD

That's why I highlighted the important part. Remove wheat from chaff, process, store

 

[LalTopi]

Army officer has no idea what he is saying.

PAD has thrust diverters i posted that pic many time, so does have A3 and upwards.

Greenpine sold to India has range of 600km. Lol

Missile fuel cant take it above 100 km. He should check A4 it went 900km.A3 only goes 350 km.

Maybe at the end he should have said we should buy US BMD

But the statement about Isreal and the missile propellant is quite explicit. I don't think the army officer would have made that up unless he was told it by DRDO. that's not to say that he was fed misinformation, as this is the first I have heard this Israeli involvement in PDV.

 

[Guest]

Army officer has no idea what he is saying.

PAD has thrust diverters i posted that pic many time, so does have A3 and upwards.

Greenpine sold to India has range of 600km. Lol

Missile fuel cant take it above 100 km. He should check A4 it went 900km.A3 only goes 350 km.

Maybe at the end he should have said we should buy US BMD

I guess he is in a better place than you to have the idea about what he says-

He is doing a constrictive criticism in a polite manner-- the issues highlighted are valid- and DRDO rather than a marketing agency should focus more on the hard work as some other agencies like the ISRO for example- or BARC-

Coming to the propellant part- for anti-ballistic missile to be economically feasible its cost should be a fraction of the missile it intercepts- the lesser the better- you cannot have a A4/A3 intercepting a Shaheen 2 or any other missile for that matter- the cost would be extremely high as for each shaheen you would have 20 or so(take the number as an example the actual number can only be assumed after doing mathematical calculations)
interceptors waiting since you cannot predict its path and prepare with say a couple of interceptors and also there are a number of targets it can take-
Hence the missile has to be economical hence smaller size-higher speed-better propellant required-

Buying a BMD is not a solution every one knows that-

 

[Eastman]

PAD is supposed to have a gimbal ball nozzle for end game interception

Divert thruster should be something like this

I support the concept of nuclear warhead option in case of a war scenario or defeat a barrage attack.

 

[sayareakd]

I guess he is in a better place than you to have the idea about what he says-

He is doing a constrictive criticism in a polite manner-- the issues highlighted are valid- and DRDO rather than a marketing agency should focus more on the hard work as some other agencies like the ISRO for example- or BARC-

Coming to the propellant part- for anti-ballistic missile to be economically feasible its cost should be a fraction of the missile it intercepts- the lesser the better- you cannot have a A4/A3 intercepting a Shaheen 2 or any other missile for that matter- the cost would be extremely high as for each shaheen you would have 20 or so(take the number as an example the actual number can only be assumed after doing mathematical calculations)
interceptors waiting since you cannot predict its path and prepare with say a couple of interceptors and also there are a number of targets it can take-
Hence the missile has to be economical hence smaller size-higher speed-better propellant required-

Buying a BMD is not a solution every one knows that-

BMD does not have to economic, as one nuke over our land and it will be waste land for years, so cost will be very high if missile get into BMD and take out target, economical BMD will be useless............:taunt1:

 

[sayareakd]

PAD is supposed to have a gimbal ball nozzle for end game interception

Divert thruster should be something like this

I support the concept of nuclear warhead option in case of a war scenario or defeat a barrage attack.

check the kill vehicle

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_8gXQngrI7x8/S3qUdm6S-SI/AAAAAAAAAKA/QKa64MAjMwA/s1600/15022010876.jpg

even this says so

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_8gXQngrI7x8/S3rIuX_zffI/AAAAAAAAAQA/q3l6yvVgjZA/s1600/15022010818.jpg

 

[LalTopi]

Army officer has no idea what he is saying.

PAD has thrust diverters i posted that pic many time, so does have A3 and upwards.

Greenpine sold to India has range of 600km. Lol

Missile fuel cant take it above 100 km. He should check A4 it went 900km.A3 only goes 350 km.

Maybe at the end he should have said we should buy US BMD

Dear Saya. please read the article carefully. The army officer is not saying that PAD did not have divert thrusters. he is referring to two changes and divert thrusters are not one of them. He is saying that PDV will have divert thrusters just like PAD. So please do not ridicule the whole article on this misconception.

Regarding the PDV test, Mr Saraswat had told me, "The modified PAD will be PDV and it will have two changes. The first stage of PAD, which is a liquid motor, will be replaced by a solid motor stage with high energy levels. The second stage 'kill vehicle' has also been modified for higher interception accuracy. Earlier, in PAD, we had an RF (radio frequency) seeker. Now we are introducing Imaging Infra-Red (IIR) seeker also with higher accuracy. PDV will also have a 'divert thruster' on the second stage to bring better accuracy and controllability. The PDV will be one meter longer than PAD." Thus, according to Mr Saraswat, it will be irresponsible to freeze BMD phase-I without a successful PDV interceptor test.

 

[LalTopi]

BMD does not have to economic, as one nuke over our land and it will be waste land for years, so cost will be very high if missile get into BMD and take out target, economical BMD will be useless............:taunt1:

Agree that the economics should take into account the asset you are protecting. Mumbai is worth much more than the one or two Shaheens attacking it.

Also the value of BMD is just not in the event of war, but to stop the nuclear blackmail that Pakistan is using to launch terrorist attacks without the fear of a conventional reprisal. If we can protect our major cities and strategic assets, whilst Pakistan cannot theirs, then the nuclear blackmail is over as we can launch a conventional counter attack without fear of annihilation.

 

[Guest]

BMD does not have to economic, as one nuke over our land and it will be waste land for years, so cost will be very high if missile get into BMD and take out target, economical BMD will be useless............:taunt1:

I was implying economical in the sense we can afford them in the 1st case-

An interceptor missile costing several times higher than the intruding missile would be death blow to military's defense budget- and specially for a country like India-

Also I must imply here that- current propellant used by DRDO might take missiles to greater heights like in case of a A4 or A3- but it would severely reduce its maneuverability and acceleration(dimension of the vehicle)- in current context AAD is fine as an interceptor missile but PAD is not enough- we must have all solid fuel missile as is the case with PDV- which is not tested yet- hence the 1st stage cannot be declared complete- induction is a far off thing- Please keep in mind that we are just talking about the kill vehicle here- the electronic part also cannot be said as complete for induction yet-

I like Mr- Chander he is perhaps the best man we can have chief of DRDO as of now- he speaks facts and is much better than jingoistic- Saraswat- only If we see what he is trying to say we would realize where we are talking his declarations in a wrong sense-

 

[sayareakd]

Dear Saya. please read the article carefully. The army officer is not saying that PAD did not have divert thrusters. he is referring to two changes and divert thrusters are not one of them. He is saying that PDV will have divert thrusters just like PAD. So please do not ridicule the whole article on this misconception.

looks like i screw up.............

 

[LalTopi]

looks like i screw up.............

It's difficult until you read it really carefully. the Army officer was quoting Saraswat verbatim, and where Saraswat would have paused its difficult to capture in written form.

I only read it because its the first time we have an inkling of what the delay is. it's really worrying about the technological dependency on a foreign nation, albeit Isreal is a friendly one. The article was written in July, hopefully things have progressed since then..

 

[sayareakd]

hope they try testing AAD on Brahmos just to see if it works.

 

[sayareakd]

earlier it was uncle now Israeli too want their share of our BMD pie.

India, Israel to Build Anti-Missile System | Defense News | defensenews.com

NEW DELHI — India and Israel will jointly build an integrated anti-missile system to be deployed against Chinese nuclear and conventional missiles.

The new program, which does not yet have a name, has been approved by the Indian Defence Ministry, with a contract expected to be signed in the next six months, according to a scientist with the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) at Defexpo.

The proposed missile defense program will see participation by Rafael and Israel Aircraft Industries in partnership with DRDO and state-owned Bharat Dynamics Limited (BDL) and Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL).

The system will integrate the homegrown Prithvi air defense system, which is ready for induction next year, with the mobile detection radar being built by BEL in partnership with IAI. In addition, DRDO and BEL will work with IAI and Rafael for this program.

"The proposed missile defense program will be a network of air defense systems and radars from India and Israel," a Rafael executive said at Defexpo, which runs from Thursday to Sunday.

The executive added that additional missile systems, both short range and medium range, will be tailor-made for use by India.

Indian MoD sources said talks have been underway on the integrated missile defense program for over six months, but gave no details on the program's fate.

The Rafael executive said his company has offered to build a dedicated C4I system for the program. India does not yet have a C4I system for missile defense threats, the executive added. â– 

we are moving to PDV and AD1 and AD2 development and they are still on PAD................:taunt1: